Originally posted by Nephthys
If I'm understanding you correctly you've estimated the amount of years training thats required to become a Knight and then berated a fellow member for not reading your mind and knowing about your estimation.Wow indeed.
Well, Sweetheart, I honestly thought this was basic knowledge. Really. 😬
Originally posted by Nephthys
Its not basic knowledge if you make it up.Obviously we all know that Jedi are brought in young and all, but I've never heard anything about a requirement of 10 years before Knighthood.
Anakin's case was considered rare, in that he was the oldest human brought to the Council since the old era to receive training.
They didn't even want to accept him, but in the end, he was old enough to formally enter into an Apprenticeship. (Padawan--Knight)
His case bears the official Canonical minimum requirement for a Human in the Order.
I seriously thought everyone here knew this.
So, nothing is made up. It's obvious information, I just thought everyone here knew enough of the material for me to not have to tell them.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
Anakin's case was considered rare, in that he was the oldest human brought to the Council since the old era to receive training.
Nope. Rahm Kota was actually older. IIRC he was 18.
His case bears the official Canonical minimum requirement for a Human in the Order.
Nah. There are Jedi who were trained for far less like Jaden Korr and Nomi Sunrider.
Regardless, nothing has ever stated that you need to be trained ten years to be "fully trained". That's just some BS you made up and were called out on.
Originally posted by ares834
Nope. Rahm Kota was actually older. IIRC he was 18.Nah. There are Jedi who were trained for far less like Jaden Korr.
Regardless, nothing has ever stated that you need to be trained ten years to be "fully trained". That's just some BS you made up and were called out on.
QFT
Good to see members still taking care of business.
Also, did a member with fewer than 300 posts call someone else a newbie?
SRSLY?
Originally posted by BattlemasterAnakin's case was considered rare, in that he was the oldest human brought to the Council since the old era to receive training.
They didn't even want to accept him, but in the end, he was old enough to formally enter into an Apprenticeship. (Padawan--Knight)
His case bears the official Canonical minimum requirement for a Human in the Order.
I seriously thought everyone here knew this.
So, nothing is made up. It's obvious information, I just thought everyone here knew enough of the material for me to not have to tell them.
Look dude, I've been polite to you, but if you keep being condescending in this manner I'm going to have to ask you to shut the **** up. Learn when to quit.
We know proper training consists of 6 months to the age of 13 according to Canon. Typically around that time a Jedi-in-training goes to one of the Corps or is handed over to a Master or Knight for training until early adulthood.The rough estimate would be ten years, give or take. (For the accepted minimum)
Anakin's circumstance was considered rare in the Order, and though he didn't partake in Initiate training, he still was conventionally and officially required to train from Padawan to Knight.
Anakin was around 10 when he began his Padawan training and then trained until not long after the Battle of Praesitlyn, where he was Knighted at the age of 22.
As for DARTH POWER saying about Emperor being imbued by darkside nexus of Byss planet, it looks more like he simply makes fun out of you by giving very same speculations like you saying that Lea was Force empowering Luke.
Yes, there was support from her but not something increasing physical capabilities. It is power of emotion, Lea hoped that Luke would win and Luke felt it due to natural bond. It is responsibility to protect his sister and everything he stood for driving him to limits of his potential.
Another fact is that Sith are always more practiced, more knowledgeable about offensive powers and skills and have greater power in general. Yet, lightside can give Jedi much better self-control during fight.
Jedi are guided by the Force, while Sith abuse it. It has a meaning.
Luke gave in fully to the lightside, his moves were guided by the Force. The Force itself was on his side, he became its tool.
Originally posted by BattlemasterAnakin's case was considered rare, in that he was the oldest human brought to the Council since the old era to receive training.
They didn't even want to accept him, but in the end, he was old enough to formally enter into an Apprenticeship. (Padawan--Knight)
His case bears the official Canonical minimum requirement for a Human in the Order.
I seriously thought everyone here knew this.
So, nothing is made up. It's obvious information, I just thought everyone here knew enough of the material for me to not have to tell them.
Battlemaster, I would encourage you to take a step back from the sort of "don't know the canon" posturing that you've adopted. I can promise that we've all seen the movies / read the books; we don't need to rehash the timeline at a glance. Given that it is best to assume better than minimal proficiency with the material, I think you should look at the kinds of statements being made.
