Originally posted by carver9
I agree and I'm done with this...I don't even know why we are debating this when I agreed with you a long time ago. By the way, you are underestimating a non-holding back Spiderman. You might want to look at his track record.
Okay then.
How am I underestimating him? I told you that affecting Angrir was one of those occasional high end showings he gets every few years.
Originally posted by Stoic
The Hulk recently took hits from behind the head by guys that were at that time classified as being stronger than Wonder Man. The Hulk didn't even mutter a word. Let's dial it back a few years to when the Vision landed on the Hulk at max density, and how it did not stop him. Then let's go to the scene that Nefaria is taken out. How was Nefaria stopped in the same book that you took those scans from? See how tricky you are? I'll give Nefaria his props but, I wouldn't hide the reason behind his defeat, when he only has a handful of appearances.
the same handbook that had thor at cl95. 😐
and he was taken out (as i already stated in this thread, so i've no idea where you're getting this 'tricky' thing from......) by teamwork from a team that consisted of thor, im, vision, scarlet witch and simon. that's a powerful team of avengers. did vision land the FINAL blow? yeah. would it have worked had he not already been taking on the whole team? i doubt it. i really have no idea what you're even arguing anymore. hulk from hotm would win the fight. classic savage hulk would lose. hardly an extreme view point. you can choose to believe bi-beast would win a fight against simon, but there is zero chance you could convince me of that, (he couldn't even win 1/10 imo) and simon would take and beat some versions of wendigo as well, imo. we already agreed we'd disagree. this 'tricky' stuff is nonsense. i don't hide or crop. ever. and i've been here long enough that people know that. so, meh.
Originally posted by leonidas
the same handbook that had thor at cl95. 😐and he was taken out (as i already stated in this thread, so i've no idea where you're getting this 'tricky' thing from......) by teamwork from a team that consisted of thor, im, vision, scarlet witch and simon. that's a powerful team of avengers. did vision land the FINAL blow? yeah. would it have worked had he not already been taking on the whole team? i doubt it. i really have no idea what you're even arguing anymore. hulk from hotm would win the fight. classic savage hulk would lose. hardly an extreme view point. you can choose to believe bi-beast would win a fight against simon, but there is zero chance you could convince me of that, (he couldn't even win 1/10 imo) and simon would take and beat some versions of wendigo as well, imo. we already agreed we'd disagree. this 'tricky' stuff is nonsense. i don't hide or crop. ever. and i've been here long enough that people know that. so, meh.
When the Vision landed on the Hulk, he was taking on a more powerful team of Avengers than Nefaria was taking on. My reason for pressing the issue is to simply demystify this uber classic Nefaria that has been going on for a very long time. I'm not taking jabs at you, but if you had access to scans that showed only Nefaria's greatness, but left out his less than great moment seemed a bit sneaky. There are people that are unaware of how Nefaria was defeated, and without seeing the full picture of what he can take, and can't, would or could give Nefaria an auto win based on what was supplied. The scan of Nefaria no selling Simon's punch could make him seem impervious to damage, but when you add the full picture, he tends to be deflated quite a bit. You see where I'm coming from?
i see where you're coming from, but the scans where simon DID damage were irrelevent because he was NOT ready and was surprised. something that would not happen here. he's clearly not impervious, as thor also hit him around, but imo he was clearly intended to be a true team-level threat. there's not much to demystify, imo. anyone that required the efforts of that team of avengers to beat, is pretty uber in my book.
Originally posted by carver9Oh please. You're the last person to be telling someone to not make excuses. Which I am not. Just stating facts. Yeah except During B&T Thor was at peak condition and not holding back physically . Not slashed through the stomach dripping cosmic goop. A non applicable example.
You are making excuses...that's why I am saying what I am.saying. I am a Thor fan but I don't make excuses for the character either. During B&T, Thor fought consistently and was still wrecking shop. He has done this on a couple of occasions. I see no reason why anything was so different now. For someone that can fight Hulk for hours, there really shouldn't be any excuses needed.
If you don't see the reason then you're not reading my posts. A healthy Thor fought Hulk for hours. Not a wounded one who had been given hell by Odin, and then had to fight the amped Thing and WWH. Its pretty simple Carv.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Oh please. You're the last person to be telling someone to not make excuses. Which I am not. Just stating facts. Yeah except During B&T Thor was at peak condition and not holding back physically . Not slashed through the stomach dripping cosmic goop. A non applicable example.If you don't see the reason then you're not reading my posts. A healthy Thor fought Hulk for hours. Not a wounded one who had been given hell by Odin, and then had to fight the amped Thing and WWH. Its pretty simple Carv.
