Originally posted by carver9
Quan is in here owning.
Not really.
He is either being misleading by picking and choosing highs and lows to sell his side or he is using stupid logic that makes no sense.
The former makes him slick and reveals his great bias against D.C. in favor of Marvel. Maybe he works for Marvel and his job is to (well you know).
Originally posted by quanchi112
Read the scan. If you want to ignore the dialogue because you love Doomsday by all means.
This explains a lot.
Your reading comprehension must be at the level of a preschooler if you think that scan meant anything other than Imperiex considering Doomsday and Superman to be bacteria.
It's exactly the same analogy as the Monitors considering the multiverse a germ.
Wow. Epic reading fail.
facepalm2
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
What does the tense of "was/is" have anything to do with the scene in question? Being tackled in a straight line by a flyer flying at superspeeds isn't proof that the "tacklee" is fighting at superspeeds.Are you trying to rule out that the onlookers only saw a blur of Superman/Doomsday as a result of how fast Superman was flying? You've offered no justification to do so. And I think it's ridiculous that I'm being asked to prove that they were not moving at blurring speeds whereby onlookers couldn't see them (and not because of straight-line flying speed). That's essentially proving a negative where you guys are the ones trying to assert varying levels of superspeed, e.g., Flash-level, Superman-level, Surfer-level, Hulk++++ level. Shifting the burden of proof on me isn't a winning strategy.
Particularly when I can actually make a strong argument and prove the negative. The Metropolis SCU who were attacking Doomsday had no issue finding their aim and targeting Doomsday successfully here, or here, or here, or here:
The one time the Metropolis SCU characters stated they had trouble targeting Doomsday? Superman is once again flying Doomsday through walls at high traveling speeds:
Trying to force these types of examples of Superman's traveling speed down our throats that they represent Doomsday's combat superspeed is horrendous. Superman's traveling speed =/= Doomsday's combat superspeed. And I'm tired of proving the negative -- especially when we're talking character statements!
What the tense has to do with the scene is that it tells you if the fight was taking place where the onlookers could watch or if it was merely a flyby. The tense has everything to do with what's going on, not just on that panel but on the panels before and after.
And are you trying to use SCU hitting DD as proof of him lacking superspeed? Because if you are, then the Flash doesn't have superspeed either because he's been hit by people without superspeed as well.
To pull a page out of your book for a second... To read the story and deny what is so obviously the writer's blantantly obvious intent is 'rucking fetarded'.
Originally posted by OdekahnIt really doesn't. And I'm not entertaining semantics any longer on this point. If you can't agree that it's even possible that the onlookers were seeing blurs because of Superman's flying speed, you're lost.
What the tense has to do with the scene is that it tells you if the fight was taking place where the onlookers could watch or if it was merely a flyby. The tense has everything to do with what's going on, not just on that panel but on the panels before and after.And are you trying to use SCU hitting DD as proof of him lacking superspeed? Because if you are, then the Flash doesn't have superspeed either because he's been hit by people without superspeed as well.
To pull a page out of your book for a second... To read the story and deny what is so obviously the writer's blantantly obvious intent is 'rucking fetarded'.
Don't be insipid. I entertained your notions to prove a negative, that they were not moving at blurring speeds whereby onlookers couldn't see them. They could be seen by one consistent group of onlookers just fine, i.e., the Metropolis SCU. The one time they couldn't, was when Superman again flew Doomsday in a straight line at high traveling speeds. If you can't get the inference, that's your problem.
Yeah, that Doomsday is Flash-level fast, Superman-level fast, Surfer-level fast. That's decidedly not what was shown. Doomsday was shown to be a fast superbrick. Not a superspeedster. And a scene where Superman flies Doomsday in a straight line at high traveling speeds =/= combat superspeed feat for Doomsday. To say otherwise, is ducking fumb.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Experienced a 'slowdown'? How'd you gather that?
Superman stated at the very end, where he was already near death and had experienced a slowdown, that he needed to up his speed.
Originally posted by quanchi112Brainiac-controlled Doomsday IS DD Wars Doomsday, Einstein. Without Brainiac's mind, he's just regular 'ol H/P Doomsday.
That's Brainiac controlled DD. He's far more formidable than the stupid brute that id Doomsday.
Originally posted by quanchi112😂 Again: Brainiac-controlled Doomsday IS DD Wars Doomsday, Einstein. Without Brainiac's mind, he's just regular 'ol H/P Doomsday.
Here's regular DD against Superman.The way he's casually beat is nowhere near the level of difficulty it took in hp. The reason DD was so formidable in this arc was combining Brainiac's intelligence into his body.
Additionally, you posted scans of Superman sneaking up from behind Doomsday (as DD was fighting J'onn/Orion), and pushing him into the teleportation booths. That is NO different then H/P Superman hitting DD from behind at maximum speed and driving him into a wall:
And you seem to be ignoring the fact that 'regular' DD casually caught Superman's punch, and OWNED him with a single shot:
Anyway, DD Wars Doomsday (who, again, is H/P DD with Brainiac's mind) is >> H/P Doomsday.
Originally posted by Galan007Too exhausted to avoid falling debris in response to Guardian's concern. Didn't fly people free from a burning building, and stood as a shield because at least he could do that in his own words. Set Lois' and Jimmy's helicopter like 15 feet away from Doomsday (lol) because he didn't have time. Those are just the obvious instances, etc. Other than the whole, y'know, Superman's gotten the holy sh1t kicked out of him for several issues and can't have been reasonably expected to be operating at peak conditions.
