Originally posted by carver9
Lois was able to see the entire fight (during the time they were in Metropolis) all the way down to the last punch. I don't think they were fighting at super speed.
Show me a quote of Lois saying she could see every single punch. If you can't, then you have to go by what WAS said.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
But Hulk's can be ignored. kindaAnd for other people, so can Flash's, Superman's and Surfer's far superior and measurable combat superspeed feats that don't even rely on character statements.
If you can keep your premises straight, nobody's ignoring anything. Doomsday's fast. He isn't Flash-fast, Superman-fast or Hulk-fast+++++. He's got the same character statements General, Lobo, <insert random superbrick> that has romped through teams.
again, your stance is a bit....unclear. you seemed to be saying he was hulk-fast. now....he's NOT hulk+++++ fast? are you attributing him with superspeed? for that matter, are you attributing hulk with superspeed?
he is superman fast? no
flash? obviously not.
ss? clearly not.
is he a LOT faster than hulk? yes, imo.
legit superspeed--blur-level speed? yes, imo that much is clear. how fast is that exactly? i'm not sure tbh, but fast enough to not be completely overwhelmed by kal--in h2h at least.
^ He's Hulk fast. You're saying he's Hulk-fast+++++++. Which I sharply disagree with.
Then you disagree with Galan007. Get angry.
Than you disagree with h1a8. Get angry.
Then you disagree with Odekahn. Get angry.
Then you disagree with me. You're already angry. Clear blur-level speed? 😂 Where's he even depicted as a blur? At least Lobo has been. Sorry, but placing an arbitrary speed quotient on what level of superspeed is required to not be overwhelmed by Superman ignores all the other advantages that Doomsday had that primarily led to his ferocity: strength, durability, stamina. Basically the same as General who was fighting a stronger, faster Superman and romping him with the usual character statements and not getting overwhelmed by Superman's speed.
Originally posted by OdekahnDeflection. Hulk has the same comments. And he's got superior measurable speed feats. Quantity > quality. Particularly where the quantity keeps reinforcing the same thing repeatedly: he's a superfast, superagile superbrick. That's not an uncommon occurrence. I forgot you were the one that says Doomsday speedblitzes Surfer.
Has Hulk had near as many comments in a single story arc? Can I see some scans? Can I also see some scans of Silver Surfer's combat speed feats?I pointed out that DOS was Doomsday's debut because the story was establishing the character. The references were made because no one knew who he was or what kind of powers/abilities he had. It's obvious that he's faster than just another brick. The story clearly speaks it and it's within the fights. Just because the artwork isn't doing the fight proper justice doesn't take away from what's happening.
He is faster than just another brick. But not much, if at all, faster than General, Lobo, <insert random superbrick>. The story can clearly speak to the fact that he's a superfast, superagile superbrick. Arguing that the story is clearly portraying Doomsday as a superspeedster is rucking fetarded.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ He's Hulk fast. You're saying he's Hulk-fast+++++++. Which I sharply disagree with.Then you disagree with Galan007. Get angry.
Than you disagree with h1a8. Get angry.
Then you disagree with Odekahn. Get angry.Then you disagree with me. You're already angry. Clear blur-level speed? 😂 Where's he even depicted as a blur? At least Lobo has been. Sorry, but placing an arbitrary speed quotient on what level of superspeed is required to not be overwhelmed by Superman ignores all the other advantages that Doomsday had that primarily led to his ferocity: strength, durability, stamina. Basically the same as General who was fighting a stronger, faster Superman and romping him with the usual character statements and not getting overwhelmed by Superman's speed.
angry? 😕
not sure what you're going on about there.....
of course he had other advantages, but one of them was his ability to NOT be overwhelmed by supes's speed. if you want to take kal's greatest speed feats and ask--could supes'--at his best--make it impossible for dd to hit him than i'd probably say yeah, at least for a ltd time until he became tired and slowed to some less-than-optimal level. but he was inferred to be moving as a blur in battle--that's a pretty specific allusion. not sure why you're willing to cast it aside so easily. you kept referencing hulk. where has it ever been said he was a blur? that he couldn't be identified by an onlooker?
yeah, i'd say his speed far exceeds hulk's. and you STILL haven't taken any firm stance. so he's what? near-superhuman speed? where are YOU placing him exactly? sounds like you think he's faster than hulk now. so gimme someone comaparable. i already said thor/lobo-esque speed sounds fair imo. fast enough to not be overwhelmed by speed most of the time (always need to make allowances imo for higher end feats). not sure why you see that as such an unreasonable position, or why the reticence to acknowledge that he depicted--several times, as acknowledged by several chararacters--superspeed.
Originally posted by leonidasHow many bricks in their fights have not been overwhelmed by Superman's speed? Heck, Darkseid and Lobo at one point "overwhelmed" Superman with their own speed. Doomsday was not inferred to be moving as a blur. Superman hit him with a flying tackle into a convenience store. That's traveling speed, specifically, Superman's traveling speed. Ironically, Hulk's own traveling speed made him a blur:
angry? 😕not sure what you're going on about there.....
of course he had other advantages, but one of them was his ability to NOT be overwhelmed by supes's speed. if you want to take kal's greatest speed feats and ask--could supes'--at his best--make it impossible for dd to hit him than i'd probably say yeah, at least for a ltd time until he became tired and slowed to some less-than-optimal level. but he was inferred to be moving as a blur in battle--that's a pretty specific allusion. not sure why you're willing to cast it aside so easily. you kept referencing hulk. where has it ever been said he was a blur? that he couldn't be identified by an onlooker?
Originally posted by leonidasReread my prior post. I'm not accusing you of being obtuse. You just missed what I said in my first sentence. And that's not a pointedly snide remark. I've been discussing Doomsday's speed with multiple posters who have wildly varying positions. It's not making it easy for me to focus on my conclusion as, through no fault of anyone's really, I've got several different goalposts to deal with here. A common bottom-line though is this: not being overwhelmed by Superman in a fight =/= superspeed. Too many superbricks share that distinction. Character statements =/= superspeed. Hell, Darkseid was too fast for Superman to see and we all know he's not faster than Superman. Speed feats =/= superspeed. Otherwise, you're a superagile superbrick.
yeah, i'd say his speed far exceeds hulk's. and you STILL haven't taken any firm stance. so he's what? near-superhuman speed? where are YOU placing him exactly? sounds like you think he's faster than hulk now. so gimme someone comaparable. i already said thor/lobo-esque speed sounds fair imo. fast enough to not be overwhelmed by speed most of the time (always need to make allowances imo for higher end feats). not sure why you see that as such an unreasonable position, or why the reticence to acknowledge that he depicted--several times, as acknowledged by several chararacters--superspeed.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
How many bricks in their fights have not been overwhelmed by Superman's speed? Heck, Darkseid and Lobo at one point "overwhelmed" Superman with their own speed. Doomsday was not inferred to be moving as a blur. Superman hit him with a flying tackle into a convenience store. That's traveling speed, specifically, Superman's traveling speed. Ironically, Hulk's own traveling speed made him a blur:Reread my prior post. I'm not accusing you of being obtuse. You just missed what I said in my first sentence. And that's not a pointedly snide remark. I've been discussing Doomsday's speed with multiple posters who have wildly varying positions. It's not making it easy for me to focus on my conclusion as, through no fault of anyone's really, I've got several different goalposts to deal with here. A common bottom-line though is this: not being overwhelmed by Superman in a fight =/= superspeed. Too many superbricks share that distinction. Character statements =/= superspeed. Hell, Darkseid was too fast for Superman to see and we all know he's not faster than Superman. Speed feats =/= superspeed. Otherwise, you're a superagile superbrick.
Random Person in a store: "I... I think the red an blue blur is Superman. I don't wanna know what the other thing is!"
seems like a pretty clear inference to me. unless you think they meant supes was just moving around dd as a blur? doesn't make sense to me. given all the other statements his fighting supes at blur speed seems completely reasonable imo.
that hulk feat is pretty solid, but he's not fighting. could hulk achieve escape velocity? i'd say sure. but that's different from being unidentifable in a fight and having actual superspeed.
hulk DOES have some level of superspeed imo, btw. just not to the same extent as dd. lobo has some clear examples of superspeed. even darkseid could be said to have examples of superspeed. the interpretations of speed are semantical in many respects, and what qualifies as 'speed' differ too widely.
imo dd CAN move/run/fight at speeds that are a blur to humans. that clearly indicates superspeed to my mind. his speed is referenced often enough (and to a far greater ratio than hulk's when his number of appearances are factored in) to solidify that belief in my mind. just exactly how fast is a lot more difficult to pin down but high end thor or high end lobo seems reasonable to me. to be more specific--i think he's fast enough to negate most speed advantages that characters hold against him unless highest feats are brought to bear.
i could certainly not say the same about hulk.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Doomsday was not inferred to be moving as a blur. Superman hit him with a flying tackle into a convenience store. That's traveling speed, specifically, Superman's traveling speed.
It wasn't just travelling speed and a flyby.
"I... I think the red an blue blur is Superman. I don't wanna know what the other thing is!"
That's present tense.
It wasn't said "I think the red an blue thing WAS Superman"
The onlookers were watching the fight in the store and to them the combatants were blurs.
You're desperate if you refuse to acknowledge something when it's right in your face.
Originally posted by h1a8
Let's not forget the writer's intentions either. Clearly he wanted DD to at Superman's level of speed (fighting wise) or above. Otherwise why would he have someone say that he's faster than flash (the fastest being in the universe)?
