CISless Surfer vs HP Doomsday

Originally posted by carver9
Lol at this post. Superman wasnt close to light speed during that era, not even close.

Example. Flash had to lend him his speed so that they can make a plan in a second.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/plansec.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/plansec2.jpg

Superman even admits back then that he can't go light speed.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff102/Wally_Respect2/lendsupli.jpg

No telling how fast Superman was back then but its not faster than some of the people Hulk has tagged moving at super speed.

Pointless scan.

Pr is right about how horrible you are at misinterpreting scans.

First-off, prove that Flash was lending him speed. Go on. Prove it. Your scans only prove that he's lending Hippolyta(sp?) speed. He doesn't say he's lending the group speed. Note that Wonder Woman(since this isn't Diana) is the only one who doesn't have any significant speed in the group. She's also the only one Wally states he's lending the speed to. Note in your own scans that their plan has to do with the Lasso of Truth. Otherwise, ya know, Wally could've lent the entire team speed.

You're also wrong about the time frame. This was not around the time of DEATH OF SUPERMAN. This comes from an issue of Grant Morrison's JLA reboot(although Mark Waid is the one who wrote this storyline). This is the 20ish area of the run. JLA #1 came-out what? 1997? The actual issue your scans are from are from around 1999. DEATH OF SUPERMAN happened late 1992. So, no, your scan is not of Superman's speed around the time of DOS, and your interpretation is incorrect to begin with. Superman has indeed several feats that prove he can think, react and perform complex tasks at speeds greater than normal speed thought.

And while your scan about Superman needing Wally to lend him speed to go FTL is legit, there's at least one scan from before this of Superman going FTL(even if it's a flight speed feat) under his own power. And it's actually well before the fight with Doomsday. Superman outraces the Omega Beams, and he's actually flying around at angles and all and curves, not just straight-line speed.

Good Lord, it's bad enough you misinterpreted the scan, that you're ignorant that there's examples from before and after that support Superman goes faster than thought under his own power, but you can't even get the era right? Didn't the fact that it wasn't Diana as Wonder Woman give it away? Or are you too ignorant to even figure that it wasn't Diana in the first place?

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, its from hunter/prey 3.

Is it? I just looked through HUNTER/PREY Book Three AGAIN(has to be over half a dozen times) looking for that scene, and I cannot find it. Not only that, but the art style and coloring look different. And look at where Superman says the Hunter suit amplifies his natural abilities. He's clean-"shaved." Yet all through-out HUNTER/PREY Book Three, he's scruffy like this.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=hacsahunter-prey-03-05.jpg

I counted, from when Superman gets the Hunter suit up until Waverider reverts things to give him back his old costume(in tact) and fixed his broken arm, there were all of about 7 panels where we can see his face and Superman didn't have a scruff. And only one of them looked like a mistake, every other panel either had his face partially obscured, or it was a distance shot where it would've been too small to come through well. And that one scene that simply looked like a mistake, it did NOT resemble the scan Galan showed.

So, this coupled with the fact that both the art style and shading to the color look different, it looks like it was from a different comic, flashback scene to HUNTER/PREY.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Pr is right about how horrible you are at misinterpreting scans.

First-off, prove that Flash was lending him speed. Go on. Prove it. Your scans only prove that he's lending Hippolyta(sp?) speed. He doesn't say he's lending the group speed. Note that Wonder Woman(since this isn't Diana) is the only one who doesn't have any significant speed in the group. She's also the only one Wally states he's lending the speed to. Note in your own scans that their plan has to do with the Lasso of Truth. Otherwise, ya know, Wally could've lent the entire team speed.

You're also wrong about the time frame. This was not around the time of DEATH OF SUPERMAN. This comes from an issue of Grant Morrison's JLA reboot(although Mark Waid is the one who wrote this storyline). This is the 20ish area of the run. JLA #1 came-out what? 1997? The actual issue your scans are from are from around 1999. DEATH OF SUPERMAN happened late 1992. So, no, your scan is not of Superman's speed around the time of DOS, and your interpretation is incorrect to begin with. Superman has indeed several feats that prove he can think, react and perform complex tasks at speeds greater than normal speed thought.

And while your scan about Superman needing Wally to lend him speed to go FTL is legit, there's at least one scan from before this of Superman going FTL(even if it's a flight speed feat) under his own power. And it's actually well before the fight with Doomsday. Superman outraces the Omega Beams, and he's actually flying around at angles and all and curves, not just straight-line speed.

Good Lord, it's bad enough you misinterpreted the scan, that you're ignorant that there's examples from before and after that support Superman goes faster than thought under his own power, but you can't even get the era right? Didn't the fact that it wasn't Diana as Wonder Woman give it away? Or are you too ignorant to even figure that it wasn't Diana in the first place?