OPB Battlemaster Fully trained is at least spending the ten or so years with an assigned Knight or Master and then passing the Trials.
OPB DP Where did you get this from? Iv never heard of there being a specific time period. Surely Everyone learns at different rates don't they?
OPB Battlemaster [b]Yes - there is a specific time period for tutelage under a Master.Potential Jedi are taken at six months to be trained, they then spend their childhood as Initiates and as pre-teens are handed over to a Knight or Master to be trained until their young adulthood, when they become full-fledged Jedi.
That, or at least having the full Apprenticeship (10+years under a Knight/Master) is fully-trained in the Jedi way.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
[b]
What I asked you is if you have a source that says you Have to train for 10 years to become a Knight.
OPB Battlemaster
It wouldn't be ten solid years, but typically something around that. That's what I was implying.
There is an interplay between the idea of a sufficient condition (10 years will make you a Jedi, under the Old System) and a necessary condition (you can't be a Jedi until you log 10 years of training). Running basic numbers on Anakin is enough to indicate that for him, specifically, 10 years was sufficient time to become a Jedi (i.e. (∃x)(x becomes a Jedi in 10 years)). You cannot generalize, however, and say that for ALL x, it takes 10 years.
This is where the argument lies. One claim is much weaker than the other. To say that "for all (x), if x does not have more than 10 years of training then x is not a Jedi" is bold and will require substantial evidenciary support. That is what we are asking for when we ask for quotes.
You have not submitted any quote from canon indicating that there is a specific age at which the Padawan stage must come to an end. The ten year window is certainly more fluid than that, and I would say that a student as unconventional as Luke in ESB/RotJ would require something much, MUCH lower.
Spoiler:
There are a lot of peripheral skills explored in the Kenobi/Jinn novels that Yoda didn't have to waste time with. Luke is a coordinated individual, and very powerful in the Force. These are things that have been shown to dramatically reduce learning times.
Let me ask you this: Why the HELL did Yoda bother to tell Luke about Mortis, and yet not take the time to teach him how to block lightning?
How random and forced was it that Luke knew about Mortis? Why would you say THAT to Luke, Yoda?
And RN, stop being so nice! you make us look like pansies. It's been a few years since we destroyed all new people who tried to make assumptions. we are getting out of form.
Originally posted by truejedi
Let me ask you this: Why the HELL did Yoda bother to tell Luke about Mortis, and yet not take the time to teach him how to block lightning?
How random and forced was it that Luke knew about Mortis? Why would you say THAT to Luke, Yoda?
And RN, stop being so nice! you make us look like pansies. It's been a few years since we destroyed all new people who tried to make assumptions. we are getting out of form.
BM also talks earnestly about Star Wars, in the SWVS forum. We haven't accomplished that in months.
Originally posted by ZampanóWait, this was told to him on Dagobah? WHY?? Couldn't Luke just flow-walk to see him? Or maybe go through that out-of-body thing he did where he drank at the same fountain as Caedus (or something... I'm not current at all)
[/B]
Originally posted by Battlemaster
No. You're clearly, an Idiot... If you're too mentally dim to see this, or you don't want to accept it. Let me know, because I have better things to do with my time, than waste it arguing with a stubborn Newbie.
Is there any need for this? Have I insulted you anywhere despite you not citing one canon source this whole debate, and yet expecting me to accept your "basic canon knowledge"
Originally posted by Battlemaster
And Obi-wan and his fury against Maul, and Luke and his temper-tantrum with his loving Father, are apples and oranges.
The principle is the same..
But Lol @ loving father. Yeah Ive never really encountered a father more loving than Darth Vader.
Originally posted by Battlemaster
And the CW series doesn't contain "Revelations" - it's a children's show.
🙄
Well so much for asking you to provide any canon evidence. The show is T-Canon (just below the movies) whether you like it or not.
And some people would argue the whole of Star Wars is for kids.
Originally posted by RookwoodLawl. Internet fail.
There is no such event as the Battle of PraesitlynSource?
Originally posted by ares834
Nope. Rahm Kota was actually older. IIRC he was 18.
I double checked and people who have discussed Kota have admitted his backstory does seem a bit spotty in terms of his induction into the Order.
But If he was at the very least 50, during the events of the game, and took a Padawan just bfore the Clone Wars, he still would have been in his late 20's, early 30's during that time. Indicating his requirement for a full conventional Padawan-Knight Apprenticeship.
