Originally posted by carver9
So if I post Doomsday getting Blitzed, would this end this discussion?
lol, cos one feat will contradict all the others.
Don't be silly.
Originally posted by Blight
Hahaha I doubt it.Superman does blitz him at Cadmus during the very same DOS arc 😛
Superman blitzes/knocks out/beats down everyone eventually.
Originally posted by BlightRamming Doomsday and carrying him doesn't equal blitzing him. Superman himself was also one of the ones suggesting Doomsday was too fast, among all of the other examples in the series'.
Also because superman is faster 😛Doesn't make Doomsday Hulk fast. But superman is the faster character, I don't think anyone is disputing that.
But no, the argument isn't if he's actually as fast as Flash or Superman, the people arguing against his speed are suggesting he's just a lumbering brute like Hulk and just happens to surprise people, every time, every issue, every appearance, even if they met him before. >.>
Originally posted by Newjak
Don't you mean lack of 😛
Originally posted by Blight
Hulk does not have a history of being a "slow brute". He has always had a history of being very fast for his size. Just FYI.
Originally posted by JuntaiKeeping him off his toes is sort of a half blitz. Clearly he's faster in the scene, but it's all he can do.
Ramming Doomsday and carrying him doesn't equal blitzing him. Superman himself was also one of the ones suggesting Doomsday was too fast, among all of the other examples in the series'.But no, the argument isn't if he's actually as fast as Flash or Superman, the people arguing against his speed are suggesting he's just a lumbering brute like Hulk and just happens to surprise people, every time, every issue, every appearance, even if they met him before. >.>
But I agree with you, its not MUCH of a showing.
Originally posted by carver9Doomsday getting blitzed isn't what you need, unless perhaps he's KOed at the end of it.
So if I post Doomsday getting Blitzed, would this end this discussion?
What you need is described here from the last page;
Originally posted by Juntai
These people suggesting he is just an equal to Hulk have only continued to carry on this many pages because of an adnauseum logical fallacy. Trying to measure a cherry-picked scan or two against the entire body of work and all the arguments being cemented repeatedly against them from the beginning in a clear case of intentional obfuscation. Using clearly wild comparisons, ignoring all the evidence that can't be twisted to support their preconceived notion of what they feel it -should- be, rather than what evidence suggests it is.The fact of the matter is, in DOS, in only a handful of issues, his speed was stated over and over, a dozen or more times. Writers intent is VERY clear. Again, in Hunter/Prey, in only a couple prestige issues his speed was again mentioned over and over, and shown that he could crawl from the ground, run a length of field, and blitz Darkseid before he could even completely turn his head around. A man who up to that point in time had zero problems dealing with Superman's speed. Again in the follow-up story where Brainiac actually steals him from the end of H/P[same body, power, etc, just with Brainiac's mind], his speed is again a factor, and finally see that even Flash is unable to escape him when he first appears and is KOed. Later again when the league confronts him, Flash again is leaving massive trails rolling in at Superspeed behind him[only a few feet back], and is unable to get there in between which Brainy/Doomsday grabs Wonder Woman, ties her up with her own lasso, then spins her around and collapses Flash as he approaches using her as a weapon. Even during the story of battling the Khunds, a couple guys see him from a distance rampaging and the very next panel is his fist smashing one of the guys faces in.
Just because someone can come up with a few times in 60 years of history of someone claiming Hulk is quick and surprised them, doesn't remove all the times he was made to look foolish by faster characters, including all the way down to characters Spiderman, Captain America, and Wolverine.
Doomsday up until the laughable semi-intelligent fire-breathing abomination of a Doomsday never had trouble with anyone's speed, and never did after that either.
And even still, none of this removes what is clearly writers intent, despite not leaving afterimages or blurring in panels, or a lack of feats concerning a character who has only a few appearances in history.....in the space of a literal handful of comics we're reminded of him being faster, stronger and more savage than everyone else- repeatedly.
While you can try to reason away this scan, or that, or say this or that is only character claims, you can't begin to disclaim the entire body of work, dozens of mentionings by characters, narration and likewise visual representation in combat in only a very few issues.
