Originally posted by Galan007Don't blame this debacle on me. You're the one who kept pressing the point that Superman's comment about having to up his speed in Superman #75 is somehow proof that Doomsday was fighting at (or near) Superman's peak combat superspeeds.
You are digging deep to try and prove a non-existent point. Doomsday was FAST. Fast enough that the writer had multiple characters make multiple comments regarding just how fast he was. You're blatantly ignoring said comments/actions, and are opting to self-neuter DD's speed with your own conjecture instead. That is what I would call a 'unilaterally absurd assertion'.Either way, I agree that there is no point discussing this with you any further. Bada already expressed his views regarding this topic in another thread, anyway.
Instead of proving that up by simply pointing to feats where Superman's clearly operating at his peak combat superspeeds (which you obviously can't or you would've), you tried to shift the burden to me and force me to prove the negative: prove Superman was not or could not be operating (or referencing) his peak combat superspeeds at that time.
That you can't accept the simple inference that he wasn't because he got the sh1t kicked out of him for three issues, knocked out like, what, three times??? and bleeding like a stuck pig wasn't enough. Somehow, I've got to find affirmative evidence Superman wasn't operating at peak superspeeds, much less peak conditions by the final issue. Then you take me to task for digging for those statements? Seriously? It's nto enough that you want me to prove a negative, now you're offended that I am actually doing so?
You're opinion on this matter is completely insulting. So is your logic and backhanded fallacies and double-standards. Apart from Wolverithmetics, I've never seen the like. So, no, there really is no point in discussing it with you.
Character statements =/= feats. Flying in a straight line, or being flown in a straight line at traveling superspeed =/= combat superspeed. There's no need to microanalyze this -- as much as y'all hope that microanalysis will somehow prove otherwise (hint: it won't). That's fundamentally all there is here: character statements. And that it's being stretched to Flash-level superspeed, Superman-level superspeed, Surfer-level superspeed, or Hulk++++-level superspeed highlights what empirical worth those character statements merit.
I'm bored.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Don't blame this debacle on me. You're the one who kept pressing the point that Superman's comment about having to up his speed in Superman #75 is somehow proof that Doomsday was fighting at (or near) Superman's peak combat superspeeds.Instead of proving that up by simply pointing to feats where Superman's clearly operating at his peak combat superspeeds (which you obviously can't or you would've), you tried to shift the burden to me and force me to prove the negative: prove Superman was not or could not be operating (or referencing) his peak combat superspeeds at that time.
That you can't accept the simple inference that he wasn't because he got the sh1t kicked out of him for three issues, knocked out like, what, three times??? and bleeding like a stuck pig wasn't enough. Somehow, I've got to find affirmative evidence Superman wasn't operating at peak superspeeds, much less peak conditions by the final issue. Then you take me to task for digging for those statements? Seriously? It's nto enough that you want me to prove a negative, now you're offended that I am actually doing so?
You're opinion on this matter is completely insulting. So is your logic and backhanded fallacies and double-standards. Apart from Wolverithmetics, I've never seen the like. So, no, there really is no point in discussing it with you.
Character statements =/= feats. Flying in a straight line, or being flown in a straight line at travelin superspee =/= combat superspeed. There's no need to microanalyze this -- as much as y'all hope that microanalysis will somehow prove otherwise (hint: it won't). That's fundamentally all there is here: character statements. And that it's being stretched to Flash-level superspeed, Superman-level superspeed, Surfer-level superspeed, or Hulk++++-level superspeed highlights what empirical worth those character statements merit.
I'm bored.
Okay I see him talking to guardian after Maxima gets punked. Is this what you were referencing??
Oh wait you said it's at cadmus. Hold on, sorry.
Originally posted by Badabing
likeHope everything is going well.
Swimmingly, Bada. How are you?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ . . . . .Keep reading. To the point where they're at Project Cadmus and Doomsday knocks Superman out for like the third time during Death of Superman.
