Originally posted by Mr MasterEh, wut?
😐Wait so now you're bringing Abraxas down to a planetary warper?
Or wait, a planetary warper on a Multi-Universal or Multiversal scale?
Oh I see, you think Abraxas only merged planets from different Universes.
I completely disagree but as you wish.
I suppose this is why the "the Multiverse ...
... is shifting as constantly as the ocean crashes on a sand of castle?"Abraxas was only merging planets huh. 😂
So Reed meant planets huh?
This is why Reed said bending Reality means nothing to him,
this is why his Handbook bio states he can manipulate UniverseS at will,
this is why the Multiversal Space-Time Continuum was afraid, helpless and went seeking help,
because of the mean "planetary warper" walking around.Give me a phucking break, this shits gone too far.
Right. Warping entire UniverseS across the Multiverse is not uber at all.
You posted a scan of Abraxas randomly amalgamating various characters from different earths, and called it a universal+ feat. THAT is all I was commenting on in my last post. Please read my posts instead of consistently misconstruing them.
...As for the scan you just posted: I do not believe Abraxas was responsible for the multiverse 'constantly shifting'--or at least Reed never stated such. Imo, that scene implied that the multiverse constantly changes naturally--and considering the multiverse equates to an infinite number of universes, that is a very logical conclusion (unless you think the multiverse is completely stagnant and never changes in any way/shape/form..?) 😕
Originally posted by zopzop
A Full Cube Being (Kubik) beat a half Cube Being (Beyonder) which is expected but nothing impressive. Abraxas' very presence put MULTI-Eternity into a panicked state (I think he was actually comatosed). He didn't even have to lift a finger to attack MULTI-Eternity.
ok, now see, THIS is wherein the problems begin.
multi-eternity was......COMATOSE???? W.T.F. 😐
maybe abraxas does weird things to you zop, makes you say things that you don't really mean. and please, you or....ANYONE, show me where--on panel--it was shown that multi-eternity was "panicked". or where he was "scared sh!tless". PLEASE show me or STOP MAKING THIS SH!T UP. captain universe mentioned a constant balance of order and chaos in the multiverse. abraxas' arrival threw that balance out of whack. that is a hell of a lot different from saying multi-eternity was in any way AT ALL "afraid" of abraxas. did his servants rally to try and stop him? of course. but to say multi was "scared" or (un-frickin-believeably) COMATOSE!!! is nothing but the purest, unbridled speculation. comatose???? zop, you're killing me.
and, just for the record--for all the talk that the 'multiverse was powerless before him', guess what?
the MULTIVERSE WON. it figured out a way to beat him.
reed is an infinitesimally small part of.... THE MULTIVERSE. franklin and valeria? yep, you guessed it--part of the MULTIVERSE. galactus? yep. un? yep. so maybe multi-eternity didn't manifest into one SINGLE universe to actively combat him because he knew it was covered already. multi-eternity is the sum totality--all of creation exists as part of him. reed, the un, galactus--all those things are MANIFESTED PARTS of him. and THEY WON.
this is getting ridiculous.
Originally posted by Galan007
...As for the scan you just posted: I do not believe Abraxas was responsible for the multiverse 'constantly shifting'--or at least Reed never stated such. Imo, that scene implied that the multiverse constantly changes naturally--and considering the multiverse equates to an infinite number of universes, that is a very logical conclusion (unless you think the multiverse is completely stagnant and never changes in any way/shape/form..?) 😕
that is exactly the way i interpretted that comment as well. i concede it is open to interpretation however (which is why i think this whole abraxas thing needs to be discussed as matter of OPINION instead of attempting to present everything as FACT) because, like everything else in that arc, reed's dialogue really is a little vague.
Originally posted by Galan007
Eh, wut?You posted a scan of Abraxas randomly amalgamating various
characters from different earths, and called it a universal+ feat.
THAT is all I was commenting on in my last post.Please read my posts instead of consistently misconstruing them.
