Originally posted by zopzopBut it's true.
There was a scan where know-it-all Reed equated the PF with the Big Bang.
... Cause uhh, he was actually there as a witness.
That's hyperbolic comedy that's finally been put to rest on panel in FF#531-532. (2006)
Phoenix (any version) has never created even a single Universe on panel,
so PF being the "spark that ignites" anything is a falacy that was never proven on panel,
and finally dismissed on panel likewise.
Here's the REAL "Spark" that ignites the creation of the Marvel Universe through the Big Bang:
......................................................................................
The Alien Entity transcends Marvel's Space/Time seemingly folding everything
to it's Pre-Big Bang Void:
......................................................................................
The Alien Entity/Reed created the "Spark" that ignites the Fires/Engines of Creation:
......................................................................................
And indeed, the Alien Entity even manipulated the "Spark" into motion:
"Let there be Light ... let the Universe itself ... become"
......................................................................................
The Big Bang in the flesh (on panel actually depicted)
... not talk, talk, talk, which = to hyperbole.
......................................................................................
Also,
Phoenix (any version) has NEVER destroyed all that is,
not even a single Multiverse,
not even two Universes simultaneously,
so Phoenix consuming "all that is" ... is simply more exaggerated hyperbole.
Phoenix has only destroyed a single Alternate Universe twice,
both occasions took place in What if issues.
Originally posted by zopzopThe Galactus Bio that ties in to this scan :
No where in that bio is it even alluded that the PF is/was or could ever be the "Big Bang.
"The PF saved Galan" ... is the most mis-interpreted fiasco made up by KMC's #1 fanboy.
The PF saved Galan (if you wanna call it that) ...
by giving the life in the previous universe a pep talk before dying.
Literally that's all that happened.
Why did the PF do this, and how the hell does this "save" Galan?
The Dweller in Darkness (the embodiment of fear more or less)
was going to use said "fear" as a weapon against reality.
This "fear" derived from life which knew the end was coming,
so the PF via universal awareness gave life in the universe a sense of calm,
by comforting them before the end with a pep talk about how's it's gonna be alright,
death is natural blah, blah, blah.
This took away the "fear" from those lives in the universe,
thus the previous Universe's consciousness (sentient energy)
decided to save someone from the it's death.
That someone was Galan, which the sentient energy (previous universe)
not only protected during the previous collapse
but also merged with Galan transforming him as the balance of all reality.
** Anyhow,
even this whole explanation is warped because Marvel (on panel)
used a diverged reality of 616 to depict this story. 😐
On top of that,
they f'd up continuity
by making the Mkraan Crystal the culprit that destroyed the previous reality
when the Infinity Being destroyed itself, unless it purposely used the Crystal as a means.
***
The PF died with everything else, and was then Re-Born in the Big Bang,
just like everything else.
Originally posted by Mr Master
^^^ 👆There's also Sis-Neg and Thanos/HOTI ...
other than that, no one's create/re-created Marvel from nothingness ...
and the one that started it all was the Infinity being.
(which was confirmed across two different MultiverseS ... yes ... on panel)
Wish you'd go on comicvine and stick it to those morons about Sise-Neg. Try explaining that he recreated all of Marvel and the common reply you'll get is "Sise-Neg is overrated. He created a single universe and he needed 1,000 years of prep time in order to do so!"
Originally posted by guy222
comic vine is bad 👇
I agree. I like its layout, but it's beyond awful now. It used to be highly entertaining (I find trolling really funny) but now it's just a club where the people who've been on since forever talk down to everyone else. Doesn't help that the mods there are incompetent and play favorites. Anyway I'm banned from CV so this is my permanent comic spot now.
Originally posted by CortSetherWish you'd go on comicvine and stick it to those morons about
Sise-Neg. Try explaining that he recreated all of Marvel and the
common reply you'll get is "Sise-Neg is overrated. He created a single
universe and he needed 1,000 years of prep time in order to do so!"
(Marvel was a Universe with past & future timelines ... that's it)
It's even one of the 4 examples
Marvel gives us of the Marvel Universe being reborn from nothingness.
SiseNeg travelled across Timelines,
and even stated he was taking over the Universe & beyond.
==============================
The writer flat out states when SiseNeg finally achieved Godhood:
"Time - Space, it all melts into power ... power with a name ... SiseNeg"
=====
SiseNeg's original bio also states that he "became Godlike in magical power."
And as we know, he "absorbed all the magical energy in the entire universe"
(from the present of 616
back through the growth of the Marvelverse's time (all timelines)
to the point before the original Big Bang. (first creation of the universe)
SiseNeg was responsible for the "second creation of the Universe"
=====
The writer also stated that SiseNeg contained "all extant power"
(so that's all existing power right there)
=====
So this is why SiseNeg was God at that point:
========================
Like I said:
Sis-Neg was traveling across Timelines in his absorption,
Timelines are separate Universes representing different points in time.
