Well I learned from this trial that you can kill people in Florida as long as they beat you up and get away with it...that was wrong.
So...I think I missed something during this trial but I still don't get the reasoning behind an all female jury...and believe me I know that question comes off sexist as hell but its an inquiry all the same.
gosh I'm such a jerk
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
In Florida, yes it is.If the precedences for this case are anything to go by.
Unless you are black, a woman, and don't actually kill anyone.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/19/marissa-alexander-gets-20_n_1530035.html
Originally posted by Bardock42
Unless you are black, a woman, and don't actually kill anyone.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/19/marissa-alexander-gets-20_n_1530035.html
I think trying to bring race into that is a bit of a cheap shot (I can't see any possible reason why her skin colour affected that case). That case was certainly another one that illustrates some of the insane sentencing laws the US has, though. A lot of legislators simply don't think about the stupid consequences of harsh mandatory minimums. There's a reason judges are meant to be able to show discretion in sentences.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Unless you are black, a woman, and don't actually kill anyone.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/19/marissa-alexander-gets-20_n_1530035.html
"A judge threw out Alexander's "stand your ground" self-defense claim, noting that she could have run out of the house to escape her husband but instead got the gun and went back inside."
So, uh, black people have a duty to retreat in Florida?
Although, again, if she'd simply killed them the case would probably have never made it to trial.
The US court system is racially biased, I don't think there's any doubt about that. We can say individual cases were not based on race all we want, overall it plays a major factor.
I agree however that the laws itself are also insane. What Zimmermann did should have been punishable, that there are laws that protect him is the fundamental issue (that he's also a racist and the police department is racist, while true, is secondary in this case)
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
"A judge threw out Alexander's "stand your ground" self-defense claim, noting that she could have run out of the house to escape her husband but instead got the gun and went back inside."So, uh, black people have a duty to retreat in Florida?
Although, again, if she'd simply killed them the case would probably have never made it to trial.
Well, possibly only because they wouldn't have been able to give testimony.
Her case was very different. She specifically went and got the gun after the argument started with the intent to fire it. That's nothing like the spontaneous self-defence claim that Zimmerman used (and the jury accepted). That pretty much makes her guilty. The stupid thing is the mandatory 20 year sentence for a relatively trivial offence that the judge can do nothing about.
There's no real legal answer to that problem, though (although in this particular case, shooting the son dead as well would have scotched a self-defence claim).
In a case like this-, if two people fight and one dies, and there is no clear idea of what actually happened, I think it is very difficult for a jury to convict.
It is a tragedy that Trayvon Martin's death will be inconsequential and Zimmerman will not have to answer for the repercussions of his actions, but the legal system did the best it could, Zimmerman received a fair trial, and he was presumed innocent until his guilt could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, which the prosecution could not establish. The outcome of the trial was undesirable, but it is what we will have to accept. What I think needs to be done now is that instead of attacking Zimmerman, we should start looking at the negative black stereotypes that led to Trayvon's death, and why they are so pervasive in American culture in the first place, which, IMO (I could be completely wrong about this) is because of the "rap culture" embraced by many African Americans which glorifies a lifestyle of crime, violence, misogyny, drug use, and disregard for social decency. I think this case proves that African Americans (and others) need to stop embracing this violent and unintelligent culture, as it only leads to the negative stereotypes which have resulted in Trayvon's death. Again, I could be completely wrong about this, and I'm sure someone can make a far more intelligent counter-argument. I'm just trying to discern and possibly extirpate the root of the problem.
Whilst there are some complex cultural issues involved with the race problem in America and why some blacks get pulled into an undesirable lifestyle (going back to Bill Cosby's speech here), I very much doubt an attitude of "Black people need to change so we stop feeling the need to shoot them" is really going to be the best way to look at improving the situation. Fair trial regardless, people are feeling like victims here.
People feel marginalised in US society, and that's really the root of it all. Not wanting to sound blase about that, but I actually think that's a self-solving problem. The Republican white male middle class dominating viewpoint is in decline anyway, and attitudes will change with it.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, possibly only because they wouldn't have been able to give testimony.Her case was very different. She specifically went and got the gun after the argument started with the intent to fire it. That's nothing like the spontaneous self-defence claim that Zimmerman used (and the jury accepted). That pretty much makes her guilty. The stupid thing is the mandatory 20 year sentence for a relatively trivial offence that the judge can do nothing about.
also the fact that, without the media hype, she had nowhere near the access to a quality defense team that Zimmerman did.
black or white, you can certainly pay for a not-guilty verdict in America all the same
"Mostly" peaceful protests in the wake of the verdict: