Count Dooku Versus Revan

Originally posted by Arhael
Atris wasn't the Jedi Council and in Kotor 2 she proved to be unwise and turned to darkside, he just randomly met her in library.

But the more conservative Masters held a very different view. Some resented him for leading thousands of Jedi to their deaths in the war against the Mandalorians. Others could not forgive
him for the millions of Republic soldiers and citizens killed when he and Malak returned from the Unknown Regions as conquerors. Officially, he had been redeemed and returned to the light, but there were those who still felt he bore the indelible corruption of the dark side.

&

When she refused, some of them saw a familiar pattern: Revan
leading a promising young Jedi away from the accepted teachings of the Order.

Their marriage further exacerbated the situation. The Jedi Order opposed emotional attachments, believing they were a stepping-stone to destruction. They taught that love begat jealousy, which led to the dark side. But Revan had seen its redemptive powers firsthand. It was his love that had brought Bastila back to the light; their emotional bond had wrought salvation for both of them.

In fact, Revan did not led Bastilla to the dark path. Malak did.

And Revan played a vital role in bringing down a Sith Empire after redemption, which was threatening to destroy the Republic. But this was not enough to convince the senior figures in the Jedi Order. Their attitude made Revan feel like a intruder when he would go in to the Jedi Temple?

Originally posted by Arhael
Yes, I remember him approaching Council and being refused.

First; Mandalorian Wars
Second; new knowledge of the Force

Originally posted by Arhael
It, also, proved wrong for him to go against Order's.

And Mandalorians had to be stopped before it was too late.

Originally posted by Arhael
And as more mature and experienced Jedi he should have understood his mistake.

Originally posted by Arhael
Also, his memories were still not recovered to have any grudge about that matter.

Originally posted by Arhael
It wasn't but from many perspectives it looked correct and perfectly sound.

Fighting WRONG with WRONG does not makes much sense. This sounds like - hey some people are being oppressed by the corrupt elite - l shall rebel and lead a war which would threaten to destroy the Republic instead. What a fantastic solution. And what is more funny is that the rebellion is mainly comprised of droids instead of the oppressed.

Originally posted by Arhael
It's a common thing that remote planets suffer, while central planets blossom. And government was indeed overwhelmingly corrupted.

Originally posted by Arhael
I was talking about Dooku's time, when Sith were unknown and in hiding. When there was a lot of uncertainties, random conflicts, instability and no clear enemy. And suddenly you jump 20 years ahead, where Palpatine didn't need to hide anymore and republic is no more. You follow argument.

Originally posted by Arhael
Ones again it is selfish thing, which Bastilla was never interested in and never will. She was very good person with pure heart as selfless as Jedi could be. Revan wouldn't love her otherwise.

Their marriage further exacerbated the situation. The Jedi Order opposed emotional attachments, believing they were a stepping-stone to destruction. They taught that love begat jealousy, which led to the dark side. But Revan had seen its redemptive powers firsthand. It was his love that had brought Bastila back to the light; their emotional bond had wrought salvation for both of them.

Revan and Bastilla loved each other. This is what changed the situation during their second confrontation. Bastilla did not left the Sith due to the reasons you are trying to advocate here.

Originally posted by Arhael
I will give five to anybody on this forum, who will be able to convince you in anything.

Originally posted by Arhael
And you don't get my point. He lost his fate in Jedi and their philosophy before Sidius. Developed his own views and ideals. There was no Sith during his time as a Jedi. There is, also, saying don't judge a person by actions of others. Palpatine didn't need to seduce him. They had normal conversation and there was indeed a lot of common in their plans. The difference was in motives and, indeed it was stupid of him to underestimate treachery of Sith but he couldn't know how self-centering Palpatine was.

Originally posted by Arhael
Nice source. It shows that he had aim in life. That it wasn't just stupid lust for power, his goal of forming better government stayed the same but he got betrayed. Anakin on the other hand lost any meaning in his life with death of Padme. He was suffering his whole Vader time consumed by his aimless anger.

"I've seen your heart, and I know how empty it is. I've seen your anger, and I know how deep it is. I've seen your ambition, and I know how ruthless it is. And all of that will ultimately destroy you."

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Atris is just an example of how some prominent figures in the Jedi Order treated Revan.

But the more conservative Masters held a very different view. Some resented him for leading thousands of Jedi to their deaths in the war against the Mandalorians. Others could not forgive
him for the millions of Republic soldiers and citizens killed when he and Malak returned from the Unknown Regions as conquerors. Officially, he had been redeemed and returned to the light, but there were those who still felt he bore the indelible corruption of the dark side.

&

When she refused, some of them saw a familiar pattern: Revan
leading a promising young Jedi away from the accepted teachings of the Order.