"Our Earth (universe) seems to be merging with other Alternates." (universes)
-----------------------------
If you believe that Abraxas was randomly selecting individual
characters from different earths to mix together and that was the
big deal of the story,
we have nothing further to discuss here in this particular debate friend.
Btw. I always read all the posts of any person I'm debating with.
This is what you posted prior and what I replied to:
Originally posted by Galan007Reed explicitly said "our earth."
How in the world you are equating "our earth" to "our universe" is entirely beyond me..?
Seems like you are digging deep to try and make that feat seem better than it is.
Peace and love.
Originally posted by Galan007...As for the scan you just posted:
I do not believe Abraxas was responsible for the multiverse
'constantly shifting'--or at least Reed never stated such.
Imo, that scene implied that the multiverse constantly changes
naturally--and considering the multiverse equates to an
infinite number of universes, that is a very logical conclusion(unless you think the multiverse is completely stagnant and never
changes in any way/shape/form..?)
So,
it wasn't the fact that there's an entity that's passing Universes
and as he does so he disrupts them by merging them which
ultimately leads to collapse?
So,
it wasn't what seemed logical which was since the Multiversal
Space-Time Continuum's balance was "upset" due to Abraxas
the Multiverse was "shifting as constantly as the Ocean crashing
on a sand castle."
Damn, that sounds violent
That aside, so Abraxas was not responsible for this because according to you,
the Multiverse is always shifting violently like this?
Although the whole phucking story revolved around Abraxas
being the center of all the chaos.
😐
And, I don't add extra thoughts to unproven self-made ideas.
Like, where on panel,
or in a handbook,
does it state that the Multiverse is always shifting out of place?
That would mean there's a constant imbalance, and that's not true.
Because if that was a fact,
then no one would ever be able to find their Universe after they exit it.
The Fury found Reality 238 after jumping across UniverseS fighting MJJ,
because 238 was in the same exact location as when the Fury left.
If Universes are constantly shifting out of place then the 238 Reality
should not have been in the same place.
Or are you talking about DC facts and attempting to attribute them to Marvel?
Better yet, just show me the evidence (Marvel Comics) where this stated,
on panel or in Handbooks.
Originally posted by leonidas
and, just for the record--for all the talk that the 'multiverse was powerless before him', guess what?the MULTIVERSE WON. it figured out a way to beat him.
reed is an infinitesimally small part of.... THE MULTIVERSE. franklin
and valeria? yep, you guessed it--part of the MULTIVERSE. galactus?
yep. un? yep. so maybe multi-eternity didn't manifest into one
SINGLE universe to actively combat him because he knew it was
covered already. multi-eternity is the sum totality--all of creation
exists as part of him. reed, the un, galactus--all those things are
MANIFESTED PARTS of him. and THEY WON.
Roma.
It was Roma's manipulations/prep that allowed Franky/Valeria to resurrect Galactus,
which in turn served it's purpose to retrieve the UN.
Roma, is an absolute sentience just like Merlin,
meaning they're not connected to any other alternate selves,
other than beings that they themselves have created as
representatives of themselves across the realities.
Roma is not bound by space-time and in fact can and does exist
quite comfortably outside it, under her own power, under her own
fortress overlooking the whole Omniverse from outside, above.
So, Eternity/Infinity are lucky she got their back, or Eternity would not have won.