Read Rage post. I agree with his stance. If you see anything different, then there is where the disagreement begins. He did fight an amped Thing and Savage Hulk but the fight didn't go in the way you think/hope it went.
Originally posted by carver9what exactly in rages posts do u want me to see? All I saw was u once again trying ti downplay thors win. At least be specific. He fight an amped thing and WWH HULK how on Earth would he be an amped savage if he was at WWH hulk levels when he got the hammer? You are saying that the amp given to him by a high skyfather weakened him. Do u understand how ridiculous that is?
Read Rage post. I agree with his stance. If you see anything different, then there is where the disagreement begins. He did fight an amped Thing and Savage Hulk but the fight didn't go in the way you think/hope it went.
Originally posted by Damborgson
what exactly in rages posts do u want me to see? All I saw was u once again trying ti downplay thors win. At least be specific. He fight an amped thing and WWH HULK how on Earth would he be an amped savage if he was at WWH hulk levels when he got the hammer? You are saying that the amp given to him by a high skyfather weakened him. Do u understand how ridiculous that is?
Not downplaying anything and how is that a win when he was koed.
Calm Hulk...
http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/4351/worthyawaken4.jpg
Which means he wasn't at WWH level. WWH stayed in a RAGE fashion...stayed pissed. The version of Hulk that's in the scan presented is showing a calm, happy Hulk that was laid back and with Betty.
It doesn't matter since Hulk was at 100% after his fight with Thor. He was so powerful that he ran through the Vampire nation along with ripping through Uru and Adamantium like cheap tissue paper.
Originally posted by carver9he tore a hole through angrirs chest then ko'd nul (even if only for a bit) before he himself fell to exhaustion. Do you see that
Not downplaying anything and how is that a win when he was koed.Calm Hulk...
http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/4351/worthyawaken4.jpg
Which means he wasn't at WWH level. WWH stayed in a RAGE fashion...stayed pissed. The version of Hulk that's in the scan presented is showing a calm, happy Hulk that was laid back and with Betty.
It doesn't matter since Hulk was at 100% after his fight with Thor. He was so powerful that he ran through the Vampire nation along with ripping through Uru and Adamantium like cheap tissue paper.
it was the same hulk incarnation who fought in wwh. Calm or not. Of corse at that moment in time he wasnt as angry as he was when he was beating on Reed or something, but the fact remains that he was the same incarnation that fought in wwh. And he more than made up for it later in fear itself. He was plenty angry and not holding back. and he was back at full power after falling back to earth because he had an enhanced healing factor. You know this.
Those were very impressive showings. There is no doubt about that. And it was primary adamantium until sttated otherwise. Thor aldo performed these feats back in the day.
Originally posted by Damborgson
he tore a hole through angrirs chest then ko'd nul (even if only for a bit) before he himself fell to exhaustion. Do you see that
as a loss? And yes u were downplaying his win saying
spiderman affecting him slightly weakened angrir lol.it was the same hulk incarnation who fought in wwh. Calm or not. Of corse at that moment in time he wasnt as angry as he was when he was beating on Reed or something, but the fact remains that he was the same incarnation that fought in wwh. And he more than made up for it later in fear itself. He was plenty angry and not holding back. and he was back at full power after falling back to earth because he had an enhanced healing factor. You know this.
Those were very impressive showings. There is no doubt about that. And it was primary adamantium until sttated otherwise. Thor aldo performed these feats back in the day.
So Thor physically ripped through Angrir chest? It's HIGHLY DEBATABLE if Nul was koed. Me bringing up Angrir fighting Spiderman had nothing to do with downplaying Thor showings.
The Hulk that grabbed the hammer wasn't at WWH levels which is my point. There's no telling if he got to those levels once he grabbed the hammer or not, especially since WWH strength fluctuate...he didn't have a cap on his strength.
Also, lololololol at you saying his he had an enhanced healing factor...hahaha...also, if Thor did as much damage as you think he did, he would have been laid out when he hit the planet or at least damaged. None of that happened, Nul was at 100% and that was the reason Thor bfred him..he knew he couldn't stop Nul.
Originally posted by carver9he shot mjolnir through hiis chest. Whats your point? Yes it was. You said in an attempt to downplay thors showing cuz ur in denial that he was weakened.
So Thor physically ripped through Angrir chest? It's HIGHLY DEBATABLE if Nul was koed. Me bringing up Angrir fighting Spiderman had nothing to do with downplaying Thor showings.The Hulk that grabbed the hammer wasn't at WWH levels which is my point. There's no telling if he got to those levels once he grabbed the hammer or not, especially since WWH strength fluctuate...he didn't have a cap on his strength.
