Not really surprised, especially now that Marvel's headlining Spider-Man as the "world's greatest superhero". Given that according to the Web of Life or whatever, Spider-Man is the one being who most embodies heroism and defines the term hero, I can see him being the catalyst to set things "right". I'm not thrilled by this, but I can live with it.
Thank f'n god it's not Hulk or Wolverine, though.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
When the positive is that maybe the Phoenix will usher in a new dawn of the mutant race, and the negative is that it will destroy all of existence, I don't really need to do anything to negate the positives because the negative already so complete dwarfs any positive effect.Jean isn't the only Dark Phoenix, nor is the the Dark Phoenix Saga the only time that the Dark Phoenix persona had control over Jean. The Dark Phoenix is merely one side of the Phoenix Force that represents the inherent conflict created from the duality in being a cosmic force of both Destruction and Rebirth. It's not insane, it's merely a force of nature. The Dark Phoenix is a real concern for all of the Phoenix hosts... it's the reason why the Shi'ar have task forces dedicated to whipping out hosts and their entire extended family to prevent anyone who could possibly become the Phoenix.
Because Cable speaks with the same authority as an abstract cosmic being? facepalm
Cable said that Hope is the Phoenix, and she is, she is an Avatar of the Phoenix. Death stated that Jean Grey [b]was
the Phoenix and expressly mentioned that she not merely another host or avatar of the force. There is no equity or common ground between those two declarations. Outside of a potential plot shield being the alleged "Mutant Messiah" is really inconsequential to the characters involved in this event. It's not some concert fact or anything, it's just something the took to calling her because by happenstance she happened to be the first mutant born post M-Day and she can create activate new mutants. None of the characters in this event read press releases from Joe Q, so don't equate what you know and what has been said on the internet with what the actual characters know about Hope.Clearly you have no concept of the motivations or personalities of these characters, nor do you seem to have any memory of X-Men history. Wolverine didn't get "soft", and boiling down Schism to "children should not fight/kill" mentality is an extreme over simplification of the real issue. Frankly it has more to do with an oversight in the leadership of the X-Men then it does with children fighting, and Schism is not the first time Wolverine has brought up the issue. The real issue is that Cyclops doesn't acknowledge that most of the students are not cut out for field duty. Wolverine has expressed his displeasure in having in having green mutants out in the field several times, and when other characters have tried to justify it by saying that the originally X-Men roster were all teenagers, he pointed out that they were all hand picked by Xavier for the express purpose of creating the X-Men... which is a far cry from the open door, all mutants are welcome to fight on the front lines police Cyclops has implemented. The fact is that many of the students, the vast majority of them in fact, are not cut out to be X-Men and instead of being a leader and giving Hope and the Five Lights an order Cyclops gave children the authority to make a decision that none of they were emotionally more mentally qualified to make... and then pretended like the decision mattered. The reality is that Wolverine likely wouldn't have a problem with Hope being in combat, he knows she was trained by Cable and is capable, it's the rest of the students he is concerned about, and know he is merely toeing a hardline to set an example, rather than have to justify exceptions to the rules. None of that has any real baring on the fact that Wolverine is a killer... and aside from a small handful of other characters he is the only person in this event that it would be in character for him to kill a child for the greater good. [/B]
* and you completely ignore the possibility of Hope controlling PF and everything will be alright? you see, one thing i see right in Cap's plan is to put Hope in "protective custody" to a place faraway from Earth, but what completely destroyed this idea is the way he egotistically enforced his decision on Cyke, when they can peacefully sit it out for coffee in a matter of minutes...
* which is the "Wolverine" mentality, right? to kill the potential host of the PF... oh, the PF does not go insane, but the host... the PF is at it is... but the PF is a newbie in human emotions, as per Marvel history... that's one of the reasons why PF responded to Jean's anguish and cry for help in the first place... but when the human emotion was toyed and perverted by Mastermind (albeit, Cyke got defeated in the astral plane / psychic duel), the host went insane, triggering the Dark PF... had the PF and its host was not abused, Jean would be perfectly alright with a huge boost to her physical and mental powers...