Originally posted by leonidas
ok, now see, THIS is wherein the problems begin.multi-eternity was......COMATOSE???? W.T.F. 😐
maybe abraxas does weird things to you zop, makes you say things that you don't really mean. and please, you or....ANYONE, show me where--on panel--it was shown that multi-eternity was "panicked". or where he was "scared sh!tless". PLEASE show me or STOP MAKING THIS SH!T UP. captain universe mentioned a constant balance of order and chaos in the multiverse. abraxas' arrival threw that balance out of whack. that is a hell of a lot different from saying multi-eternity was in any way AT ALL "afraid" of abraxas. did his servants rally to try and stop him? of course. but to say multi was "scared" or (un-frickin-believeably) COMATOSE!!! is nothing but the purest, unbridled speculation. comatose???? zop, you're killing me.
and, just for the record--for all the talk that the 'multiverse was powerless before him', guess what?
the MULTIVERSE WON. it figured out a way to beat him.
reed is an infinitesimally small part of.... THE MULTIVERSE. franklin and valeria? yep, you guessed it--part of the MULTIVERSE. galactus? yep. un? yep. so maybe multi-eternity didn't manifest into one SINGLE universe to actively combat him because he knew it was covered already. multi-eternity is the sum totality--all of creation exists as part of him. reed, the un, galactus--all those things are MANIFESTED PARTS of him. and THEY WON.
this is getting ridiculous.
I said, "I think he was comatose" because I wasn't sure. I'll respond to the rest of the post later.
PS Mr. M, I think I got on panel proof that those universes being "warped" by Abraxas were destroyed exactly as you were arguing before. I need to reread the issue but I think you were right.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually good friend you missed one person, the true saviour of the story,
the one person who is not bound to Eternity/Infinity.Roma.
It was Roma's manipulations/prep that allowed Franky/Valeria to resurrect Galactus,
which in turn served it's purpose to retrieve the UN.Roma, is an absolute sentience just like Merlin,
meaning they're not connected to any other alternate selves,
other than beings that they themselves have created as
representatives of themselves across the realities.Roma is not bound by space-time and in fact can and does exist
quite comfortably outside it, under her own power, under her own
fortress overlooking the whole Omniverse from outside, above.So, Eternity/Infinity are lucky she got their back, or Eternity would not have won.
wait a second. are you contending that had the multiverse not come into existence roma would still have.....existed somehow, independent of any "creation"? if so, i'd love to hear how you think that's possible. if not, roma is still a creature of the multiverse. unique, bu still OF creation.
Originally posted by zopzop
Mr. M, I think I got on panel proof that those universes being "warped"
by Abraxas were destroyed exactly as you were arguing before.
I'm 100% certain about this fact.
.....................................................................................
(reference-Official Marvel Handbook 2006 - Abraxas bio)
......................................................................................
His Job:
Occupation: "Dimensional Destroyer"
......................................................................................
His power"
"Abaraxs ... power enabling him to traverse and manipulate Dimensions at will,
restructure matter ... "
......................................................................................
What he did
AB - FF Ultimate Guide bio:
"He can restructure matter and convert physical matter into pure energy ...
he has destroyed entire PLANES of Reality"
......................................................................................
On panel, Nova confirmed that Abraxas had taken out her Universe:
"Brave words, CM. But words, and even deeds did little to save my Reality"
==============================
==============================
Abraxas is the embodiment of Destruction,
he destroys Universes because it's in his power to do so.
Abraxas (under his own power) is the destroyer of All that ever was, is or will be!
This is why the Multiversal Space-Time Continuum was needed help against Abraxas,
actually, ... could do nothing against Abraxas.
..............................................................................................
So, bull shit aside, I have a question to the wagon against Abraxas.
How was Abraxas going to shatter these UniverseS?
"Imagine each of those Worlds like sand in an hourglass ...
an hourglass which Abraxas will shatter"
Originally posted by leonidaswait a second. are you contending that had the multiverse not
come into existence roma would still have.....existed somehow,
independent of any "creation"? if so, i'd love to hear how you think
that's possible. if not, roma is still a creature of the multiverse.
unique, bu still OF creation.
I got tons of scans that prove that.
As far as Roma and/or Merlin existing without there ever having been a Multiverse
I can't answer.
I know this though, there has never been an established origin for either.
In fact, when they first appeared on panel
it was as though they were "Gods" acting on their own behalf.