Just like when the writer was clearly trying to get across the point that Thanos was stronger than Hulk and Thing combined when he smashed them together. Which you said no, he was trying to say that neck muscles aren't as stronger as arm muscles and that was ALL that was overpowered LULZ... No, the writer made it clear Thanos was above that hulk and thing in strength... You can't have it both ways buddy.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Has anyone of grade A super speed ever complain of Hulk's speed and be shown to not even see them move? Has Hulk hit 5 or more people simultaneously (including someone of Superman's speed level)? Note: That is a very legit high level speed feat. Has anyone claimed that Hulk was faster than the fastest being in Marvel?
Deflection. Hulk has the same comments. And he's got superior measurable speed feats. Quantity > quality. Particularly where the quantity keeps reinforcing the same thing repeatedly: he's a superfast, superagile superbrick. That's not an uncommon occurrence. I forgot you were the one that says Doomsday speedblitzes Surfer.He is faster than just another brick. But not much, if at all, faster than General, Lobo, <insert random superbrick>. The story can clearly speak to the fact that he's a superfast, superagile superbrick. Arguing that the story is clearly portraying Doomsday as a superspeedster is rucking fetarded.
If the writer was indeed trying to portray DD as being as fast as Superman (or faster) in battle speed then you are saying that he did a shitty job trying to show it. If so, then how could he have shown it?
Actually its astronomically more rucking fetarded to believe that DD wasn't being portrayed as a superspeedster in DOS. Because everyone who read it initially got that impression. Do a poll (Did you believe DD was a superspeedster after you first read DOS?) and you will see clearly.
You are a decent debater, but here you are clearly wrong. And I'm afraid you don't have the humility to admit it if you saw it. And that's worst than almost anything in life (being too proud).
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Just like when the writer was clearly trying to get across the point that Thanos was stronger than Hulk and Thing combined when he smashed them together. Which you said no, he was trying to say that neck muscles aren't as stronger as arm muscles and that was ALL that was overpowered LULZ... No, the writer made it clear Thanos was above that hulk and thing in strength... You can't have it both ways buddy.
Selective memory for you? I abandoned that argument about the neck muscles. Don't you remember? I agreed with you dude. Geez. My new argument was that Professor Hulk and Thing aren't as strong as Superman so it is irrelevant if Thanos was stronger. But know that in the same series that Thanos was physically restrained by Hulk. But I and everyone here agrees that Thanos is stronger than Professor Hulk and Thing. You get no argument there from anyone here (including me).
Originally posted by Odekahn
It wasn't just travelling speed and a flyby."I... I think the red an blue blur is Superman. I don't wanna know what the other thing is!"
That's present tense.
It wasn't said "I think the red an blue thing WAS Superman"
The onlookers were watching the fight in the store and to them the combatants were blurs.
You're desperate if you refuse to acknowledge something when it's right in your face.
Originally posted by carver9
When couldn't they touch him? You are using Hyperbole statements from Boostergold.Yes, Surfer is faster.
Actually, Booster Gold's statement MAY have been hyperbole, but for it's time, it might have been literal. At the time Flash was a lot slower than today, IIRC because of mental blocks from dealing with Barry's death. He was limited more to the supersonic range. Still pretty fast. Was Doomsday this fast? Maybe, maybe not.
But as for when couldn't they touch him? Well, Superman, J'Onn/Bloodwynd and Maxima, all beings who have varying degrees of super speed, had trouble connecting. Not that they could NEVER hit him, but it wasn't easy. Superman even made a statement about having to kick things up IIRC. Doomsday honestly seemed comparable or faster than Spider-Man during DEATH OF SUPERMAN, but not nearly as acrobatic, obviously. I think a good question would be, is Silver Surfer faster than Spider-Man? Travel speed? Yes. Combat speed?
Not so much. And sure, Doomsday won't be fighting the same way as Spider-Man, but he still has the speed to overwhelm Surfer if he so chooses.
Someone already pointed-out Doomsday killing an intangible energy being, so even if this doesn't directly work against Surfer phasing, Doomsday's adaptive evolution can modify it's self to compensate. He may or may not have already developed an ability to counter Martian Manhunter's intangibility.
I'm not seeing Surfer being able to dish-out powerful enough energy attacks to take down Doomsday.
Molecular manipulation? Doomsday might be resistant from sheer durability, and his adaptive evolution would most likely compensate for any lackings, assuming Surfer could use it on Doomsday(I've never seen him offensively use it on a living organism, so I dunno if he even theoretically could use it effectively even if Doomsday lacked his adaptive power).
Physically? Nope, Surfer can't cut it hand-to-hand without some MAJOR boost. And Doomsday's been shown to have dynamic strength as well.
Really, Surfer's best bet here is BFRing Doomsday.