(In 72' Universes were solely labeled "Dimensions" ... we later learned this means Universes)
(pocket dimensions/universes are another story, that's stuff like Meph's realm or Asgard)
*
Here's the specific statement coming from Sise-Neg
that confirms it was more than a single Universe:
"The Universe and beyond"
----------------------------------------
In the end, yea Sise-Neg refers to all Reality as "The Universe"
but so did the Alien Entity arc, THOTI/Thanos arc
and even the Insane Genis/Entropy arc, called "The Universe" yet ...
was literally stated in the arc, to involve the prime Multiverse,
and ALL of Creation)
Furthermore, according to Marvel:
There's only been one beginning,
and then there were 4 others that re-created that same beginning.
1. The original Universe (Infinity Being) collapses into a Void (Cosmic Egg)
it allows one life to survive (Galan) it merges with Galan in order to create a New Universe,
and so, a New Universe is created via the Big Bang, this is the Marvel Universe.
2. Sise-Neg, travels back in time & space,
as he drifts back he absorbs all the magical energy through all history,
when he reaches the Void (pre-Big Bang point) he has become "God"
he decides to re-create the Big Bang, and the same Marvel Universe is re-created.
3. Entropy evidently is Eternity's natural state recycling.
Entropy manipulates Genis into helping him end the Marvel Universe,
Creation returns to the Void,
from there,
Entropy explodes in the form of the Big Bang to re-create the Marvel Universe.
4. Thanos/THOTI, absorbs all reality, reality becomes a Void,
and it's the end of the Marvel Universe,
Thanos, Big Bang style, creates Reality, the Marvel Universe anew.
5. The Alien Entity stood in the void before the Big Bang,
the Alien Entity created the "Spark" that ignites creation with a thought,
The Alien Entity personally sparked the Big Bang with his own hands,
The Alien Entity indeed literally harnessed the energies of creation,
The Alien Entity (using Reed's mind as a guide) created the Marvel Universe and all its history.
.................................................................
This isn't surprising to me,
after all, that is what Marvel is ....
... a Universe that has expanded into UniverseS ..
... in the end though, it's all part of one original Universe,
and that's what everything (Multiverse/Omniverse whathaveyou)
returns to before further collapsing all matter/energy back to the Cosmic Egg,
which is smaller that atom, finally there is nothingness.
... only to be re-born into infinite UniverseS again.
The ignorance and lack of common sense on these forums is astonishing. Completely astonishing!
Oh dear. Where do I begin?
Not once have i argued that the Phoenix Force was the creator of Marvels realities.
What i have said and what i will continue to say is that the Force is the Big Bang. The creation energies which make up Marvel and that everything derives from.
You guys, (well Mr Master and this new CS whose sprung up in my absence) dont seem to get the difference, hence the constant uproar every time i relay exactly whats stated and depicted in the comics.
The ONLY true creator of bonafide proper Marvel realities is TOAA.
The Phoenix Force IS the Big Bang. Not the creator of reality, it IS those creation energies.
"Mother of the stars"
According to Kubik the power source from which the stars derive their power-
life force of reality
Reed Richards calls the force the energies of creation, the Big Bang-
The Phoenix Force recalls its origins as the Big Bang turned sentient
IN THE NATURAL SCHEME OF THINGS the Phoenix Force as stated on panel perpetuates the creation cycle.
It is the end of all things and the beginning
The Watcher verifies this-
Now what is shockingly dumb to me, are people looking at what Sise Neg did, what Genis did and what Reed did with Eternity and the Alien Entity THROUGH ARTIFICIAL INTERVENTION and then sayin duuhh err i tolds ya Phoenix isnt the Big Bang, i tolds ya Phoenix hasnt created a universe.
Are you guys serious? 😬
1) None of those guys created a universe, they reset what was there using energies/matter which were already present. Energies created by the creator, the same energies which are the Phoenix Force.
2) Going back in time or intervening with the natural order before reality is due to end or before reality has even started as per the natural order does not disprove what is stated and in some cases visually depicted by cosmic beings and reputable characters to be what happens AS PER THE NATURAL SCHEME OF THINGS
4)Going back in time absorbing all energies and then unleashing them as the Big Bang as Sise Neg did, does not disprove that the Phoenix Force before it took on its firebird form is those formless energies.
5) Going back in time and triggering the Big Bang before it happened as per the natural order does not disprove the Force is those energies or its role in kickstarting creation.
6) Blowing up representation of the chronal axis (Eternity) as Genis did and resetting reality does not disprove what happens in the natural order, what happens without artificial intervention.
Once again i am astounded. Really, really shocked that this required highlighting.
Originally posted by GalacticStormThe Phoenix Force recalls its origins as the Big Bang turned sentient
But to address this comedy:
That's the PF remembering being born after the Big Bang:
AGAIN!
***
The PF died with everything else, and was then Re-Born in the Big Bang,
just like everything else.
Like everything else:
Nice try though on the complete fabrication of what the PF said.