"Gods" who always were,
and who have been tending to the development of reality.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Roma does not need Eternity/Infinity to exist.I got tons of scans that prove that.
As far as Roma and/or Merlin existing without there ever having been a Multiverse
I can't answer.I know this though, there has never been an established origin for either.
In fact, when they first appeared on panel
it was as though they were "Gods" acting on their own behalf.
"Gods" who always were,
and who have been tending to the development of reality.
so if you can't say they would have existed outside of creation (which only stands to reason) they were indeed (like reed and galactus and the un, etc....,) PART of the multiverse. which is all i said in the first place. the multiverse figured out a way to win.
Originally posted by Mr Master😂 No.
Actually I posted a scan of Reed stating that his Reality
was merging with other alternate Realities:"Our Earth (universe) seems to be merging with other Alternates." (universes)
Reed explicitly stated: "our EARTH (earth) seems to be merging with other alternates (earths.)" One world's creatures melding does NOT imply that entire universes were melding.
Impose your opinion on that scene if you'd like. I'll just stick with what was stated by the "omniscient" Reed Richards. 😉
Originally posted by Mr MasterUm, duh? That's what I just said. 😕
Btw. I always read all the posts of any person I'm debating with.This is what you posted prior and what I replied to:
THAT is all you were commenting on. 🙂
Originally posted by Mr MasterNo more absurd of an idea than you suggesting that an infinite amount of universes (the multiverse) is completely stagnant and never changes in the slightest.
That aside, so Abraxas was not responsible for this because according to you,
the Multiverse is always shifting violently like this?
Additionally, the "omniscient" Reed Richards never stated Abraxas was responsible for the multiverse constantly changing. You merely assumed that's what he was referring to.
Originally posted by Mr MasterI suggest you read the latest volume of Exiles in it's entirety. The answers you seek lie there. 🙂
Like, where on panel,
or in a handbook,
does it state that the Multiverse is always shifting out of place?
That would mean there's a constant imbalance, and that's not true.
Originally posted by Mr Master
..............................................................................................So, bull shit aside, I have a question to the wagon against Abraxas.
[B]How was Abraxas going to shatter these UniverseS?
"Imagine each of those Worlds like sand in an hourglass ...
an hourglass which Abraxas will shatter" [/B]
i somehow missed this. but the question is easy, you just placed emphasis on the wrong part. the comparison was not the WORLDS to the hourglass. the worlds were compared to the SAND in the hourglass. drop the hourglass and the sand is still intact but the shell that held them in place--that kept them ordered--is gone. this simply meant (imo) that he was merging the worlds, blurring lines. and that is what was shown. each world would in effect cease to be because it would no longer exist individually. it doens't mean he was going around 'killing/destroying' universes. he was a force of chaos according to cap universe. that hourglass scene only reconfirms what was known and shown as regards abraxas imo.
Originally posted by leonidas
ok, now see, THIS is wherein the problems begin.multi-eternity was......COMATOSE???? W.T.F. 😐
maybe abraxas does weird things to you zop, makes you say things that you don't really mean. and please, you or....ANYONE, show me where--on panel--it was shown that multi-eternity was "panicked". or where he was "scared sh!tless". PLEASE show me or STOP MAKING THIS SH!T UP. captain universe mentioned a constant balance of order and chaos in the multiverse. abraxas' arrival threw that balance out of whack. that is a hell of a lot different from saying multi-eternity was in any way AT ALL "afraid" of abraxas. did his servants rally to try and stop him? of course. but to say multi was "scared" or (un-frickin-believeably) COMATOSE!!! is nothing but the purest, unbridled speculation. comatose???? zop, you're killing me.
and, just for the record--for all the talk that the 'multiverse was powerless before him', guess what?
the MULTIVERSE WON. it figured out a way to beat him.
reed is an infinitesimally small part of.... THE MULTIVERSE. franklin and valeria? yep, you guessed it--part of the MULTIVERSE. galactus? yep. un? yep. so maybe multi-eternity didn't manifest into one SINGLE universe to actively combat him because he knew it was covered already. multi-eternity is the sum totality--all of creation exists as part of him. reed, the un, galactus--all those things are MANIFESTED PARTS of him. and THEY WON.
this is getting ridiculous.