Originally posted by Delta1938
Is it? I just looked through HUNTER/PREY Book Three AGAIN(has to be over half a dozen times) looking for that scene, and I cannot find it. Not only that, but the art style and coloring look different. And look at where Superman says the Hunter suit amplifies his natural abilities. He's clean-"shaved." Yet all through-out HUNTER/PREY Book Three, he's scruffy like this.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=hacsahunter-prey-03-05.jpg

I counted, from when Superman gets the Hunter suit up until Waverider reverts things to give him back his old costume(in tact) and fixed his broken arm, there were all of about 7 panels where we can see his face and Superman didn't have a scruff. And only one of them looked like a mistake, every other panel either had his face partially obscured, or it was a distance shot where it would've been too small to come through well. And that one scene that simply looked like a mistake, it did NOT resemble the scan Galan showed.

So, this coupled with the fact that both the art style and shading to the color look different, it looks like it was from a different comic, flashback scene to HUNTER/PREY.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Where's that from? I looked all through HUNTER/PREY #3 and couldn't find that scene, and taking a closer look at it, the art doesn't match-up. Is it from a flashback of HUNTER/PREY in another comic?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nope, I just reread it. Its from the same comic. Maybe your copy is missing a few pages.

Originally posted by Galan007
It's from a Kenner/DC one-shot called "Doomsday is Coming". It was published a year or so after H/P.

ibhilegend's face:

Originally posted by Galan007
It's from a Kenner/DC one-shot called Doomsday is Coming--also written by Dan Jurgens. It was published a year or so after H/P.

Thank you. It was driving me crazy trying to find the scene.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
ibhilegend's face:

i was actually very much in need of a laugh. thanks pg.

.

Originally posted by Galan007
It's from a Kenner/DC one-shot called Doomsday is Coming--also written by Dan Jurgens. It was published a year or so after H/P.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
ibhilegend's face:

Originally posted by abhilegend
I have actually downloaded every appearance of doomsday till IC in a single cbr file

Originally posted by Galan007
They're not the individual files/comics? That's f*cking stupid.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its the medicins.😮
I have actually downloaded every appearance of doomsday till IC in a single cbr file, so couldn't tell the difference.

Does this mean you've learned your lesson to listen to me next time I go into extreme and obsessive detail? And shame on you, if you thought you had actually come across the scene, you could've told me what page it was!! Even though you'd have been--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

--it's the thought that would've counted. 😠

Originally posted by Delta1938
Does this mean you've learned your lesson to listen to me next time I go into extreme and obsessive detail? And shame on you, if you thought you had actually come across the scene, you could've told me what page it was!! Even though you'd have been--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

--it's the thought that would've counted. 😠

Originally posted by abhilegend

Originally posted by abhilegend
I was a noob then.😮

Originally posted by abhilegend

Well, I guess I have to forgive you when you're sending adorable kittens to do your dirty work. And to show my forgiveness, enjoy this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgewyPhGYHM

Originally posted by psycho gundam
let's think about this for a sec: all of death of superman and hunter/prey, then zero hour happens resulting in reviving doomsday ........ALL IN THE SAME COMIC???

Originally posted by Odekahn
It wasn't just travelling speed and a flyby.

"I... I think the red an blue blur is Superman. I don't wanna know what the other thing is!"

That's present tense.

It wasn't said "I think the red an blue thing WAS Superman"

The onlookers were watching the fight in the store and to them the combatants were blurs.

You're desperate if you refuse to acknowledge something when it's right in your face.

The following scan is not on-panel proof that Doomsday fights with superspeed movements making him a blur to onlookers. This scan is on-panel proof that Superman can tackle Doomsday with flight at speeds that make them blurs. It's a traveling speed feat. And it's Superman's traveling speed feat:

This isn't any proof that Doomsday is fighting at superspeeds than this is proof that Thor is fighting at superspeeds:

It's exactly what you said it wasn't: a traveling speed feat and a flyby. I can't explain it any clearer without being patronistic. And the scene itself is supremely self-evident that I shouldn't have to explain it.

Originally posted by leonidas
seems like a pretty clear inference to me. unless you think they meant supes was just moving around dd as a blur? doesn't make sense to me. given all the other statements his fighting supes at blur speed seems completely reasonable imo.

that hulk feat is pretty solid, but he's not fighting. could hulk achieve escape velocity? i'd say sure. but that's different from being unidentifable in a fight and having actual superspeed.

Irony is ironic. Hulk can achieve escape velocity with his leaps. He's also jumped hundreds of miles in the space of seconds. But you're right. Traveling speed feats are pretty solid, but he's not fighting. Same with Doomsday in that scene.

