Hulk vs Count Nefaria

Originally posted by carver9
Hulks healing factor can be taxed just like any healing factor could. He fought non-stop. Thor being bfred by Serpent shouldn't do anything noticable towards his performance and Thor pretty much fought in a RAGE fashion and actually have fts of damaging Galactus with that scar on his chest. Thor wasn't weakened.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because you say so? Anybody having a wound on his body that won't heal is not going to fight at 100%, its just common sense. Add in his beating by odin and different fights in fear itself and anybody can see that tor was weakened. Where was it stated that hulk's healing factor was overtaxed in WWH?

Where was it stated that Thor was weakened? How many times did Odin hit Thor? Thor had time to rest in between all of this.

Originally posted by carver9
That's the point of being a high Herald. I didnt see anything during that fight to suggest Thor was weakened. That's like me discrediting everything Hulk went through during World at War because he was consistently fighting "non-stop". Thor wasn't weakened.

Originally posted by carver9
Where was it stated that Thor was weakened? How many times did Odin hit Thor? Thor had time to rest in between all of this.

Originally posted by leonidas
huh? kirby didn't create nefaria.... 😕

and palming thor's hammer still ranks as one of the great feats any brick can pull off.... he also COMPLETELY no sold wonderman's punches.

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/scans/A165_WonderManVsNefaria.JPG

that is a hell of a feat given some of simon's own showings. he's NOT pre-c supes, obviously, but that early team of avengers that finally beat him was pretty stacked--thor, IM, vision, wonderman and scarlet witch all worked together to take him out. great showing for the count, no way around it.

I'm reading the comic right now, and you left out the panels just before this when Simon actually hurts Nefaria. Very tricky. The Hulk would mash Nefaria into pulp.

Originally posted by Stoic
I'm reading the comic right now, and you left out the panels just before this when Simon actually hurts Nefaria. Very tricky. The Hulk would mash Nefaria into pulp.

😂

and very tricky of YOU to leave out the fact that he only hurt him because (a) he surprised cn (b) because cn was new to his powers and unprepared for simon's strength.

http://imageshack.us/f/195/avengers165050001.jpg/

before that page, simon surprise attacked him while cn was attacking and catching yellowjacket.

a surprise attack is meaningless. when cn was ready for him--as he'd be ready in this fight--he no sold simon. nothing 'tricky' about.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Is it one of your "2000 mps" times again? Not everything is supposed to be explained in CAPITAL LETTERS in comics. Yeah we saw how much rest he got in that prison, didn't we?

Gotcha...Angriir/Thing was weakened as well due to him consistently fighting non-stop. That's why Thor was able to take him out of the fight as easily as he did.

Originally posted by Damborgson
yeah he was. Wtf. For someone who said Thor is his favorite character u try to downplay him at every turn. Anyways, Hulk has a healing factor. He can;t be used as a comparison. Thor wasn't at his best when he fought high skyfather Cul. This is common sense.

You are making excuses...that's why I am saying what I am.saying. I am a Thor fan but I don't make excuses for the character either. During B&T, Thor fought consistently and was still wrecking shop. He has done this on a couple of occasions. I see no reason why anything was so different now. For someone that can fight Hulk for hours, there really shouldn't be any excuses needed.

All three of the characters had encounters (Nul had the least) but the only one's stamina I'd consider impacted enough to actually worth noting is Thor's because of the World Tree wound. I find it suspect -and a bit laughable looking at the guy we're discussing- that Angrir was weakened because he fought the F4 in a tie-in.

Thor's fight with the Serpents forces might be worth noting as well because it was written by Fraction and it happened right before. Not entirely sure here though because the writer has like tunnel vision.

While his fight with Odin was in that short period of time and brutal, he had at least some recovery time which with Thor's ability to bounce back invalidates it in this discussion. And I also doubt Fraction was considering it.

Another problem with Fraction is that he tries to be too clever and subtle and as a result the audience misses out on details. Reading his interviews, it's like you need to be in his head to get some of his ideas, I'd really like to see his breakdown for that fight.

Originally posted by carver9
What's up Hyperion Prime...long time no see.

What's up carver.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
All three of the characters had encounters (Nul had the least) but the only one's stamina I'd consider impacted enough to actually worth noting is Thor's because of the World Tree wound. I find it suspect -and a bit laughable looking at the guy we're discussing- that Angrir was weakened because he fought the F4 in a tie-in.

Thor's fight with the Serpents forces is probably worth noting as well mainly because it was written by Fraction and it happened right before. On the edge here though because the writer has like tunnel vision.

While his fight with Odin was in that short period of time and brutal, he had at least some recovery time which with Thor's ability to bounce back invalidates it in this discussion. And I also doubt Fraction was considering it.