The Multiverse won? 😕 You mean the UN won. That was the ONLY thing (don't know why the LT didn't interfere) that stopped him and the ONLY thing he feared. And even then it had to be wielded by someone like Reed Richards who has a history of godlike shenanigans and the only UN that would work was the 616 reality one (apparently, since they would have had access to alt reality UNs if they wanted them).
A snapshot of Eternity while Roma explains what was going on :
He looks calm doesn't he? Add in the fact that BOTH of his helpers/caretakers (Captain Universe and Roma) were powerless before Abraxas and a picture starts forming.
Originally posted by zopzop
The Multiverse won? 😕 You mean the UN won. That was the ONLY thing (don't know why the LT didn't interfere) that stopped him and the ONLY thing he feared. And even then it had to be wielded by someone like Reed Richards who has a history of godlike shenanigans and the only UN that would work was the 616 reality one (apparently, since they would have had access to alt reality UNs if they wanted them).A snapshot of Eternity while Roma explains what was going on :
He looks calm doesn't he? Add in the fact that BOTH of his helpers/caretakers (Captain Universe and Roma) were powerless before Abraxas and a picture starts forming.
is the un part of the multiverse.....? so yeah, a power within the multiverse was great enough to defeat him. the multiverse won. you somehow disagree with this point?
and i'm not too sure what to call that expression on eternity--'scared ****less' isn't wouldn't be it though......
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Merlyn used to train under a SS in Necrom. And then used the Matrix for his power.He was created in the multiverse, and then went to form the Braddock Corps after he rose to power.
Oddly enough, Merlyn owes Pheonix quite a bit of credit...
To what Leo was saying.
gracias. i was saving the whole merlyn thing to see what was gonna come of all this nonsense. 😂
Originally posted by Galan007
😂 No.Reed explicitly stated: "our EARTH (earth) seems to be merging with other alternates (earths.)" One world's creatures melding does NOT imply that entire universes were melding.
Impose your opinion on that scene if you'd like. I'll just stick with what was stated by the "omniscient" Reed Richards. 😉
Um, duh? That's what I just said. 😕
No more absurd of an idea than you suggesting that an infinite amount of universes (the multiverse) is completely stagnant and never changes in the slightest.
Additionally, the "omniscient" Reed Richards never stated Abraxas was responsible for the multiverse constantly changing. You merely assumed that's what he was referring to.
I suggest you read the latest volume of Exiles in it's entirety. The answers you seek lie there. 🙂
Do you think that Reed saying "Reality" "Earths" and "Alternates" as meaning the same thing, don't you think Galan? That's how I viewed it.
Agreeing with yah about the multiverse constantly changes naturally and not Abraxas causing it, imo.
Originally posted by leonidas
is the un part of the multiverse.....? so yeah, a power within the multiverse was great enough to defeat him. the multiverse won. you somehow disagree with this point?and i'm not too sure what to call that expression on eternity--'scared ****less' isn't wouldn't be it though......
No one even knows who or what created the UN or where it comes from. That thing, in the right hands, was powerful enough to REMAKE the multiverse. How could it be a part of the multiverse if it's powerful enough to end and then remake it?
And what would you call that expression on Eternity's face? Joy? Elation? Pleasant surprise? As Roma is discussing the end of all time.
Originally posted by leonidasso if you can't say they would have existed outside of creation (which only stands to reason) they were indeed (like reed and
galactus and the un, etc....,) PART of the multiverse. which is all i said
in the first place. the multiverse figured out a way to win.
What I said was, I don't know how Merlin and/or Roma came to be.
But, considering their first appearance,
it seemed as though they were gods who alway were.
