Black Lantern Kal-L vs The Keeper (Surfer)

Originally posted by Horrificus
Wrong. Time is one responsibility. The vast majority of Eon's appearances involve his other appointed responsibility. In charge of Life, nurturing, protecting, etc.

And, I'm not going to get into the argument of who was a real avatar of life. Nobody appointed Drax as anything. It was just alluded to by non-abstract level characters.

Keeper belonged to Eon.

Sigh... I'll get the scans...

Originally posted by Horrificus
Cogito, look above your post, at the post from Zozop. THAT is how "adults" debate or converse about subjects. Not by hurling insults and accusations without any basis in fact.

But Keeper was APPOINTED by an Abstract Entity.

The same way that Thanos was appointed by Death as hers.

You are the one trolling. You have no evidence of ANYTHING, but continue to disagree and shoot down anything that doesn't go along with your view, regardless of scans or statements.

Watch your accusations. Disagreeing with you is nothing but a sign that I know what I am talking about.

You have done nothing but show that you have NOT read books outside of your narrow line of favorites. If you haven't read the books, you are simply proving that you are an idiot when you deny what was actually in them.

Be silent until you read a few.

Eon, with Quasar and in that short arc, the Keeper, have been official Protectors of the Universe, Life and Time for decades in the Marvel Universe.

If you don't know that, I suggest you do some reading. But, until you do, stop slinging insults and shooting down facts out of nothing but ignorance.

Go bully some newbies. You picked the wrong forum member to pull this crap on. 😉

Your quasar wanking is growing quite irritable. You haven't given a single proof but your opinions and you try to insinuate that only you read comics? Grow up. No one is insulting you.

Originally posted by zopzop
Yes but Eon is not an abstract or concept representing "life" or "the life force". He's an abstract that represents "time".

And the Keeper isn't an Avatar of Life in the same way Drax is, or even in any way period. That "Champion of Life" title was meant to contrast his role with finding non inhabited worlds with Galactus' need to feast on living worlds. It's not a station of power or authority, it was just him comparing/contrasting his role in the new Galactus/Keeper partnership.

These are comic books. We should be enjoying the conversations and sharing scans and stuff. Even if we don't agree.

At least, that's what I think.

Originally posted by abhilegend
😂

Your quasar wanking is growing quite irritable. You haven't given a single proof but your opinions and you try to insinuate that only you read comics? Grow up. No one is insulting you.

You have ignored scans with statements on-panel. Or, twisted what was on-panel. Or resorted to personal attacks for some retarded reason.

Now, why don't you do this one more time?

Post whatever proof you want and of what. I will either RE-POST the scans I have ALREADY posted, or post new ones.

And, for the record, I HAVEN'T EVEN TOUCHED MY "QUASAR" IN QUITE SOME TIME?

Originally posted by Horrificus
Cogito, look above your post, at the post from Zozop. THAT is how "adults" debate or converse about subjects. Not by hurling insults and accusations without any basis in fact.

First of all, I respect zopzop for his posts in this thread. However, I already made the point (several pages ago, in fact) he did about Keeper being a "Champion of Life" is just something Eon said as a contrast to Galactus' devourer of worlds (and apparently champion of death, according to Eon's implication?).

Originally posted by Horrificus
But Keeper was APPOINTED by an Abstract Entity.

The same way that Thanos was appointed by Death as hers.

Originally posted by Horrificus
You are the one trolling. You have no evidence of ANYTHING, but continue to disagree and shoot down anything that doesn't go along with your view, regardless of scans or statements.

In this thread I've proven, with evidence from scans, what can and cannot permakill a Black Lantern. You came into this thread and made wild claims about Keeper's self-imposed titles and pull a comment I made from another thread (which has no bearing on Keeper) as a way to insult and demean me.

You've provided no evidence to counter the on-panel evidence that EM spectrum control is not sufficient to sever a BL ring connection, yet every post you write is accusing Abhi or I (or others) of not having evidence. In fact, when we post evidence, you call it "bullying", "bashing", "slinging insults", "shooting down facts", and "nothing but ignorance".

That, by definition, is trolling hardcore.

Originally posted by Horrificus
And, your goofy group bullying, as you guys stand around together in your superman underwear, has BEEN irritating.

You have ignored scans with statements on-panel. Or, twisted what was on-panel. Or resorted to personal attacks for some retarded reason.

Now, why don't you do this one more time?

Post whatever proof you want and of what. I will either RE-POST the scans I have ALREADY posted, or post new ones.