Also, lololololol at you saying his he had an enhanced healing factor...hahaha...also, if Thor did as much damage as you think he did, he would have been laid out when he hit the planet or at least damaged. None of that happened, Nul was at 100% and that was the reason Thor bfred him..he knew he couldn't stop Nul.
why would the hulk lose his abilities when evetyone else had their abilitirs amplified? neither did nul.
Why is that funny? everyone who received a hammer got his abilities
increased in power. That includes the hulk. And the hulk kinda has an amzing
HF.dont put words in my mouth or think my thoughts for me. Never have I said hulk was extremely damaged or thor was pounding him or something like that. Thor briefly ko'd him, and dealt some damage during the fight veggie hand. Thats all.
References that WWH could destroy a planet.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkplanetarythreat1.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkplanetarythreat2.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkplanetarythreat3.jpg
Strange stating Hulk has never been this powerful.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/wwhstrongest.jpg
Reed states Hulk power is off the charts.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkpoweroffcharts.jpg
Shield states Hulk is at a power level they have never seen.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/wwhstrongest1.jpg
Gamma corps profile states that WWH is angrier than he has ever been.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/wwhangriest.jpg
Another scan that states Hulk is angrier and stronger than he has ever been.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/wwhstrongest2.jpg
I can go all day with this. Like I said, its DEBATABLE if Nul was as strong as WWH...your average Hulk, you might have an argument with the AVERAGE Hulk but WWH...hell naw.
Originally posted by Damborgson
he shot mjolnir through hiis chest. Whats your point? Yes it was. You said in an attempt to downplay thors showing cuz ur in denial that he was weakened.why would the hulk lose his abilities when evetyone else had their abilitirs amplified? neither did nul.
Why is that funny? everyone who received a hammer got his abilities
increased in power. That includes the hulk. And the hulk kinda has an amzing
HF.dont put words in my mouth or think my thoughts for me. Never have I said hulk was extremely damaged or thor was pounding him or something like that. Thor briefly ko'd him, and dealt some damage during the fight veggie hand. Thats all.
He wasn't weakened.
Hulk did gain versatility...not denying that. Was he at WWH levels...don't think so. Zom Strange was hitting WWH so hard that it was putting holes in his body and he was ok afterwards...Nul wasn't on those levels.
He wasn't damaged (Hulk/Nul) at all...he wasn't koed either and there is nothing showing that he WAS koed. The only thing you have is speculation which just isnt good enough...especially since we have him busting through an entire race of super humans.
We read that fight completely different buddy.
Carver, for the last time, the Hulk that grabbed the hammer was Green Scar. As a matter of fact, it happened right after all the HoTM shit.
It's illogical to assume he was more powerful than World Breaker despite the time line of events imo but it's just as stupid to argue he was weaker than his World War Hulk levels.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Carver, for the last time, the Hulk that grabbed the hammer was Green Scar. As a matter of fact, it happened right after all the HoTM nonsense.It's illogical to assume he was more powerful than World Breaker but it's just as stupid to argue he was weaker than his World War Hulk levels.
Why would he be stronger than a PISSED WWH? Doesn't make sense. Hulk have complete control of his power. If he is at a calm state, he isn't at his WWH levels...its common sense. WWH isn't a base level for Hulk. It's the beginning of a overpowered Hulk.
Originally posted by carver9
Why would he be stronger than a PISSED WWH? Doesn't make sense. Hulk have complete control of his power. If he is at a calm state, he isn't at his WWH levels...its common sense. WWH isn't a base level for Hulk. It's the beginning of a overpowered Hulk.
What? Green Scar isn't the Savage incarnation, he doesn't have to be foaming at the mouth to be incredibly powerful. He was totally coherent and was able to transform into World Breaker instantaneously. The argument you're presenting for him being less powerful than his World War Hulk levels when he grabbed the hammer is pretty amusing seeing as how it is was right after the HoTM arc.
You might as well not even read Hulk comics.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What? Green Scar isn't the Savage incarnation, he doesn't have to be foaming at the mouth to be incredibly powerful. He was totally coherent and was able to transform into World Breaker instantaneously. The argument you're presenting for him being less powerful than his World War Hulk levels when he grabbed the hammer is pretty amusing seeing as how it is was right after the HoTM arc.You might as well not even read Hulk comics.
Lol...Rage...a calm Hulk doesn't =WWH. There isn't a single showing in comics proving that Hulk stays at those levels daily. Now he can quickly get to those levels but that doesn't mean he walks around at those levels daily. WWH is one of the strongest incarnation to ever walk the planet and again, its debatable if Nul was at those levels because if he was, Earth defense would have been pissing in their pants like they was before.