Even in their blunder, some logical sense can be made of that character, after all.
Originally posted by ares834
Nah. There are Jedi who were trained for far less like Jaden Korr and Nomi Sunrider.
Before and after the Post-Ruusan Reformation, which are not the periods I'm talking about.
Originally posted by ares834
Regardless, nothing has ever stated that you need to be trained ten years to be "fully trained".
If you read carefully enough, it becomes clear. I was involved in making some Star Wars RPG's a few years back on The Force.Net and had to understand exactly how many years were required for Initiate and Padawan training, so I studied the then known Human examples during the Post-Ruusan Reformation and before the New Order.
The figure deduced for either learning period was roughly ten years.
It's all easily understood, once you've researched it. Give it a try.
Originally posted by ares834
That's just some BS you made up and were called out on.
Well, don't burn me for being a Witch just yet - go research it, and you will see that I'm right.
I remember this same thing happened back when the Lightsaber Forms were first mentioned and I told everyone that Form: I is learned by every Jedi and responsible for blaster-deflection/trained with remotes, etc.
They all wanted to burn me at the stake - and then two years later when what I had said became blatantly Canonized, they were stunned.
The funny part is, all these tidbits of knowledge are easily researchable.
Originally posted by Zampanó
One thing that's always fascinated me about language is the way that two people can stare at each other in dismay, each baffled at the other's inability to grasp a concept.
Battlemaster, I would encourage you to take a step back from the sort of "don't know the canon" posturing that you've adopted. I can promise that we've all seen the movies / read the books; we don't need to rehash the timeline at a glance. Given that it is best to assume better than minimal proficiency with the material, I think you should look at the kinds of statements being made.
[/b]
There is an interplay between the idea of a sufficient condition (10 years will make you a Jedi, under the Old System) and a necessary condition (you can't be a Jedi until you log 10 years of training). Running basic numbers on Anakin is enough to indicate that for him, specifically, 10 years was sufficient time to become a Jedi (i.e. (∃x)(x becomes a Jedi in 10 years)). You cannot generalize, however, and say that for ALL x, it takes 10 years.
This is where the argument lies. One claim is much weaker than the other. To say that "for all (x), if x does not have more than 10 years of training then x is not a Jedi" is bold and will require substantial evidenciary support. That is what we are asking for when we ask for quotes.
You have not submitted any quote from canon indicating that there is a specific age at which the Padawan stage must come to an end. The ten year window is certainly more fluid than that, and I would say that a student as unconventional as Luke in ESB/RotJ would require something much, MUCH lower.Spoiler:[/B]
There are a lot of peripheral skills explored in the Kenobi/Jinn novels that Yoda didn't have to waste time with. Luke is a coordinated individual, and very powerful in the Force. These are things that have been shown to dramatically reduce learning times.
Actually Zampanó, I'd be agreeing with you, but the problem with the idea that training times can be hypothetically random and mixed around, is that the Jedi Order had a specific way of doing things, much like any official institution or school.
As we've seen, they do make exceptions for members of other species, for reasons of culture or biology.
Before the Ruusan Reformation and during Luke's Order, established requirements for learning were more lax and just different.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien👆
Lawl. Internet fail.
And I actually agree with the above sentiment - things like the locations of battles and dates, and basics of the Jedi Order are already easily understood by experts in Jedi/Sith Lore, and are easily to google.
Therefore if anyone has any trouble understanding my (apparent) revelation - I invite you to backcheck and see that I'm right.
Like I noted before - I worked on a few major RPG's at The Force.Net's RPG's section and we had to figure out the specific training requirements for Jedi during the (Post-Ruusan) Old Jedi Order.
That's what we came to find.
But considering alot of the novels outline these facts, I sort of figured everyone would know this stuff off the top of their heads, hence by surprise at Darth Power.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Is there any need for this? Have I insulted you anywhere despite you not citing one canon source this whole debate, and yet expecting me to accept your "basic canon knowledge"
I don't have any reason to be cross with you now - apparently the others are in the dark, too. 😬
You can't blame others for not knowing, I guess.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The principle is the same..But Lol @ loving father. Yeah Ive never really encountered a father more loving than Darth Vader.
Vader held back alot on his boy and saved him. If that isn't love, I don't know what is.