And, for the record, I HAVEN'T EVEN TOUCHED MY "QUASAR" IN QUITE SOME TIME?

Originally posted by Cogito
First of all, I respect zopzop for his posts in this thread.

However, I already made the point (several pages ago, in fact) he did about Keeper being a "Champion of Life" is just something Eon said as a contrast to Galactus' devourer of worlds (and apparently champion of death, according to Eon's implication?).

He wasn't appointed anything. Keeper referred to himself as the Champion of Life, not Eon.

The point you made (several pages ago, in fact) was wrong and idiotic and as I have said, you haven't read the books.

Surfer was asked by Eon.

Surfer Chosen as Protector of the Universe.

Cosmic Entiry Eon... Mentor of the Universal Protector.

More on the way...

Originally posted by abhilegend
U mad?

If I was mad, I would be saying things that would scar you, and have you questioning the sexual basis of your familial relationships, instead of the positive, brotherly feedback I have been trying to give. 🙄

I'm still waiting for your list of contested facts.

I'm still not sure what special powers accompany the title "protector of the universe". Are there, or are there not, feats that show this title has any meaning?

Green Lanterns are "protectors of the universe" or universal police or whatever. That doesn't mean anything. The Guardians of the Galaxy is a title that doesn't mean anything.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Do you mean "insane-mad", or "wish-you-ill-mad"?

If I was mad, I would be saying things that would scar you, and have you questioning the sexual basis of your familial relationships, instead of the positive, brotherly feedback I have been trying to give. 🙄

I'm still waiting for your list of contested facts.

Horrificus,

I have no problem rehashing the facts. First though, I'd just like to know where to begin.

Do you believe Keeper can win by recreating the White Light of Creation (due to EM Spectrum control)?

Or do you now only believe Keeper will win because I said Thanos might have some influence as an avatar of death and you've contorted that into me arguing against myself because Keeper was called the "Protector of the Universe"?

Just need to know where to begin with the arguments.

Originally posted by Cogito
I'm still not sure what special powers accompany the title "protector of the universe". Are there, or are there not, feats that show this title has any meaning?

Green Lanterns are "protectors of the universe" or universal police or whatever. That doesn't mean anything. The Guardians of the Galaxy is a title that doesn't mean anything.

The Assigned Protector receives The Quantum Bands from Eon, Son of Eternity.

Powers

Energy Manipulation: Primarily, the bands are tools for manipulating forms of energy. A bearer of the quantum-bands can affect, alter, absorb, and channel any form of energy found in the Electromagnetic spectrum, from Gamma Rays to Radio Waves, and this also includes visible light. Quasar once absorbed and released the entire energy output of a star, funneling the radiation, and nuclear fusion, passing entirely through the bands. So great is the bands ability to absorb and control energy that most other energy manipulators (The Presence, Jack of Hearts, Living Laser… etc.) cannot come close to overwhelming the bands. The energy output of the bands is generally appears to be yellow in color, but since the bands have mastery of the entire EM spectrum, presumably a wielder could change the color of the energy at will. It is unknown why the energy seems to default to the yellow area of the visible band.

Energy Constructs: The bands can construct anything the wearer can imagine from "Quantum energy". The more care the bearer takes in the creation of a construct, the stronger and more durable it is. A practiced bearer can alter the mass of the constructs so that they have the consistency of molasses or to be lighter than air. These constructs last indefinitely or until the bearer reabsorbs the construct into the Q-bands.

Flight: The bands allow the bearer to fly in atmosphere or in space (surrounding the wearer in an energy aura to protect from the vacuum of space), and can achieve incredible speeds (Quasar once flew from New York Harbor to the Sea of Tranquility in under 5 minutes), Quasar had been clocked at near light-speed on several occasions. Starhawk was estimated at "thrice lightspeed" by Eon's offspring Era.

Teleportation: The Quantum-Bands also enable the bearer to "quantum-jump" or create apertures between the fabric of space/time of various sizes in the actual world of matter and energy and the potential world of matter and energy that is the quantum zone. He can then travel through this trackless featureless zone and emerge at a different point in our physical space light years away from his starting point only seconds later. His quantum-bands enable him to keep his bearings while in the zone and thus emerge where he wants to. He can cross countless light years in a single jump, (taking only seconds) if he so desires. Important note, however, he cannot quantum-jump within a planetary atmosphere without ripping a hole in its ozone layer unless he does so from within a construct like a large energy bubble. Quasar has on one occasion used his Quantum-jump ability to simultaneously send one Avengers' Quinjet (upgraded for space travel) to Kree space within the Greater Magellanic Cloud; another to the Shi'ar galaxy.