Originally posted by leonidas
hulk DOES have some level of superspeed imo, btw. just not to the same extent as dd. lobo has some clear examples of superspeed. even darkseid could be said to have examples of superspeed. the interpretations of speed are semantical in many respects, and what qualifies as 'speed' differ too widely.

imo dd CAN move/run/fight at speeds that are a blur to humans. that clearly indicates superspeed to my mind. his speed is referenced often enough (and to a far greater ratio than hulk's when his number of appearances are factored in) to solidify that belief in my mind. just exactly how fast is a lot more difficult to pin down but high end thor or high end lobo seems reasonable to me. to be more specific--i think he's fast enough to negate most speed advantages that characters hold against him unless highest feats are brought to bear.

i could certainly not say the same about hulk.

Doomsday never appeared as a blur on-panel to my recollection. Nobody referred to him as a blur either (aside from when he was tackled at superspeeds by a flying Superman). I don't disagree he's got speed that complements his power enough such that it makes it extraordinarily hard for superspeedsters to fight him. But that's more a testament to his sheer power and the deadly combination that sheer power presents when coupled with surprising speed (not superspeedster speed).

And the exact same thing could be said of the Hulk. And it has. On-panel. Moreover, it's been reinforced by measurable speed feats. Not just character statements.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, its from hunter/prey 3.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He's as ignorant as they come. For years he tried to prove that superman's top speed is 2000 mps.😐
Nope, I just reread it. Its from the same comic. Maybe your copy is missing a few pages.

Originally posted by Galan007
It's from a Kenner/DC one-shot called Doomsday is Coming--also written by Dan Jurgens. It was published a year or so after H/P.

Originally posted by Galan007
They're not the individual files/comics? That's f*cking stupid.

Originally posted by Delta1938

You have yet to show the Power Ring was a factor against the GUARDIAN. You certainly haven't shown how it was still a factor when it was destroyed.

The ring responded immediately to him and he can't do this without the ring anyway. Can Doomsday fly without the ring ?

Nope.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=DA1_41.jpg

So, you're saying the Power Ring was amping him when the blast tore a hole in space, despite the fact that it's destroyed?[/B]

So, Doomsday adapting to the Guardian's energy is irrelevant because he had a Power Ring? What about when it was destroyed?[/B]

And I think I get your argument now on the Power Ring. You mean about Doomsday was adapting to the Guardian's energy because he was exposed to the Power Ring's energy(which as far as I'm aware, is less powerful but the same type of energy the Guardians have), both it's and the Rings of other GLs? Well, that would mean he was building-up resistance/tolerance to it. Still, Doomsday's tough enough to take Surfer's blasts, and if he's adapting to them too, just means they'll be less effective as the fight goes on. As for "exotic attacks working," I guess we have different definitions of "exotic." I don't think of typical energy blasts as exotic, like Waverider freezing time. But the Imperiex Prime argument is irrelevant, unless you're trying to argue that Surfer is on-part with Imperiex Prime? Last I checked, the topic was about Surfer, not Galactus, fighting Doomsday.[/B]

Superman has survived through wormholes during this era and was apparently amped by a Mother Box, Waverider is a being made-up of chronol(sp?) energy. This isn't a valid argument. And there's a difference between surviving the initial exposure and surviving existence being obliterated. So, the question still stands. Did the writer's opinion contradict his story, or are you arguing Superman's more powerful than Entropy? If you're gonna nitpick, is Superman more powerful than the gravitational forces we see them exposed to in my scans?[/B]

And not sure what you're referring to on Imperiex Prime using a "specific attack" as opposed to "blanket power." The comparison to Imperiex Prime is irrelevant, unless you're trying to argue that Surfer is close to IP in power.[/B]

And Surfer doing well against Hulk? Hulk has been the ONLY brick I've seen Surfer consistently do well against. Thor? Haven't seen any of their recent fights, but Thor isn't as strong as Doomsday.
[/B]

And I'm guessing you misread what I wrote about teleportation? I never said Doomsday adapts to teleportation. I said Surfer wins via BFR unless there's something cheesy like Doomsday developing his own teleportational power to deal with Surfer BFRing him. So, no, no wishful thinking, especially because I was giving the only example I can think of for Doomsday to consistently and effectively counter Surfer BFRing him and saying it was a cheesy example.

Or are you just nitpicking TO argue over something? [/B]

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
crackers

The following scan is not on-panel proof that Doomsday fights with superspeed movements making him a blur to onlookers. This scan is on-panel proof that Superman can tackle Doomsday with flight at speeds that make them blurs. It's a traveling speed feat. And it's Superman's traveling speed feat:

This isn't any proof that Doomsday is fighting at superspeeds than this is proof that Thor is fighting at superspeeds:

Look at the artwork. Superman is flying at super speed in what you just linked (as you've admitted). Yet the drawing itself doesn't show any blur-like qualities. You're simply going by what was said on panel, which is exactly the point I've been trying to make to you.

In fact, the small trail like art that IS shown is exactly the same kind that follows Doomsday when he leaps in the air after the chopper, and the kind that follows his attacks in various scenes.

This is despite my previous post, which showed you quotes from other characters for the purpose of establishing who and what Doomsday is.