Their marriage further exacerbated the situation. The Jedi Order opposed emotional attachments, believing they were a stepping-stone to destruction. They taught that love begat jealousy, which led to the dark side. But Revan had seen its redemptive powers firsthand. It was his love that had brought Bastila back to the light; their emotional bond had wrought salvation for both of them.

In fact, Revan did not led Bastilla to the dark path. Malak did.

And Revan played a vital role in bringing down a Sith Empire after redemption, which was threatening to destroy the Republic. But this was not enough to convince the senior figures in the Jedi Order. Their attitude made Revan feel like a intruder when he would go in to the Jedi Temple?

And not just once.

First; Mandalorian Wars
Second; new knowledge of the Force

Do you realize that the Mandalorian Wars paved the way for the discovery of the hiddern Sith, which was slowly but surely planning to destroy the Republic with the element of surprise on its side?

And Mandalorians had to be stopped before it was too late.

What mistake? He wad trying to solve a mystery. Unfortunately he got caught during his investigation and found himself imprisoned in Dromund Kaas itself - the heart of a Sith Empire. Your clear lack of understanding of the story of Revan' novel is the problem here.

Stupid comment. Revan wasn't blind to the realities around him. His missing memories have nothing to do with this. Revan' companions and even Malak gave him lot of insight about his PAST.

And which are these 'many perspectives'?

Fighting WRONG with WRONG does not makes much sense. This sounds like - hey some people are being oppressed by the corrupt elite - l shall rebel and lead a war which would threaten to destroy the Republic instead. What a fantastic solution. And what is more funny is that the rebellion is mainly comprised of droids instead of the oppressed.

And Count Dooku thought that Sith would be less corrupt? What a fool.

See above.

This does not disconnects from the fact that she embraced the Sith ideologies and was given an important position in the Sith Empire. She wanted Revan to join her actually. However;

Their marriage further exacerbated the situation. The Jedi Order opposed emotional attachments, believing they were a stepping-stone to destruction. They taught that love begat jealousy, which led to the dark side. But Revan had seen its redemptive powers firsthand. It was his love that had brought Bastila back to the light; their emotional bond had wrought salvation for both of them.

Revan and Bastilla loved each other. This is what changed the situation during their second confrontation. Bastilla did not left the Sith due to the reasons you are trying to advocate here.

Same is the situation with you.

And Count Dooku was silly enough to trust a Sith Lord. Right. Fools certainly don't learn from the history due to their own selfish ambitions.

Check this comment;

"I've seen your heart, and I know how empty it is. I've seen your anger, and I know how deep it is. I've seen your ambition, [B]and I know how ruthless it is. And all of that will ultimately destroy you." [/B]

I think that's what you're saying.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I... [b]think... that you're... saying Revan will win.

I think that's what you're saying. [/B]

😈

It seems like Revan is a few notches above Count Dooku, but a few notches below Yoda..

Which is odd considering Dooku is a only few notches below Yoda himself.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Which is odd considering Dooku is a only few notches below Yoda himself.

Well, you know what I mean. 😛

Can't decide.

Dooku.

Revan is about a whole tier above Dooku.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan is about a whole tier above Dooku.

In what ? Game mechanics ?

Revan's best feats aren't even game mechanics.

"As you already know, the Force is the real key to victory in any confrontation. However, the equation is not so simple. Someone well trained in lightsaber combat can defeat an opponent who is stronger in the Force. The Force allows you to anticipate your opponent’s moves and counter them with your own. But the more options your foe has available, the more difficult it is to predict which will be chosen.

--- Path of Destruction''

Revan loses bad in Sabers.

Give me a list of over 5 people who actually read what you say, and here's the kicker, then care about it.

Lmfao.

Revan gets schooled in a duel but they are roughly even in the Force.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Lmfao.

Originally posted by Marco1907
"As you already know, the Force is the real key to victory in any confrontation. However, the equation is not so simple. Someone well trained in lightsaber combat can defeat an opponent who is stronger in the Force. The Force allows you to anticipate your opponent’s moves and counter them with your own. But the more options your foe has available, the more difficult it is to predict which will be chosen.

--- Path of Destruction''

Revan loses bad in Sabers.

The problem iz than Revan iz pretty good at the light saber XD !!!!

Revan takes this one.

Originally posted by Revanchiste
The problem iz than Revan iz pretty good at the light saber XD !!!!

No where near good as Count.

Originally posted by Marco1907
"As you already know, the Force is the real key to victory in any confrontation. However, the equation is not so simple. Someone well trained in lightsaber combat can defeat an opponent who is stronger in the Force. The Force allows you to anticipate your opponent’s moves and counter them with your own. But the more options your foe has available, the more difficult it is to predict which will be chosen.

--- Path of Destruction''

Revan loses bad in Sabers.

"Can" doesn't mean will. Kas'im was foreshadowing his turnaround on Bane for when he brought out the dual sabers. Before that he say's the Force is the real key to victory.