So just to reiterate, the Phoenix Force amongst other things is a multiversal entity, it is the creation power of reality, its being makes up the very Big Bang that triggers any particular universe.
It can empower its avatar to manipulate the atomic structure of whole realities, amputate timelines etc whilst simultaneously empowering a Phoenix Corps and being the energies of creation. Thats colossal 😱
I'll leave Mr Master to fret over comparative irrelevance such as restarting teensy singular universes derived from the Phoenixes being 🙂
Originally posted by Mr Master
Sise-Neg reamde all of Marvel in 1972(Marvel was a Universe with past & future timelines ... that's it)
It's even one of the 4 examples
Marvel gives us of the Marvel Universe being reborn from nothingness.[B]SiseNeg travelled across Timelines,
.
and even stated he was taking over the Universe & beyond==============================
The writer flat out states when SiseNeg finally achieved Godhood:
"Time - Space, it all melts into power ... power with a name ... SiseNeg"
=====
SiseNeg's original bio also states that he "became Godlike in magical power."
And as we know, he "absorbed all the magical energy in the entire universe"
(from the present of 616
back through the growth of the Marvelverse's time (all timelines)
to the point before the original Big Bang. (first creation of the universe)SiseNeg was responsible for the "second creation of the Universe"
=====
The writer also stated that SiseNeg contained "all extant power"
(so that's all existing power right there)
=====
So this is why SiseNeg was God at that point:
========================
Like I said:
Sis-Neg was traveling across Timelines in his absorption,
Timelines are separate Universes representing different points in time.
(In 72' Universes were solely labeled "Dimensions" ... we later learned this means Universes)(pocket dimensions/universes are another story, that's stuff like Meph's realm or Asgard)
*
Here's the specific statement coming from Sise-Neg
that confirms it was more than a single Universe:"The Universe and beyond"
----------------------------------------
In the end, yea Sise-Neg refers to all Reality as "The Universe"
but so did the Alien Entity arc, THOTI/Thanos arc
and even the Insane Genis/Entropy arc, called "The Universe" yet ...
was literally stated in the arc, to involve the prime Multiverse,
and ALL of Creation)Furthermore, according to Marvel:
There's only been one beginning,
and then there were 4 others that re-created that same beginning.1. The original Universe (Infinity Being) collapses into a Void (Cosmic Egg)
it allows one life to survive (Galan) it merges with Galan in order to create a New Universe,
and so, a New Universe is created via the Big Bang, this is the Marvel Universe.2. Sise-Neg, travels back in time & space,
as he drifts back he absorbs all the magical energy through all history,
when he reaches the Void (pre-Big Bang point) he has become "God"
he decides to re-create the Big Bang, and the same Marvel Universe is re-created.3. Entropy evidently is Eternity's natural state recycling.
Entropy manipulates Genis into helping him end the Marvel Universe,
Creation returns to the Void,
from there,
Entropy explodes in the form of the Big Bang to re-create the Marvel Universe.4. Thanos/THOTI, absorbs all reality, reality becomes a Void,
and it's the end of the Marvel Universe,
Thanos, Big Bang style, creates Reality, the Marvel Universe anew.5. The Alien Entity stood in the void before the Big Bang,
the Alien Entity created the "Spark" that ignites creation with a thought,
The Alien Entity personally sparked the Big Bang with his own hands,
The Alien Entity indeed literally harnessed the energies of creation,
The Alien Entity (using Reed's mind as a guide) created the Marvel Universe and all its history..................................................................
This isn't surprising to me,
after all, that is what Marvel is ....... a Universe that has expanded into UniverseS ..
... in the end though, it's all part of one original Universe,
and that's what everything (Multiverse/Omniverse whathaveyou)
returns to before further collapsing all matter/energy back to the Cosmic Egg,
which is smaller that atom, finally there is nothingness.... only to be re-born into infinite UniverseS again. [/B]
Originally posted by Mr Master
Everything else you posted is just more of the same ol' yip tap yoop nothing but hyperbole.But to address this comedy:
That's the PF remembering being born after the Big Bang:
AGAIN!
***
The PF died with everything else, and was then Re-Born in the Big Bang,
just like everything else.Like everything else:
Nice try though on the complete fabrication of what the PF said.
Fabrication? ❌
What i think youre forgetting is that the last multiverse was again destroyed by artificial intervention. The dweller in the darkness set off the m'kraan crystal, which then reset the multiverse. That is not how the cycle operates naturally.
Worthy attempt though clap
You really need to read and comprehend your own evidence before you post it. You give me so much to work with 😆
Phoenix perpetuates the creation cycle at the universal level.
Being the beginning and end in the natural order of things.
Once again AS PER THE NATURAL ORDER
Eternity verified this calling it the resurrection force, the assurance of a new cycle after the end of the old-
At the end of the last cycle where the crystal reset the multiverse the Force returns to its formless energy state before being reborn anew as the sentient Big Bang
The Force never truly dies 🙂