Okay, I have to admit, watching this fight its clear that Doomsday is not on par with Superman's speed. Superman is doing everything he can with his speed to keep doomsday off his feet. However I will not admit this doesn't mean Doomsday doesn't have super speed, just not on par with Supermans. Only enough to make him remark at how fast he is going...
Originally posted by OneDumbG0😂 @ this whole post. Writer intent via Doomsday's actions+REPEATED character statements are blatantly clear. DD has remarkable combat speed. Get over it.
Don't blame this debacle on me. You're the one who kept pressing the point that Superman's comment about having to up his speed in Superman #75 is somehow proof that Doomsday was fighting at (or near) Superman's peak combat superspeeds.Instead of proving that up by simply pointing to feats where Superman's clearly operating at his peak combat superspeeds (which you obviously can't or you would've), you tried to shift the burden to me and force me to prove the negative: prove Superman was not or could not be operating (or referencing) his peak combat superspeeds at that time.
That you can't accept the simple inference that he wasn't because he got the sh1t kicked out of him for three issues, knocked out like, what, three times??? and bleeding like a stuck pig wasn't enough. Somehow, I've got to find affirmative evidence Superman wasn't operating at peak superspeeds, much less peak conditions by the final issue. Then you take me to task for digging for those statements? Seriously? It's nto enough that you want me to prove a negative, now you're offended that I am actually doing so?
You're opinion on this matter is completely insulting. So is your logic and backhanded fallacies and double-standards. Apart from Wolverithmetics, I've never seen the like. So, no, there really is no point in discussing it with you.
Character statements =/= feats. Flying in a straight line, or being flown in a straight line at traveling superspeed =/= combat superspeed. There's no need to microanalyze this -- as much as y'all hope that microanalysis will somehow prove otherwise (hint: it won't). That's fundamentally all there is here: character statements. And that it's being stretched to Flash-level superspeed, Superman-level superspeed, Surfer-level superspeed, or Hulk++++-level superspeed highlights what empirical worth those character statements merit.
I'm bored.
Frankly, I find it outright laughable to argue with such blatantly stated/depicted facts.
Originally posted by Galan007I agree with this. Remarkable for a superbrick. Like just about every other superbrick without an independent superspeed feat to their name.
DD has remarkable combat speed.
Flash-level? Superman-level? Surfer-level? Hulk+++++-level?
Same non-proof character statement is being used for each magnitude of speed listed. Forgive my disbelief that I have to take your word on how accurate you're being when you arbitrarily choose one level of speed when there are no independent superspeed feats to confirm so and all I've been presented with has been replicated often by other superbricks.
Originally posted by BlightI'm not offended by your conclusion. Others would be. Somehow, that's my fault though.
Okay, I have to admit, watching this fight its clear that Doomsday is not on par with Superman's speed. Superman is doing everything he can with his speed to keep doomsday off his feet. However I will not admit this doesn't mean Doomsday doesn't have super speed, just not on par with Supermans. Only enough to make him remark at how fast he is going...
Originally posted by OneDumbG0😂
I agree with this. Remarkable for a superbrick. Like just about every other superbrick without an independent superspeed feat to their name.Flash-level? Superman-level? Surfer-level? Hulk+++++-level?
Same non-proof character statement is being used for each magnitude of speed listed. Forgive my disbelief that I have to take your word on how accurate you're being when you arbitrarily choose one when there are no independent superspeed feats and all I've seen have been replicated often by other superbricks.
Multiple characters making multiple comments pertaining to DD's remarkable speed as they were getting owned by him, is as blatant as proof can get. The writer OBVIOUSLY intended for DD to have a [fairly high] degree of combat superspeed--to the point where FAST characters stated he was FAST.
You can opt to ignore those NUMEROUS comments/actions, and write them all off as jobbing (or whatever the hell you're trying to do), but that strikes me as utterly illogical, and bordering on obtuse. Either way, I see no reason to continue this discussion, it has gone nowhere.