* okay, so can you blame Scott for believing in his son (and his ex-wife, and his daughter)? put yourself in his shoes... does Scott has this instant access to cosmic beings and demand to tell whether Hope is the Phoenix (and messiah) or not? this is maybe the perfect example why Scott said in Schism that, "... leading with certainty into an uncertain future doesn't require sight. It requires vision. It requires holding on. And no matter what happens, never letting go..." and i was just taking on what drives Scott to continue this so-called "madness", when most of the mutants are clearly under his command...
* it is not what i know about Hope, but what i read in comics about Hope... you admitted Cable said that Hope is the Phoenix, but you are now equating that what Cable really means was, she was just an avatar... you are not the "comic authority", srank...
* Schism is not just about the X-men leadership... it's about the children (teen X-men) fighting and killing... it's either you're Wolverine fanboy now, or a Cyclops hater... the tables are turned, and Cyke is still wrong? look, srank... when Cyke ordered Idie to take out the enemies, it saved dozens of lives... it's a parallelism of Wolverine taking out Hope to save Earth... but you ignored that fact, right? the Five Lights are young, but the original five are teens too, and they freakin' took on the more experienced Avengers early on, but they were still teens then, remember? what's the difference? Xavier trained them... and that's what Cyke planned to do --- to train the young X-men, and that's Wolverine's job... but where was he? in the bar drinking beer... had it not been that, it should Logan taking on the enemies, not Idie... this is not about Cyke not acknowledging that some students are not for field duty, no! they are the X-men! they are heroes... they sworn to save and protect those who fear and despises them... once an X-men, you're in for a helluva fight, and it's stupid to take that out of the equation... in fact, at the end of Schism, Scott is clearly the one who's right...
Updated list:
Avenger wins:
Black Panther beats Storm (Uncanny X-Men #13)
Black Widow beats Dr.Nemesis (Uncanny X-Men #13) *Happened off-panel
Captain America beats Cyclops (AvX #2)
Captain America beats Gambit (AvX Versus #2/AvX #4/Wolverine & the X-Men #11)
Captain America beats Warpath (AvX #4)
Iron Man beats Magneto (AvX Versus #1)
Iron Man droid beats Cannonball (X-Men Legacy #267)
Iron Man droid beats Frenzy (X-Men Legacy #267)
Iron Man droid beats Gambit (X-Men Legacy #267)
Iron Man droid beats Mimic (X-Men Legacy #267)
Iron Man droid beats Shadowcat (X-Men Legacy #267)
Rulk beats Colossnaut (Uncanny X-Men #11 & AvX #2) *Clossnaut lost intentionally
Rulk beats Psylocke (Uncanny X-Men #13)
She Hulk beats Hepzibah (Uncanny X-Men #12)
Thing beats Namor (AvX Versus #1)
Thing beats Sunspot (Uncanny X-Men #12)
X-Men Wins:
Colossnaut beats Spider-Man (AvX Versus #2)
Dr.Nemesis beats Quicksilver (AvX #2)
Hope beats Wolverine (AvX #2)
Magik beats Dr.Strange (AvX #2-3)
Namor beats Cage (Uncanny X-Men #12)
Rogue beats Falcon (X-Men Legacy #267)
Rogue beats Iron Man droid (X-Men Legacy #267)
Rogue beats Moon Knight (X-Men Legacy #267) *MK lost intentionally
Rogue beats She Hulk (X-Men Legacy #267)
Stalemates:
Captain America vs. Wolverine (AvX #3)
Moon Knight vs. Gambit (X-Men Legacy #267)
Namor vs. Thing (Uncanny X-Men #12)
Other fights:
Dangers beats Pixie (Uncanny X-Men #13)
Dangers beats Primal (Uncanny X-Men #13)
Dangers beats Transonic (Uncanny X-Men #13)
Dangers beats Velocidad (Uncanny X-Men #13)
Sebastian Shaw beats Hercules (Avengers Academy #30) *Mortal form
Sebastian Shaw beats Madison Jeffries/Box (Avengers Academy #30)
Sebastian Shaw beats Tigress (Avengers Academy #30)
Only fights that are conclusive or have some substance (Rather then just one panel and not shown again) is mentioned in the above list.