Communications: The bands can detect, emit, and receive radio waves; thereby the bearer can communicate with other radio receivers. The bands can also create a “Quantum-link” which appears as a glowing golden sphere about 2 inches in diameter, which travels to the point of contact at warp speeds and connects with any communication device present allowing the bearer to carry on near-instantaneous communications even over extra-galactic distances.

Altered Metabolism: One previous bearer of the Quantum bands(Marvel Boy) has been known to be able to augment his strength and stamina to unknown limits with the Quantum-bands. Quasar himself rarely exhibited this ability and only when it was needed. He once physically restrained She-Hulk by himself, whether this was a statement of his physical strength or her own restraint is unknown, though she seemed to struggle against him.

Mental Protection: Despite the fact that the Quantum-Bands have no control over the mind or Psionics, at least one previous bearer (Quasar) had "programed" the Bands to protect his mind for mental attacks and takeover. So powerful is this protection that powerful psychics, such as Moondragon or the Overmind could not overcome it.

Mental/Physical Bond: The Quantum Bands bond with their bearer upon contact interfacing with the bearer's mind allowing for mental control. Permanently affixing themselves generally to the bearer's wrists, the flesh and bone within rendered indestructible so long as the bond with the bands persists. The bond can only be broken upon the bearer's death, at which point the bands could be removed easily.

Cosmic Awareness: From time to time, Eon has allowed Quasar the use of his Cosmic Awareness, but this is not always available, due to the impact it can have on the mind. (See Genis-Vell)

Originally posted by Cogito
Horrificus,

I have no problem rehashing the facts. First though, I'd just like to know where to begin.

Do you believe Keeper can win by recreating the White Light of Creation (due to EM Spectrum control)?

Or do you now only believe Keeper will win because I said Thanos might have some influence as an avatar of death and you've contorted that into me arguing against myself because Keeper was called the "Protector of the Universe"?

Just need to know where to begin with the arguments.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Do you mean "insane-mad", or "wish-you-ill-mad"?

If I was mad, I would be saying things that would scar you, and have you questioning the sexual basis of your familial relationships, instead of the positive, brotherly feedback I have been trying to give. 🙄

I'm still waiting for your list of contested facts.

Originally posted by abhilegend
And? What does that exactly prove? Roma is "teh guardian of omniverse". Titles are just titles.

Originally posted by Cogito
I'm still not sure what special powers accompany the title "protector of the universe". Are there, or are there not, feats that show this title has any meaning?

Green Lanterns are "protectors of the universe" or universal police or whatever. That doesn't mean anything. The Guardians of the Galaxy is a title that doesn't mean anything.

Recently, without the Bands, Quasars Powers increased/changed-

Powers

Since his resurrection in "Quantum-Light" form during Secret Invasion, Wendell Vaughn seems to have a vast array of personal power not unlike the powers of the Quantum Bands. This is a hypothetical list based on the powers he has thus far exhibited and explanations (with some scientific basis) as to why he must have a power even he has yet to display it.
Cosmic Awareness:

Wendell Vaughn has declared he has Cosmic Awareness, but has explained that it is to a lesser degree than a cosmic entity such as Ego or Eon has. This gives Wendell the potential of Omniscience, but it's likely that he simply has access to a large 'library' of information by simply thinking about a particular subject.
Density Control:

This ability is assumed as some level of it would be required to make the Shape-Shifting power worthwhile. Becoming the Hulk and hitting someone doesn't have as much impact if you have the density of a typical human or average energy construct. At the same time if he indeed is made of energy then he must obey the hypothetical laws of energy and light. Einstein postulated quite famously that Energy equals Mass, therefore if Quasar has control of his Quantum-Light form, then he probably has a similar control over his density and mass.
Energy Channelling:

While he does not seem to have the vast energy-manipulating powers of the Quantum Bands, Quasar seems to the ability to generate damaging energy blasts and also the ability to large devastating explosions. The later of these seems to expend his energy and at the time he was forced to return to the Quantum Flask, but the Flask has since been shattered by Richard Rider. It's unknown what effect the larger explosion would have on his form.
Energy form:

Since his resurrection Wendell Vaughn now seems to be composed of energy or light; functioning with Vaughn's personality and memories. This effectively makes him immortal (as energy can neither be created nor destroyed). It has yet to be explained how this has happened to him as a result of his body being destroyed by Annihilus. Powerful energy manipulators would likely have a degree of control over Quasar's form.
Flight:

