Originally posted by Nephthys
Heres the full quote:Personally I'd say that we need to evaluate the phrase ' No counterforce had risen against them' before we establish how great a feat this was.
I am glad this was addressed though. It explains why during the prequels Mace says that the Jedi's ability to use the force had diminished. And why the Dark Side of the Force clouded their vision.
PT Jedi would be more powerful during previous eras. 😛
That's right I said it. 💃
Originally posted by Nephthys
How much sense does it make for it to be the same thing as Force Drain when any Jedi in the game can learn Force Drain whenever the hell they want? Why would the Exile need to be told about an ability that you can use whenever you want? Any goddamn Sith can use Force Drain. What they do is as far above that as Sidious' Force Storm is above regular Force Lightning.You'll note that Force Strom can refer to multiple techniques as well.
Yeah, but when Nihilus's technique is specifically labeled as force drain? In fact, it says that he took it to new heights.
Furthermore, you're using gameplay mechanics. What, can Kyle Katarn learn force lightning when he had enough XP in the mythos now?
The key words are 'in the game.' In the novel Revan, he never uses Force Drain, nor makes attempts to.
Was this when Palpatine was killing him?
Is this the same basic description for Force Drain as well:'As much as one may use the Force to bolster the wills and strengths of others, the reverse is possible, though not often used. Instead of sending one's will through connections in the Force, instead such connections are drawn upon, fed upon, and drained completely.'
If theres a defence, theres no evidence for it.
Besides the basic facts in the mythos of people blocking being drained with the Force
How the **** are they even close to being identical you lunatic? Heres what the Thought Bomb does:Heres what the 'Gaga Drain' does:
You might notice that theres a slight difference. Nihilus and the Exile also are shown using the technique in ways beyond the conventional draining of the Force. For example at the very start of the game Atton notes on more than one occasion that he can't seem to not do whatever you want to do:
I'll assume this is simple ignorance.
When Bane utilizes the drain in DoE:
Muscles and tendons
atrophied instantaneously; their skin withered and shrank, pulling tight
across their bones. Eyes and tongues shriveled, turning them into
mummified husks before their desiccated flesh crumbled away, leaving
only skeletal remains and a few strands of hair.
The effort of creating an aura of pure dark side energy would have quickly
exhausted even Bane.
However, as his enemies fell he was able to draw their essence into
himself, feeding on their energies
In "Unseen, Unheard," Nihilus uses the drain on Katarr....every corpse shown around Visas is just bare bones.
And the Jedi Council notes:“Have you noticed that when you act, others follow? Those that travel with you... they follow you, without question. Without hesitation.”
“Against their instincts, and sometimes against their sense.”
And then the Exile says that its because shes a leader and they say no, its to do with her ability with Force Bonds, which as this quote points out:
'As much as one may use the Force to bolster the wills and strengths of others, the reverse is possible, though not often used. Instead of sending one's will through connections in the Force, instead such connections are drawn upon, fed upon, and drained completely.'
As well as this:
Is fundamental to the technique that the Exile uses, which is the same one that Nihilus and Kreia use. You can see evidence for this in Nihilus' Force Slaves. So yes, due to teh facts that it doesn't work the same way, it isn't used the same way, it has different effects and it doesn't have the same end effect it is absolutely 100% different from the Thought Bomb as well as other variation on Force Drain. [/B]
At the end of the day, canon still says you're wrong. You're referring to the Exile's unique nature in the force draining others. That doesn't change the means in which they use it.
the KOTOR campaign guide still lists it as being Force Drain, so? Tough. You're outright wrong. Oh, and Palpatine is more or less a black hole/wound/event horizon in the force anyways.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yeah, but when Nihilus's technique is specifically labeled as force drain? In fact, it says that he took it to new heights.
Exact quote please. Unless you're referring to this:
Darth Traya indeed teaches the newly christened Darth Nihilus to harness his life-draining gift to radical heights—so effectively, in fact, that Nihilus saps Traya's powers in a calculated double-cross.