I dare anyone to find a miniseries for the Hulk where he was not only visually overrunning nearly everyone before they react, but the characters[many of them with superspeed at that] and narration are both suggesting he's too fast to counter repeatedly until the end of the arc.
If you can't, you must concede.
Simply as that.
Put up the goods or forget it.
Originally posted by Odekahn
Show me the scan of what you're referencing.Why? Because you say it's so? You can call it unconvincing all you want, but just saying that's the way it is without any reason why is REALLY unconvincing.
Because those other superbricks already existed and in order to pose a threat, Superman couldn't go all out on them. Doomsday was created with the purpose of killing Superman. Superman didn't have to be dumbed down because Doomsday was created with the power to match and kill him.
Yes, they are different and it's been explained numerous times how they are different. Doomsday's speed is referenced in and of itself, not due to his speed/size ratio. And the comments continued over and over again. It wasn't a one off comment, it was a continual piece of the story.
So what? Quicksilver doesn't begin to compare to Flash, and in that particular arc, was Cap's speed spoken of again and again? You're splitting hairs so badly that you aren't even seeing the big picture. You can't see the forest for the trees.
You're right, like Doctor Doom states that he is smarter than Reed, but that is completely different than writer direction. It's completely different than a hero continually struggling with a strength of a brand new villain, much less many different heroes.
No, they don't prove a quantity, but they prove that an attribute at least exists! I don't know to what degree Doomsday has superspeed, but it's clear as day that he has it.
It wasn't that they thought he would be slower, it was that they were being overwhelmed. If it was just that he was faster than they thought he would be, you'd think that after a while they would smarten up and get the idea of how fast he was. Guy may be a human, but he's not a real person. His words are written by a writer, and the intent was to establish the new character Doomsday. You seem like a smart enough guy, I really don't understand how you can be so stupid.
It's been proven over and over again. There's a reason that most everyone agrees that he has superspeed.
Abilities: Superhuman Strength
[B]Superhuman Speed
Superhuman Endurance
Superhuman Agility
Healing Factor
Invulnerability
Reactive Adaptation
Evolutionary Camoflaugehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_(comics)
Super-Speed
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Doomsday_(New_Earth)
Super strength
Super speed
Super durability
Evolution
Immortalhttp://www.comicvine.com/doomsday/29-9989/doomsday-abilities/92-137975/
His reflexes and speed are vastly beyond what's expected for his bulky size, and has been able to match Superman in this regard.
http://www.superherodb.com/Doomsday/10-679/#tab3
Doomsday has Invulnerability probably greater than that of a normal Kryptonian; as well as Super Strength, Super Speed, and incredible leaping ability.
Super speed - Despite his large size, Doomsday can move, react and respond at superhuman speeds that cannot be followed, percieved or detected by the human eye.
http://superman.wikia.com/wiki/Doomsday
But I'm tired of running in circles with you so this will be my last post on the topic. It's so obvious that it's mind numbing how you refuse to accept it. But I suppose you can only lead a horse to water... [/B]
To bad his real bio made by DC themselves mentions nothing about speed.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/doomsdaybio1.jpg
Originally posted by Juntai
Doomsday getting blitzed isn't what you need, unless perhaps he's KOed at the end of it.What you need is described here from the last page;
These people suggesting he is just an equal to Hulk have only continued to carry on this many pages because of an adnauseum logical fallacy. Trying to measure a cherry-picked scan or two against the entire body of work and all the arguments being cemented repeatedly against them from the beginning in a clear case of intentional obfuscation. Using clearly wild comparisons, ignoring all the evidence that can't be twisted to support their preconceived notion of what they feel it -should- be, rather than what evidence suggests it is.
