CISless Surfer vs HP Doomsday

Started by carver935 pages

Originally posted by Delta1938
You've got one, maybe two examples, assuming you're not misinterpreting the scans(much like you did with Flash lending Superman speed to be faster than thought, Jonathon making-up the 50 supernovas thing, and a couple other examples I've recently seen) and a claim of Batman on "numerous occasions" dodging a speed-blitzing Superman. Where are these examples? The closest I can think of would be when Batman moved out of the way of a charging, but not blitzing, Superman who was mind-controlled by Dessad, and even Batman admitted the mind control slowing Superman down was why he was still alive.

As for Deathstroke blitzing Lex "better than Supes has done in any of their encounters," how many times has Superman actually outright fought Luthor? But you're saying Deathstroke outright blitzed Lex better than Superman has done in ANY of their encounters? REALLY?

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Durability/Claw%20Or%20Horus/?action=view&current=SupermanBatman05-21.jpg

Unless you want to nitpick that Superman's not going at Luthor directly with his speed. 🙄

Delta, cant you tell when someone is ignoring you? I didn't read all of your post but I did see one thing. Just want to let you know that Lex commented on Deathstroke speed during their scuffle.

Also...Lex is usually armored when he is fighting Supes and Lex is usually on a destructive path. Why wouldn't Superman use his speed? The moral of the story is...street level characters usually performs better against threats than most...especially street levelers like Wolverine, Deathstroke, Batman, and the list goes on.

Now let me do what I should have done a long time ago and out you on ignore.

Holla.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Oh I'm not saying that at all...

I am saying that with creative use of his great matter/energy manip (combined with flight and the ability to move FTL), he could beat HP Doomsday without even having to directly attack him...

He could start transmuting objects in Doomsdays immediate vicinity into singularities and beat him that way...

Or he could trigger a fusion reaction between Doomsday and the foreign substances both on his person and inside of his body and utterly destroy him that way...

With creative use of his powers and the abscence of CIS, Surfer would be practically unbeatable by anyone less than a Skyfather or a Trans Tier with a similar powerset...

Entropy bubble ftw.

Originally posted by carver9
Almost forgot...Nightwing was running circles around a Batman that had Superman powers, let's also not forget about all of the Deathstroke showing against Flashes. Let's also not forget Nightwing tied Flash up before Flash even got the chance to react.

The list is heavy with streets vs Speedster...if anything, street level characters sometimes looks better against opponents that speedster struggle to take down. Didnt Deathstroke defeat Kalibak in one panel?


😂
Context is your friend carv.

Originally posted by carver9
I don't think anyone is saying he doesn't have speed.
Originally posted by Blight
Now show something that would compare him to Hulk level Speed... that's what you're claiming, right? Show someone who's fast that is ready for an attack from Hulk that gets blitzed. Or at least something comparable.
Originally posted by Delta1938
So how fast do you actually think Doomsday is? Roughly, of course.
Originally posted by Blight
That I can't be sure on. Somewhere above Hulk and Below Superman. That's all I can be sure on.

Originally posted by carver9
Already did. Slapping missles out of the sky...Quick Silver commenting on Hulks super speed...creating Sonic booms. It's clear cut Hulk has super speed just like its clear Doomsday does as well. We just need to find a medium.
There are varying degrees of super speed carver.

Hulk creating sonic booms is good and all and even slapping away some missles is cool, but Doomsday contending with the league and what has already been posted in terms of his speed is better and leagues above Hulk.

Hulk can move fast Doomsday can move much much faster.

Originally posted by Blight
Now show something that would compare him to Hulk level Speed... that's what you're claiming, right? Show someone who's fast that is ready for an attack from Hulk that gets blitzed. Or at least something comparable.

That I can't be sure on. Somewhere above Hulk and Below Superman. That's all I can be sure on.

Sentry flying at Hulk at super speed and Hulk...

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/wwh012.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/wwh013.jpg

Both fts are pretty much unquantifiable.

can we start calling carver.. CARTER? Do I need to start a motion to do so?

Originally posted by carver9
SMH...you know this goes against Superman as well right when he face Wolverine level opponents. Shadow Dragon...Superman admitted Shadow Dragon was too fast for him and he couldn't lay a glove on him. Batman on numerous of occasions has outright dodged a blitzing Superman. Superman also commented on Deathstroke speed and failed at catching him.

High end street levelers just get a lot of respect. Hell, Deathsroke outright blitzed Lex better than Supes has done in any of their encounters.

Which of these characters beat the piss out of Superman while mentioning he was too slow?

Superman missed him once and said he was fast, but there's nothing to suggest he was using superspeed to do so, then a moment later just grabbed Deathstroke and hauled him to jail. lol.

Originally posted by carver9
Sentry flying at Hulk at super speed and Hulk...

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/wwh012.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/wwh013.jpg

Both fts are pretty much unquantifiable.

There is nothing speed related about that. That's just the Hulk Bracing for impact with his fist.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Oh I'm not saying that at all...

I am saying that with creative use of his great matter/energy manip (combined with flight and the ability to move FTL), he could beat HP Doomsday without even having to directly attack him...

He could start transmuting objects in Doomsdays immediate vicinity into singularities and beat him that way...

Or he could trigger a fusion reaction between Doomsday and the foreign substances both on his person and inside of his body and utterly destroy him that way...

With creative use of his powers and the abscence of CIS, Surfer would be practically unbeatable by anyone less than a Skyfather or a Trans Tier with a similar powerset...

Not forgetting your powers due to induced stupidity doesn't mean you're going to go way out of character and do whatever the poster thinks. He's still going to fight in character.

Originally posted by Newjak
There are varying degrees of super speed carver.