But Traya underestimates her disciples' depravity. They turn on her and drain her Force powers.
--Taken from the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide
In which case lolno.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Furthermore, you're using gameplay mechanics. What, can Kyle Katarn learn force lightning when he had enough XP in the mythos now?
Kyle Katarn automatically gains Force Lightning in Jedi Outcast. Another fail I'm afraid.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
The key words are 'in the game.' In the novel Revan, he never uses Force Drain, nor makes attempts to.
Aren't you arguing that the Thought Bomb is the same thing as Force Drain? The Thought Bomb that Bane learned from Revan. Jeez LS, at least try to be consistent. 😆
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Besides the basic facts in the mythos of people blocking being drained with the Force.
Firstly, when?
Secondly, nice that you didn't even try to argue my quote. Real classy.
And thirdly, alright hotshot, then explain to me why none of the other uses of Force Drain that you claim are the same as the one Nihilus uses led to the hunger to feed on Force Sensitives that is innate to Nihilus attack, as outlined here:
Chris Avellone
As much as Nihilus embraced the Dark Side’s Force talent of consuming force sensitives (and other life, such as the mass Mandalorian slaughter), the Exile took the higher ground and cut himself off from the pull of such power. As powerful as Nihilus’ ability is in the short term, the drawback is that it robs the user of almost identity but hunger, which is why is never employed by the Sith Lords of old... who had no wish to sublimate their identities for any reason.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
I'll assume this is simple ignorance.When Bane utilizes the drain in DoE:
[b]Muscles and tendons
[/b]
atrophied instantaneously; their skin withered and shrank, pulling tight
across their bones. Eyes and tongues shriveled, turning them into
mummified husks before their desiccated flesh crumbled away, leaving
only skeletal remains and a few strands of hair.
The effort of creating an aura of pure dark side energy would have quickly
exhausted even Bane.
However, as his enemies fell he was able to draw their essence into
himself, feeding on their energies
Whats your point? That technique isn't the Giga Drain either. Are you suggesting that Bane used the Thought Bomb there? Are you that stupid? You know that the Thought Bomb is a ritual and that it condenses the 'drained' Force into a sphere primed to explode:
"It's an old Sith skill. The Force can be extracted and mentally bound into a shape primed for explosion." - Lord Kopecz
Originally posted by Lightsnake
In "Unseen, Unheard," Nihilus uses the drain on Katarr....every corpse shown around Visas is just bare bones.
😆 'Every corpse'? Theres a single hand. That could easily be a result of the explosions we see occuring. Or maybe a loose grave.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
At the end of the day, canon still says you're wrong. You're referring to the Exile's unique nature in the force draining others. That doesn't change the means in which they use it.
“It is the teaching of these new Sith, to feed on others, on other Force Sensitives. They are symptomatic of the wound in the Force. You are a breach that must be closed. You transmit your pain, your suffering through the Force.”
Vrook outright says that part of the technique is 'siphoning their will and dominating them' and that this is the same technique the 'new Sith' use. The same sith to whom Nihilus is 'simply the pinnacle of what they could achieve, in time.'
Originally posted by Lightsnake
the KOTOR campaign guide still lists it as being Force Drain, so? Tough. You're outright wrong. Oh, and Palpatine is more or less a black hole/wound/event horizon in the force anyways.
And of course Force Drain always refers to the same thing. Why, according to you the Thought Bomb, the Giga drain, the technique Bane used, regular Force Drain and what Sidious did to Byss is all the same technique! Man thats a versatile little thing isn't it? 😆
Yes we all know about Dooku's flowery verbal-blowjob to Sidious about him being an event horizon in the Force. And Revan is the Heart of the Force, so thats pretty cool too. 👆
Nephthys
Yes we all know about Dooku's flowery verbal-blowjob to Sidious about him being an event horizon in the Force.
What's hilarious here is that the glass house that you and Lightsnake are currently occupying and destroying with stones is built upon a foundation flowery prose from Stover and Avellone.