Originally posted by Nietzschean
i'm sorry. i dont buy that. u have a scan of Hurt being stated or implied to be Satan?
Not on hand, but I could find one given time.
The implication is pretty strong, especially with the lines of dialogue he uses definitely pointing in that direction. "I am the hole in things..."the enemy", "the piece that can never fit, there since the beginning." It gets to the point where he's basically saying "Yeah, I'm the Devil". Was Simon Hurt really the Devil as we usually think of him to be? Morrison believes so and that was his intent in writing R.I.P., but he left it purposefully vague so people can come to their own conclusion. Hurt definitely believes he is the Devil and is in actuality, a long lived, nearly immortal ancestor of the Waynes, but you won't find concrete proof of him being the Devil.
Regardless of whether or not Hurt is a/the Devil or not, he was easily a massive psychological foil to Batman.
Originally posted by Nietzscheaneh, Batman's faced almost exactly that situation above and Joker still lives.
and using this statement. Wolverine has faced things that Batman has never had to face nor put in the situation where he had to make the same hard choices Logan has.We can pretend that Batman might make the noble choice due to willpower but you dont know that. All we have is the feats at hand and Batman has not shown to have the greater will simply b/c he doesnt have similar situations as Wolverine.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankRIP and alll that followed was entirely a massive showing of will. From having his brain shut down, poisoned, beaten and burried alive, all of it, sheer force of will.
Not on hand, but I could find one given time.The implication is pretty strong, especially with the lines of dialogue he uses definitely pointing in that direction. "I am the hole in things..."the enemy", "the piece that can never fit, there since the beginning." It gets to the point where he's basically saying "Yeah, I'm the Devil". Was Simon Hurt really the Devil as we usually think of him to be? Morrison believes so and that was his intent in writing R.I.P., but he left it purposefully vague so people can come to their own conclusion. Hurt definitely believes he is the Devil and is in actuality, a long lived, nearly immortal ancestor of the Waynes, but you won't find concrete proof of him being the Devil.
Regardless of whether or not Hurt is a/the Devil or not, he was easily a massive psychological foil to Batman.
Originally posted by Juntai
RIP and alll that followed was entirely a massive showing of will. From having his brain shut down, poisoned, beaten and burried alive, all of it, sheer force of will.
👆
The Black Glove, R.I.P, Final Crisis, Return of Bruce Wayne...
All a massive willpower display for Batman.
Originally posted by Juntaino, Batman hasnt faced the same things Wolverine has.
eh, Batman's faced almost exactly that situation above and Joker still lives.
this is comparing the two not something u referenced to poster and than argue Batman wouldnt react the same way he would.
it was a moot argument. 🙄
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
\ It's far more impressive than Logan going to a version of Marvel's Hell.
You a very much under selling Wolverine feat. Have you even read the arc? There no evidence to say Batman feat was more impressive let a lone far more impressive.
Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
That was not a version of hell. that was hell in marvel. that was the devil and it was made very clear were he was and who he wa sup against. The devil entire focus was to break Wolverine and he failed hard.You a very much under selling Wolverine feat. Have you even read the arc? There no evidence to say Batman feat was more impressive let a lone far more impressive.
It was a section of Hell, which in Marvel continuity, has been consistently shown as having different sections of it and different levels. Mephisto has his hell, "Satan" has his hell, Hela is renting a part of hell. Furthermore, there are multiple demons who all claim to be Satan or a/the Devil. Feats from this being would be muchly appreciated.
I'm not underselling it at all. But considering the portrayal of Darkseid in Final Crisis, Batman enduring the Omega Sanction is more impressive than Wolverine in Hell. Batman's will resisting the call of Anti-Life is about as absurd a willpower feat as you can get for just "being a man."
In Spectre volume 4 issue 4, the cosmic entity Mistos trapped Batman, described it as "Waves of uncontrolled emotion and floods of memory" as "Past present and future collapse in your psyche into one chaotic now" and then said to Awl, that Batman was forced into an "individual amniotic universe, adrift, alone and helpless" and right as she finishes the sentence, Batman bursts out of the self contained universe and starts trying to kung fu a cosmic entity and she immediately says that his will is too strong. lol.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankthis
I'm not underselling it at all. But considering the portrayal of Darkseid in Final Crisis, Batman enduring the Omega Sanction is more impressive than Wolverine in Hell. Batman's will resisting the call of Anti-Life is about as absurd a willpower feat as you can get for just "being a man."
I pretty much feel the same way about this thread as I did about the other
Originally posted by Existere
Being a superhero is -usually- a job that requires a high level of willpower in the first place. They're constantly put through hell and back in a myriad of different ways and all kinds of horror, stacked against the most ridiculous odds, etc.Bruce and Steve are each at the top of this willpower-fueled game, and at their level, it's pretty impossible to make a distinction between them since neither are ever written as anything but absolutely strong-willed.
That being said, I know for damn sure that the lines of argumentation made from the pro-Bruce side in this thread are a hell of a lot more persuasive than team Wolverine, considering that the latter seems to just counter with 'yeah but nuh-uh'.
Which in turn makes me think that there might be more to say for Batman's will...
Originally posted by ExistereHis will and resolve really are the focal point of his character, that pushed him from being a whimpering child who lost his parents into the goddamn Batman - nightmare to evil. It's not hard because many of his best story-lines revolve around it.
I pretty much feel the same way about this thread as I did about the otherThat being said, I know for damn sure that the lines of argumentation made from the pro-Bruce side in this thread are a hell of a lot more persuasive than team Wolverine, considering that the latter seems to just counter with 'yeah but nuh-uh'.
Which in turn makes me think that there might be more to say for Batman's will...
Originally posted by Juntai
His will and resolve really are the focal point of his character, that pushed him from being a whimpering child who lost his parents into the goddamn Batman - nightmare to evil. It's not hard because many of his best story-lines revolve around it.
The very same thing can be said of Wolverine.
Originally posted by ExistereA hero, as you defined, typically a job that requires a high level of willpower- Green Arrow once put on Kyle's ring and was able to momentarily create an arrow as a last ditch effort in a crossover GA/GL mini. Green Arrow pretty much collapsed after creating that with his will. It was meant to show a vast difference in the strength of will and control the rare Green Lantern has to have for his particular job over a typical hero.
I pretty much feel the same way about this thread as I did about the otherThat being said, I know for damn sure that the lines of argumentation made from the pro-Bruce side in this thread are a hell of a lot more persuasive than team Wolverine, considering that the latter seems to just counter with 'yeah but nuh-uh'.
Which in turn makes me think that there might be more to say for Batman's will...
Batman momentarily had a GL ring on and it nearly exploded with power and created all kinds of constructs before he took off.