Hulk creating sonic booms is good and all and even slapping away some missles is cool, but Doomsday contending with the league and what has already been posted in terms of his speed is better and leagues above Hulk.

Hulk can move fast Doomsday can move much much faster.

Lol...admitted on panel Doomsday fought a weaker version of the Justice League.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/juggernaut666666/8-4.jpg

Even if that was an argument, you would have to share that wealth to the MANY of bricks that has ran through the JLA AMD also had their speed commented on during that fight (Shaggyman).

Put the current JLA against HP Doomsday back then and he would die.

Originally posted by Juntai
Not forgetting your powers due to induced stupidity doesn't mean you're going to go way out of character and do whatever the poster thinks. He's still going to fight in character.

The thread starter indicated no CIS...

What do you think no CIS means?

Originally posted by carver9
Sentry flying at Hulk at super speed and Hulk...

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/wwh012.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/wwh013.jpg

Both fts are pretty much unquantifiable.

Originally posted by Badabing
Here are 6 speed feats for DD from DOS. Maxima, Guy Gardner, Booster Gold and Superman all comment on DD's speed.






Originally posted by carver9
Lol...admitted on panel Doomsday fought a weaker version of the Justice League.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/juggernaut666666/8-4.jpg

Even if that was an argument, you would have to share that wealth to the MANY of bricks that has ran through the JLA AMD also had their speed commented on during that fight (Shaggyman).

Put the current JLA against HP Doomsday back then and he would die.

By Weaker she means it was Guy Gardner, Booster Gold, Blue Beetle, Etc. Not that the league was somehow less powerful than they usually are.

STILL WAITING.

Originally posted by Juntai
These people suggesting he is just an equal to Hulk have only continued to carry on this many pages because of an adnauseum logical fallacy. Trying to measure a cherry-picked scan or two against the entire body of work and all the arguments being cemented repeatedly against them from the beginning in a clear case of intentional obfuscation. Using clearly wild comparisons, ignoring all the evidence that can't be twisted to support their preconceived notion of what they feel it -should- be, rather than what evidence suggests it is.

The fact of the matter is, in DOS, in only a handful of issues, his speed was stated over and over, a dozen or more times. Writers intent is VERY clear. Again, in Hunter/Prey, in only a couple prestige issues his speed was again mentioned over and over, and shown that he could crawl from the ground, run a length of field, and blitz Darkseid before he could even completely turn his head around. A man who up to that point in time had zero problems dealing with Superman's speed. Again in the follow-up story where Brainiac actually steals him from the end of H/P[same body, power, etc, just with Brainiac's mind], his speed is again a factor, and finally see that even Flash is unable to escape him when he first appears and is KOed. Later again when the league confronts him, Flash again is leaving massive trails rolling in at Superspeed behind him[only a few feet back], and is unable to get there in between which Brainy/Doomsday grabs Wonder Woman, ties her up with her own lasso, then spins her around and collapses Flash as he approaches using her as a weapon. Even during the story of battling the Khunds, a couple guys see him from a distance rampaging and the very next panel is his fist smashing one of the guys faces in.

Just because someone can come up with a few times in 60 years of history of someone claiming Hulk is quick and surprised them, doesn't remove all the times he was made to look foolish by faster characters, including all the way down to characters Spiderman, Captain America, and Wolverine.

Doomsday up until the laughable semi-intelligent fire-breathing abomination of a Doomsday never had trouble with anyone's speed, and never did after that either.

And even still, none of this removes what is clearly writers intent, despite not leaving afterimages or blurring in panels, or a lack of feats concerning a character who has only a few appearances in history.....in the space of a literal handful of comics we're reminded of him being faster, stronger and more savage than everyone else- repeatedly.

While you can try to reason away this scan, or that, or say this or that is only character claims, you can't begin to disclaim the entire body of work, dozens of mentionings by characters, narration and likewise visual representation in combat in only a very few issues.

I dare anyone to find a miniseries for the Hulk where he was not only visually overrunning nearly everyone before they react, but the characters[many of them with superspeed at that] and narration are both suggesting he's too fast to counter repeatedly until the end of the arc.

If you can't, you must concede.

Simply as that.

Put up the goods or forget it.

Originally posted by Blight
There is nothing speed related about that. That's just the Hulk Bracing for impact with his fist.

Lol...bracing? Where do you see a brace?

Originally posted by Blight
By Weaker she means it was Guy Gardner, Booster Gold, Blue Beetle, Etc. Not that the league was somehow less powerful than they usually are.

Where did you get that from in the scan I posted?

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...bracing? Where do you see a brace?
All he did was stick his fist out to a charging Sentry. No where does that indicate speed. He see's someone is coming, he wants to attack, he throws a punch. How does that match someone knowing Doomsday is coming, comments that they know he's going to be fast, and being caught off guard by the attack regardless of their preparedness?

Originally posted by carver9
Where did you get that from in the scan I posted?
Are you serious? You really think she means that the Justice League was depowered for absolutely no reason? She meant that it was a Less Powerful version in that the League didn't have Superman, it didn't have Wonder Woman, it didn't have the Classic Green Lantern, Etc.

Are you kidding?

Originally posted by carver9
Almost forgot...Nightwing was running circles around a Batman that had Superman powers, let's also not forget about all of the Deathstroke showing against Flashes. Let's also not forget Nightwing tied Flash up before Flash even got the chance to react.

The list is heavy with streets vs Speedster...if anything, street level characters sometimes looks better against opponents that speedster struggle to take down. Didnt Deathstroke defeat Kalibak in one panel?


facepalm

Leave Carver alone, he's still trying to argue in circles to distract from the point; Doomsday is much faster than Hulk. He has yet to make a single valid point.