The fact of the matter is, in DOS, in only a handful of issues, his speed was stated over and over, a dozen or more times. Writers intent is VERY clear. Again, in Hunter/Prey, in only a couple prestige issues his speed was again mentioned over and over, and shown that he could crawl from the ground, run a length of field, and blitz Darkseid before he could even completely turn his head around. A man who up to that point in time had zero problems dealing with Superman's speed. Again in the follow-up story where Brainiac actually steals him from the end of H/P[same body, power, etc, just with Brainiac's mind], his speed is again a factor, and finally see that even Flash is unable to escape him when he first appears and is KOed. Later again when the league confronts him, Flash again is leaving massive trails rolling in at Superspeed behind him[only a few feet back], and is unable to get there in between which Brainy/Doomsday grabs Wonder Woman, ties her up with her own lasso, then spins her around and collapses Flash as he approaches using her as a weapon. Even during the story of battling the Khunds, a couple guys see him from a distance rampaging and the very next panel is his fist smashing one of the guys faces in.
Just because someone can come up with a few times in 60 years of history of someone claiming Hulk is quick and surprised them, doesn't remove all the times he was made to look foolish by faster characters, including all the way down to characters Spiderman, Captain America, and Wolverine.
Doomsday up until the laughable semi-intelligent fire-breathing abomination of a Doomsday never had trouble with anyone's speed, and never did after that either.
And even still, none of this removes what is clearly writers intent, despite not leaving afterimages or blurring in panels, or a lack of feats concerning a character who has only a few appearances in history.....in the space of a literal handful of comics we're reminded of him being faster, stronger and more savage than everyone else- repeatedly.
While you can try to reason away this scan, or that, or say this or that is only character claims, you can't begin to disclaim the entire body of work, dozens of mentionings by characters, narration and likewise visual representation in combat in only a very few issues.
I dare anyone to find a miniseries for the Hulk where he was not only visually overrunning nearly everyone before they react, but the characters[many of them with superspeed at that] and narration are both suggesting he's too fast to counter repeatedly until the end of the arc.
If you can't, you must concede.
Simply as that.
Put up the goods or forget it.
Does this work?
😛
Originally posted by carver9
To bad his real bio made by DC themselves mentions nothing about speed.http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/doomsdaybio1.jpg
That's not much of a bio at all, so.... Weak, carver. I expect better from you. I don't know why, but I do.
Originally posted by Placidity
So if you had it your way - the "non-hypocritical" way, Hulk would have Superman's level of speed? Is that right? See, when you make comments like that, you better be ready to say "yes" here otherwise you look silly.Just answer that for now, then we can compare the quality of evidences for each case. I'll give you a hint - not even close (read the thread).
Y'all need to seriously calm down.
First stop assuming what my way is. Im just pointing something out which seems hypocritical to me.
Show me speed feats of DOS Doomsday that put him well above Hulk(except for fighting speedsters which Hulk has also done) and then I may have to take my statement back.
And for the record, in Hulk vs Supes threads I always say Supes speed blitz Hulk.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Y'all need to seriously calm down.First stop assuming what my way is. Im just pointing something out which seems hypocritical to me.
Show me speed feats of DOS Doomsday that put him well above Hulk(except for fighting speedsters which Hulk has also done) and then I may have to take my statement back.
And for the record, in Hulk vs Supes threads I always say Supes speed blitz Hulk.
Originally posted by -Pr-
That's not much of a bio at all, so.... Weak, carver. I expect better from you. I don't know why, but I do.
I'm not on either side but I disagreed totally with his post. I'm not backing either because honestly, I am unsure on Doomsdays speed. I think this discussion is very helpful imo. I think it would settle the myth that has been going on for 15+ years about Doomsdays power. I was just showing him that bios are not a useful source.
Originally posted by Blighthttp://s82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/Badabing_2006/DC/?action=view¤t=DOSDDspeed3.jpg
Keeping him off his toes is sort of a half blitz. Clearly he's faster in the scene, but it's all he can do.
Has more to do with the fact that Doomsday can't fly.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Why wouldn't you show hulk's so called "speed" feats first, so that we can measure his speed against doomsday?
He has none except fighting speedsters as far as I know.
Does Doomsday clearly have more?
Please enlighten me.
I was actually going from arguments in the first 6-8 pages where people who always say "Hulk gets beat by any speedster because he does not have speed feats" were suddenly using the logic that Doomsday doesn't get blitzed because he's fought speedsters before 🙄