I'm going to spoiler a bit to keep on the discussion because I just find it too funny:
Spoiler:
Let me start by saying that I don't care and I will never care for this event unless it ends with Kang dropping Doctor Doom holding a busted Infinity Guantlet from the skies and stomping both X-men and Avengers with an army of Guardian of the Galaxy characters, but this comment regarding the "Phoenix Five" its just so true:It wasn't cool back when every character got Hulk powers in Hulked Out Heroes, it wasn't cool when they got Spider Power in Spider Island, nor when they got Thor powers in Fear Itself. I don't have lots of hope for Phoenix powers on AvX.
The statement is so full of truth that I can't keep myself from passing it -I read it in another forum-. Anyways, I'm impressed of how Marvel does poor events even with Namor and Ironfist playing important parts in them, I guess it must be like the Defenders which I haven't been following despite those cool characters. Poor Marvel, seriously, to say the Mayan arc on Rulk's book seemed more appealing than this event was already something.
Little clarification: Spider Island was one of the better events of the last few years, even for a non-Spidey reader like me.
Updated list:
Avenger wins:
Black Panther beats Storm (Uncanny X-Men #13)
Black Widow beats Dr.Nemesis (Uncanny X-Men #13) *Happened off-panel
Captain America beats Cyclops (AvX #2)
Captain America beats Gambit (AvX Versus #2/AvX #4/Wolverine & the X-Men #11)
Captain America beats Warpath (AvX #4)
Iron Man beats Magneto (AvX Versus #1)
Iron Man droid beats Cannonball (X-Men Legacy #267)
Iron Man droid beats Frenzy (X-Men Legacy #267)
Iron Man droid beats Gambit (X-Men Legacy #267)
Iron Man droid beats Mimic (X-Men Legacy #267)
Iron Man droid beats Shadowcat (X-Men Legacy #267)
Rulk beats Colossnaut (Uncanny X-Men #11 & AvX #2) *Colossnaut lost intentionally
Rulk beats Psylocke (Uncanny X-Men #13)
She Hulk beats Hepzibah (Uncanny X-Men #12)
Thing beats Namor (AvX Versus #1)
Thing beats Sunspot (Uncanny X-Men #12)
X-Men Wins:
Colossnaut beats Spider-Man (AvX Versus #2) *Spider-Man just left
Colossnaut beats Thing (AvX Versus #3)
Dr.Nemesis beats Quicksilver (AvX #2)
Hope beats Wolverine (AvX #2)
Magik beats Dr.Strange (AvX #2-3)
Magik beats Black Widow (AvX Versus #3)
Namor beats Cage (Uncanny X-Men #12)
Rogue beats Falcon (X-Men Legacy #267)
Rogue beats Iron Man droid (X-Men Legacy #267)
Rogue beats Moon Knight (X-Men Legacy #267) *MK lost intentionally
Rogue beats She Hulk (X-Men Legacy #267)
Stalemates:
Captain America vs. Wolverine (AvX #3)
Moon Knight vs. Gambit (X-Men Legacy #267)
Namor vs. Thing (Uncanny X-Men #12)
Rulk vs Colossnaut (AvX Versus #3)
Other fights:
Dangers beats Pixie (Uncanny X-Men #13)
Dangers beats Primal (Uncanny X-Men #13)
Dangers beats Transonic (Uncanny X-Men #13)
Dangers beats Velocidad (Uncanny X-Men #13)
Sebastian Shaw beats Hercules (Avengers Academy #30) *Mortal form
Sebastian Shaw beats Madison Jeffries/Box (Avengers Academy #30)
Sebastian Shaw beats Tigress (Avengers Academy #30)
Only fights that are conclusive or have some substance (Rather then just one panel and not shown again) is mentioned in the above list.
haha
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=37927
Brubaker mentioned that issues one through five, which he termed "'AvX's' first act," would normally be considered an entire event by most readers, and the remaining issues would be two years' worth of stories for most publishers. Fraction added that issue five is so big, it feels like an ending, but it's not -- "There's seven more issues after that."
Issue #5 seemed like an ending?