Originally posted by Galan007Nuff said.
Multiple characters making multiple comments
It's obvious that general exclamations about speed are all but unquantifiable. Even all of Superman's statements about Darkseid, Lobo and General speeds didn't save them from being conclusively slower than Superman. A lot slower. SO much slower in fact, that the speed comment could really only reasonably have meant that each character was speed(ier) than they looked or initially seemed for their size/power. A common comic book trope. And a conclusion that makes complete sense in context and certainly cannot be ruled out when looking at the statements in isolation.
That this notion offends Doomsday fans is completely arbitrary. And it certainly doesn't justify reverse-projecting a positively certain quotient of Superman's speed onto Doomsday, much less Flash's.
Originally posted by CogitoI completely disagree he expunged the bacteria. That's what's stated and opinions vary but me taking the meaning literally isn't that of a pre schooler. Nvermind.
This explains a lot.Your reading comprehension must be at the level of a preschooler if you think that scan meant anything other than Imperiex considering Doomsday and Superman to be bacteria.
It's exactly the same [b]analogy
as the Monitors considering the multiverse a germ.Wow. Epic reading fail.
facepalm2 [/B]
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ That wasn't what I was referring to. But, whatever. Nuff said.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Too exhausted to avoid falling debris in response to Guardian's concern.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If wikipedia serves me correctly, the Project Cadmus scene where Superman admits to Guardian he was too tired to escape the falling debris was in Action Comics #684.
I thought that's what you wanted..
The first one was just the first bit of evidence.
[EDIT] In hindsight, you edited it 😛
[EDIT AGAIN] It looks as though lois and jimmy didn't touch down, Superman landed them. But I'm going to keep reading if it's later.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ What makes that any different from any superbrick doing the same to <insert cocky overconfident hero>? Freaking Hal Jordan didn't even see Batman take his ring off him until Batman pointed it out! Just... UGH. ... I, what? Just, no. If wikipedia serves me correctly, the Project Cadmus scene where Superman admits to Guardian he was too tired to escape the falling debris was in Action Comics #684. The burning building scene is in Superman: Man of Steel #19, and Superman setting Lois and Jimmy down right next to Doomsday (again, lol) was in Superman #75.
Batman snuck the ring off Hal's finger. Doomsday wasn't sneaking when he slammed Guy. And if wikipedia serves you correctly, superspeed is listed as one of Doomsday's powers.
And yes, tense has everything to do with what's going on. Notice in the same panel, the guy standing next to him says "What was that?!" He said it in past tense because on the panel prior there was an extremely loud noise. The noise wasn't continual so he asked what it WAS. When the other guy made the observation of of what he saw, he used present tense. He was watching it, it wasn't just a flyby that he caught a momentary glimpse of.
Again I ask... Why would the writer dumb Superman down and nerf him to meet Doomsday instead of create DD with the powerset to kill a Superman who repeatedly gave it all he had? Why make just another brick? Doomsday wasn't created for a monthly issue, he was made for the sole purpose of killing Superman.
And why all the references to his speed? Why aren't they referencing his speed in proportion to his size? Why the comparison to Flash? Do you really think a writer would compare a character without superspeed to the Flash? No. He was trying to get his point across, and he did. For most of us anyways...
Originally posted by quanchi112
I completely disagree he expunged the bacteria. That's what's stated and opinions vary but me taking the meaning literally isn't that of a pre schooler. Nvermind.
ermmsad
Yes, it does mean you have the reading comprehension of a preschooler. Anagolgies...metaphors...similes..this stuff is literature 101.
BTW, Imperiex destroyed DD with Entropy.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I completely disagree he expunged the bacteria. That's what's stated and opinions vary but me taking the meaning literally isn't that of a pre schooler. Nvermind.
Wow, you're just wrong. It was an analogy in the same way that earthlings have been compared to Galactus. Imperiex said it because of how insignificant he saw Doomsday.