Another problem with Fraction is that he tries to be too clever and subtle and as a result the audience misses out on details. Reading his interviews, it's like you need to be in his head to get some of his ideas.

Now THIS is a reasonable post. Very reasonable. I'm done debating this now.

Originally posted by carver9
Now THIS is a reasonable post. Very reasonable. I'm done debating this now.

I'm nothing if not objective when it comes to Thor.

When did you start?

Just to let you know Rage. Angrir was damaged by Spiderman as well. He fought non-stop, so I see no reason why he wouldn't have been fatigued. Then he had some worms that all of a sudden showed up messing with his mind. There was a lot at play with this character.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm nothing if not objective when it comes to Thor.

When did you start?

😂

I've been debating. Why keep this going Rage when I said you made a good post.

Originally posted by carver9
Just to let you know Rage. Angrir was damaged by Spiderman as well. He fought non-stop, so I see no reason why he wouldn't have been fatigued. Then he had some worms that all of a sudden showed up messing with his mind. There was a lot at play with this character.

Spider-Man affecting Angrir after that blitz doesn't mean he was fatigued, it's just one of those good showings he gets every few years. It most certainly doesn't mean Fraction wrote a weakened Angrir, I'd honestly be shocked if he even knew of that comic.

You're gonna need more concrete evidence bro. You mean the possession? Didn't he give in? Not sure how it's relevant for the Thor fight.

Originally posted by carver9
Gotcha...Angriir/Thing was weakened as well due to him consistently fighting non-stop. That's why Thor was able to take him out of the fight as easily as he did.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Spider-Man affecting Angrir after that blitz doesn't mean he was fatigued, it's just one of those good showings he gets every few years. It most certainly doesn't mean Fraction wrote a weakened Angrir, I'd honestly be shocked if he even knew of that comic.

You're gonna need more concrete evidence bro. You mean the possession? Didn't he give in? Not sure how it's relevant for the Thor fight.

I never said the "only" thing Spiderman did fatigued Angrir, I said that was added damage. Angrir consistently fought and some of it was done off panel. Angrir fought just as much as Thor did.

The reason I brought up the worms is due to the fact that it also aided in messing up his performance which was also shown during the Spiderman fight.

Originally posted by leonidas
😂

and very tricky of YOU to leave out the fact that he only hurt him because (a) he surprised cn (b) because cn was new to his powers and unprepared for simon's strength.

http://imageshack.us/f/195/avengers165050001.jpg/

before that page, simon surprise attacked him while cn was attacking and catching yellowjacket.

a surprise attack is meaningless. when cn was ready for him--as he'd be ready in this fight--he no sold simon. nothing 'tricky' about.

The Hulk recently took hits from behind the head by guys that were at that time classified as being stronger than Wonder Man. The Hulk didn't even mutter a word. Let's dial it back a few years to when the Vision landed on the Hulk at max density, and how it did not stop him. Then let's go to the scene that Nefaria is taken out. How was Nefaria stopped in the same book that you took those scans from? See how tricky you are? I'll give Nefaria his props but, I wouldn't hide the reason behind his defeat, when he only has a handful of appearances.

Originally posted by carver9
I never said the "only" thing Spiderman did fatigued Angrir, I said that was added damage. Angrir consistently fought and some of it was done off panel. Angrir fought just as much as Thor did.

The reason I brought up the worms is due to the fact that it also aided in messing up his performance which was also shown during the Spiderman fight.

Added damage? There's isn't some magical meter that depletes when a character fights, he had 3 different battles under 3 different writers in 3 different books. Using Spider-Man hurting him as evidence of fatigue is laughably desperate.

What off panel fights did Angrir have? Like I said, the World Tree and perhaps the battle with the Serpent are the only thing worth noting. And those were all written by Fraction. I don't remember and I don't care enough to double check, either way it wasn't present during the fight with Thor so it's irrelevant.

For the record, Thor beat Angrir by having Mjolnir carve a hole in his chest, unless his durability was notably depleted it wouldn't have ended any other way.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Added damage? There's isn't some magical meter that depletes when a character fights, he had 3 different battles under 3 different writers in 3 different books. Using Spider-Man hurting him as evidence of fatigue is laughably desperate.

What off panel fights did Angrir have? Like I said, the World Tree and perhaps the battle with the Serpent are the only thing worth noting. And those were all written by Fraction. I don't remember and I don't care enough to double check, either way it wasn't present during the fight with Thor so it's irrelevant.

For the record, Thor beat Angrir by having Mjolnir carve a hole in his chest, unless his durability was notably depleted it wouldn't have ended any other way.

I agree and I'm done with this...I don't even know why we are debating this when I agreed with you a long time ago. By the way, you are underestimating a non-holding back Spiderman. You might want to look at his track record.