Indeed, thanks for the support DS. I can't believe we're still having this discussion.
Originally posted by ares834
I’m still unsure why you believe that is so different from a regular drain. By its very nature shouldn’t being drained of the Force result in one being cut off from it? After all, upon being drained completely there would be no force energy left inside the entity which should constitute them being cut off from it.
Hopefully I've answered this to your satisfaction on the last page.
No, some of what you've provided indicates the presence of a Force bond prior to the drain. There is no known Force bond between Nihilus and Katarr, Nihilus and Telos, or Kreia and the Malachor assassins and I see no reason to assume that there was, particularly when the description of the attack from every other source is commensurate with a conventional Force drain, albeit on a much larger or (in Kreia's case) precise scale.
Originally posted by Nephthys
How much sense does it make for it to be the same thing as Force Drain when any Jedi in the game can learn Force Drain whenever the hell they want? Why would the Exile need to be told about an ability that you can use whenever you want?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Is this the same basic description for Force Drain as well:'As much as one may use the Force to bolster the wills and strengths of others, the reverse is possible, though not often used. Instead of sending one's will through connections in the Force, instead such connections are drawn upon, fed upon, and drained completely.'
It makes sense, yes. Really, I’m unsure what else force drain would be. Bascially, all I see here is someone feeding of someone else's force energy through a connection in the Force. That hardly seems uniqe to "giga-drain"...
Originally posted by Nephthys
You might notice that theres a slight difference. Nihilus and the Exile also are shown using the technique in ways beyond the conventional draining of the Force. For example at the very start of the game Atton notes on more than one occasion that he can't seem to not do whatever you want to do:
My understanding was that was not due to “giga-drain” but due to the inherent nature of the Exile and Nihilus being Wounds in the Force. Kreia, for example, is never shown to do anything similar despite the fact that she uses the same technique.
Why would it not? Kriea was the one who taught Nihilus to use the power to new heights and when she uses the technique she claims it's the Exile's or soemthing like that.
Can't really think of anything else off the top of my head though.
Originally posted by ares834
Game mechanics.
Nihilus and the Exiles technique is directly said to be a special technique, one which 'cannot be taught, only learnt through instinct.' I doubt all Sith who used Force Drain learnt in in that way.
Originally posted by ares834
It makes sense, yes. Really, I’m unsure what else force drain would be. Bascially, all I see here is someone feeding of someone else's force energy through a connection in the Force. That hardly seems uniqe to "giga-drain"...
At no other point is there a mention of Force bonds and Force drain.
Originally posted by ares834
My understanding was that was not due to “giga-drain” but due to the inherent nature of the Exile and Nihilus being Wounds in the Force. Kreia, for example, is never shown to do anything similar despite the fact that she uses the same technique.
No, the technique the Sith use is the same thing that the Exile uses to grow stronger:
“It is the teaching of these new Sith, to feed on others, on other Force Sensitives. They are symptomatic of the wound in the Force. You are a breach that must be closed. You transmit your pain, your suffering through the Force.”
However, you are right that it is due to their nature as Wounds in the Force. Because they are not attached to the Force themselves they constantly use the technique to leech it from other and dominate those around them. But it is the same technique:
'"The sect of assassins that chase you feed on the Force…what [Nihilus] does is simply the pinnacle of what they could achieve, in time. And that is why they—and their techniques—must be wiped out."
"Those Sith assassins can sense their prey through the Force—it is like a hunger. They feed… and grow stronger… when they are near Force Sensitives. The stronger their prey is in the Force, the deadlier they become."
Here is the Exile actually using the technique:
2.30.
'It is something the Sith, the assassins who stalk use can do - it is of the dark side, the ability to feed on life, on the Force, the closer one comes to it. It makes them stronger, for a time.
Not all techniques are something that is learned through practise and training - this is something instinctual, born from experience.
It is a way that they fill the hollow places where the Force used to be."
That last bit sounds familiar, huh?
No one can argue Kotor 2 like I can. I am simply the best there is.
'“What if other Jedi went to war as you did, suffered the same events, and emerged as you did. What if there was a crucible that trained such Jedi to consume and kill?”
“For you, Malachor was that crucible.”
“What's worse, is these Sith that we face... I fear that they have learned the lesson of Malachor all too well. It is what allows them to prey on Force users, to become stronger when Force Sensitives are near.”
“Somehow, they have learned their hunger from you. And so you have brought about the end of the Jedi, and perhaps all the knowledge of the Force.”'
Malachor gave birth to many monsters.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Nihilus and the Exiles technique is directly said to be a special technique, one which 'cannot be taught, only learnt through instinct.' I doubt all Sith who used Force Drain learnt in in that way.
But how many Sith actually use drain anyway? I can think of very few besides those in KotOR 2 and those being Malak and Palpatine.
Originally posted by Nephthys
At no other point is there a mention of Force bonds and Force drain.
But connections don’t have to mean force bonds. And according to Obi-Wan, the Lucas cipher, the force “binds the galaxy together” so the connections are already in place.
Originally posted by Nephthys
No, the technique the Sith use is the same thing that the Exile uses to grow stronger:
I never denied that. What I disagreed with is that using force drain somehow makes everyone around you your *****. Nihilus and the Exile do that innately, but a normal non-wound such as Kriea would need to do so consciously. Heck, consider Palpatine he appears to be using force drain on Byss and all the inhabitants become his slaves. That sounds eerily similar to what happened to those aboard the Ravager.
Originally posted by Nephthys
No one can argue Kotor 2 like I can. I am simply the best there is.
But then you’re the only who can tolerate that game. 😛