Experienced a 'slowdown'? How'd you gather that?
^ So you're not basing your opinion off of anything Supes (or anyone else for that matter) actually said? Because in my opinion, that was the issue in which Superman turned up the heat to appropriate levels, and decided he needed to kill DD (and I am basing that opinion off of Superman's comments.) /shrug
I thought we weren't supposed to talk about Doomsday's speed anymore??
If we are still, then I'd say it's pretty clear that the writer was trying to show you that Doomsday was SUPERfast enough to take out a very fast Superman and Justice League. Otherwise the writer wouldn't have written it with such abundance. So far I've seen somewhere around 6 instances in a single arc (DOS) that rams that point home. No where have I seen that much with Hulk, who has also tagged Surfer. So essentially we're talking about a much stronger-based Hulk with a higher speed set fighting against Surfer.
I don't see Surfer winning this.
PS. This has to have been the most entertaining thread read regarding comics I have had the experience of enjoying in a long time.
Originally posted by Galan007I was actually referencing what Superman said. And, more importantly, what he did in those specific situations. I'd suggest you reread those scenes. I don't have access to my scans now.
^ So you're not basing your opinion off of anything Supes (or anyone else for that matter) actually said? Because in my opinion, that was the issue in which Superman turned up the heat to appropriate levels, and decided he needed to kill DD (and I am basing that opinion off of Superman's comments.) /shrug
Originally posted by OneDumbG0I just did. My opinion stands. The only time Superman referenced being 'weaker' was at the very end of the battle--a few pages before he and DD delivered their final blows... But he spoke about having to speed up in order to match DD at the beginning of the issue--around the time when he was flying so fast that the sentinels couldn't lock on to him.
I was actually referencing what Superman said. And, more importantly, what he did in those specific situations. I'd suggest you reread those scenes. I don't have access to my scans now.
^ . . . . .
Luckily Blight can scan them. Two of these instances occur before even the final issue. The first being, from two issues prior, and I paraphrase: "Superman? Why didn't you fly away from the collapsing rubble?"
"I was... too exhausted... need to catch my breath..."
*enter Doomsday emerging from the ground and wrecking the place and Superman being ko'ed*
If you really think Superman was never weaker before the final issue, I really have no interest in discussing this with you. I find the assertion unilaterally absurd.
And for the last time, being tackled in a straight line by a flyer flying at superspeeds isn't proof that the "tacklee" is fighting at superspeeds or the "tackler." Too fast for humans to target them is supposed to convince me that Superman was flying near peak traveling speeds and, therefore, hadn't lost a step? Please.
^ What makes that any different from any superbrick doing the same to <insert cocky overconfident hero>? Freaking Hal Jordan didn't even see Batman take his ring off him until Batman pointed it out! Just... UGH.
Originally posted by Blight... I, what? Just, no. If wikipedia serves me correctly, the Project Cadmus scene where Superman admits to Guardian he was too tired to escape the falling debris was in Action Comics #684. The burning building scene is in Superman: Man of Steel #19, and Superman setting Lois and Jimmy down right next to Doomsday (again, lol) was in Superman #75.
I'm trying to find the page. Is this during the interview with that chick?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0You are digging deep to try and prove a non-existent point. Doomsday was FAST. Fast enough that the writer had multiple characters make multiple comments regarding just how fast he was. You're blatantly ignoring said comments/actions, and are opting to self-neuter DD's speed with your own conjecture instead. That is what I would call a 'unilaterally absurd assertion'.
^ . . . . .Luckily Blight can scan them. Two of these instances occur before even the final issue. The first being, from two issues prior, and I paraphrase: "Superman? Why didn't you fly away from the collapsing rubble?"
"I was... too exhausted... need to catch my breath..."
*enter Doomsday emerging from the ground and wrecking the place and Superman being ko'ed*
If you really think Superman was never weaker before the final issue, I really have no interest in discussing this with you. I find the assertion unilaterally absurd.
And for the last time, being tackled in a straight line by a flyer flying at superspeeds isn't proof that the "tacklee" is fighting at superspeeds or the "tackler." Too fast for humans to target them is supposed to convince me that Superman was flying near peak traveling speeds and, therefore, hadn't lost a step? Please.
Either way, I agree that there is no point discussing this with you any further. Bada already expressed his views regarding this topic in another thread, anyway.
Originally posted by Galan007
You are digging deep to try and prove a non-existent point. Doomsday was FAST. Fast enough that the writer had multiple characters make multiple comments regarding just how fast he was. You're blatantly ignoring said comments/actions, and are opting to self-neuter DD's speed with your own conjecture instead. That is what I would call a 'unilaterally absurd assertion'.Either way, I agree that there is no point discussing this with you any further. Bada already expressed his views regarding this topic in another thread, anyway.
I agree. It would be something if it were one off hand remark, but It's in every issue I'm reading right now.
Hulk does NOT get that kind of treatment in that short of time...
Alas, I will get those scans because I said I would.
[Edit] HAHAH I just read the part where Maxima said she wouldn't be caught by surprise again and then.......... got caught by surprise? I think that says speed since apparently she was ready for the attack and he still surprised her with it.........
Oh wait, you said it's at Cadmus. Hold on, sorry.
