Originally posted by Prep-Man
For all we know PM is the SAME. Or below the Presence. Unless you have proof.
Why would he look upon the Presence's creation as a microbe (if he was below the Presence)? Why was he ignorant of the 52 Universes until he discovered them if he was the Presence (wouldn't the Presence be aware of it's own creation if PM and the Presence were the same being)?
Originally posted by zopzop
Why would he look upon the Presence's creation as a microbe (if he was below the Presence)? Why was he ignorant of the 52 Universes until he discovered them if he was the Presence (wouldn't the Presence be aware of it's own creation if PM and the Presence were the same being)?
I never said they were the same. Just that there is not enough info on PM to say he is above.
Originally posted by zopzop
No because Marvel has an entire OMNIVERSE. The Living Tribunal, who is below TOAA, held entire Megaverses (Megaveres are clusters of MULTIVERSES) in his hands!
Originally posted by abhilegend
And? Merlyn channeled the power of entire omniverse at MJJ IIRC. Sis-neg destroyed entire MU. Alien Entity remade entire MU using reed's knowledge. CK destroyed and hercules restored 99.8% of all creation. I can go on. Does this mean TOAA is weaksauce?
None of those beings even proved a challenge to the Living Tribunal, let alone TOAA.
Sis-neg destroyed 616 MU, what's the problem? THere are other universes, multiverses, megavereses in Marvel's OMNIVERSE.
Ditto Alien Entity.
CK and Hercules were playing around with multiversal power. There are other MULTIVERSES, MEGAVERSES in Marvel's OMNIVERSE. So what's the problem? Proof : Death itself escaped outside the Multiverse in that arc.
So no, nothing you brought up changes the fact that TOAA has no opposites, equals or challengers to it's authority.
I'll have to look up the MJJ/Merlyn incident.
Originally posted by Prep-Man
Based on WHAT?
You just told me, that the Presence and Vertigo's "God" aren't the same being. Those two universes/multiverses/megaverses (mainline DC and Vertigo) are part of the greater DC omniverse no? That right there proves my point.
Marvel's TOAA is the same and supreme in the entire Marvel OMNIVERSE.
Originally posted by zopzop
You just told me, that the Presence and Vertigo's "God" aren't the same being. Those two universes/multiverses/megaverses (mainline DC and Vertigo) are part of the greater DC omniverse no? That right there proves my point.Marvel's TOAA is the same and supreme in the entire Marvel OMNIVERSE.
No it doesn't, because they are not even linked in the same omniverse. Unless you have scans to show it. Vertigo is it's own separate thing.
DC just merged Vertigo in the main DCU, HOWEVER Hellblazer is still it's own thing, not connected to the DCU. Weird, I know.
DCU's God on the other hand is linked throughout it's creation.
Originally posted by Prep-Man
No it doesn't, because they are not even linked in the same omniverse. Unless you have scans to show it. Vertigo is it's own separate thing.DC just merged Vertigo in the main DCU, HOWEVER Hellblazer is still it's own thing, not connected to the DCU. Weird, I know.
DCU's God on the other hand is linked throughout it's creation.
But it's still in the same omniverse that is DC. I'm using this definition of omniverse :
Each company (Marvel and DC) is comprised of ONE omniverse that consists of EVERYTHING that is associated with that company. In DC's case this would include Vertigo and its other comic lines.
Hence if the Presence or Vertigo's "God" isn't supreme among ALL DC's comic lines (like TOAA is in Marvel) then they aren't comparable to TOAA in power and authority.
TOAA at Marvel has no peers, opposites, or challengers and is supreme in all it's comic lines.
Originally posted by Prep-Man
It's different in DC, for the same reason Preacher wouldn't be part of it's Omniverse. Or Fables. Vertigo is it's own thing, with it's own continuity.
Again, this proves my point. Marvel's TOAA is supreme in it's entire omniverse. There are different "Supreme" Beings in DC's omniverse that correspond to their respective comic lines.
Marvel's TOAA has no competition anywhere inside their line of comics.
Originally posted by Prep-Man
No it doesn't. DC's Omniverse is run by it's own God.
Ok and whoever that "God" is isn't the Presence or Vertigo's "God" or the "God" in Preacher.
This topic was about these three Vertigo Angels vs Three Marvel Cosmics. You've already admitted that Vertigo's "God" holds no sway over universes other than in its own comic line. We've seen Vertigo's "God" have an opposite : GEB. We've seen he could have been overthrown by Swamp Thing amped by the Elemental Congress'.
This is why I was less then impressed by claims that Michael is "second only to Vertigo's "God"". So far the Angels got nothing going for them feats or fights wise and they are up against a Marvel cosmic that was crushing pantheons and their skyfathers and devoured 98% of the 616 multiverse. Now add in Abraxas (let's just ignore Zom for now) and Team 1 gets absolutely crushed.
CK ALONE could destroy Team 1.
i'm still going with team 2. i could see if it was christ and the anti-christ on team 1, but it's only lucifer gabe and michael. team 2 comes from a more thoroughly structured continuity that takes religion and all that into account.
and imo if you count mikaboshi at his highest he should be at least like synnar in power and concept because if there is 'nothing' then there is no angels either. i bet mikaboshi could end up consuming them or adding them to his army
zom is probably the weakest link in team 2, i would have put cytorrak in there
Originally posted by zopzop
Ok and whoever that "God" is isn't the Presence or Vertigo's "God" or the "God" in Preacher.This topic was about these three Vertigo Angels vs Three Marvel Cosmics. You've already admitted that Vertigo's "God" holds no sway over universes other than in its own comic line. We've seen Vertigo's "God" have an opposite : GEB. We've seen he could have been overthrown by Swamp Thing amped by the Elemental Congress'.
This is why I was less then impressed by claims that Michael is "second only to Vertigo's "God"". So far the Angels got nothing going for them feats or fights wise and they are up against a Marvel cosmic that was crushing pantheons and their skyfathers and devoured 98% of the 616 multiverse. Now add in Abraxas (let's just ignore Zom for now) and Team 1 gets absolutely crushed.
CK ALONE could destroy Team 1.