Quasar can fly but has not been clocked doing any particular speed. We can assume he is now limited by the speed of light (since he is composed of light), roughly 186,000 miles per second.
Shape-Shifting:

As he is now composed of energy, he seems to no longer be limited by a physical form, he can change his physical appearance at will. In Nova #18 he took the form of an energy-construct Hulk to dispatch a genetically augmented Skrull at Project: Pegasus shortly after his resurrection.
Teleportation/Dimension Travel:

Quasar has exhibited the ability to move in a flash of light from one location to another. This goes above and beyond the speed of light, as he was at Project: Pegasus in one moment and in the Realm of Oblivion the next. Wendell mentioned that he felt the Quantum-Bands call him to his location because of his connection to the Bands.

: (post)
Originally posted by abhilegend
And? What does that exactly prove? Roma is "teh guardian of omniverse". Titles are just titles.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman, batman and wonder woman are officially three founding stones of DCU and can't be beaten when acting together. Darkseid is essential for all creation and one time he was removed from timeline, entire reality collapsed. All of that means diddly squat here.

You quoted yourself. Is there an argument going on?

Do you also refer to yourself in the third-person? 🙄
"Mother, abhilegend would like a cookie now!"
"abhilegend requires a hug. Now!"

Originally posted by Horrificus
You quoted yourself. Is there an argument going on?

Do you also refer to yourself in the third-person? 🙄
"Mother, abhilegend would like a cookie now!"
"abhilegend requires a hug. Now!"

Originally posted by abhilegend
I didn't want to type that again. Yeah, you're funny. Now answer the quesgtion. Your distractions are pathetic.

My posts were in response to arguments stating that only light-based power-wielders with access to the universal life flow have been able to have an effect on Black Lanterns.

THAT, along with Cogito's statement that he would entertain the idea that Thanos, as an official avatar of the universes Death Abstract, might be in a position to have an effect.

I was defining the powers and station of the Keeper as a combination of:

1. Light/Energy Manipulation on a Universal Power-Scale
2. Official Agent of The Abstract Entity Governing Universal Life

Originally posted by Horrificus
Sigh... what a sh**head. Well, I tried.

My posts were in response to arguments stating that only light-based power-wielders with access to the universal life flow have been able to have an effect on Black Lanterns.

THAT, along with Cogito's statement that he would entertain the idea that Thanos, as an official avatar of the universes Death Abstract, might be in a position to have an effect.

I was defining the powers and station of the Keeper as a combination of:

1. Light/Energy Manipulation on a Universal Power-Scale
2. Official Agent of The Abstract Entity Governing Universal Life

Light manipulator with emotional ties to black lanterns you mean. If you didn't noticed it before , I am not cogito. There you can have it.

1. Step it down, nothing keeper did suggested that he was a universal level enery manipulator.

2. What does that mean in this fight? Has he ever done something that helps him in this fight. You aren't simply grasping the idea that a level means jackshit in a forum fight.

It has already been proven in this thread that EM spectrum manipulation is not enough. Both Ray and Dr. Light, along with others (e.g. JSA) tried that and it explicitly failed on every single attempt.

What was sufficient was combining EM Spectrum control with a necessary range of emotions at a sufficient level. In the case of Dr. Light, this occurred while she was fighting the evil Dr. Light who was trashing her father etc in an attempt to increase her emotional level (higher emotion level is better feeding for BLs). There was on-panel evidence of Dr. Light (female) showing heightened levels of hope, fear, anger, etc, and then she used that emotional spectrum energy with her electromagnetic to create the white light of creation (not just white light, which doesn't work).

Surfer couldn't care less about Kal-L, he isn't going to be angry, fearful, willful, compassionate, loving, etc all at the same time in this fight in the way that is required to create the white light of creation.

If a member of his family or a close acquaintance turned into a Black Lantern and that's who he was fighting, I would absolutely give it to Keeper 10/10.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Well, that's really beautiful! I'm wrong. You are actually a very polite, honorable guy. 🙂

The point you made (several pages ago, in fact) was wrong and idiotic and as I have said, you haven't read the books.

Surfer was asked by Eon.

Surfer Chosen as Protector of the Universe.

Cosmic Entiry Eon... Mentor of the Universal Protector.

More on the way...

Horrificus, I'm sorry but you are wrong on this one. These are only titles, they have no meaning power or authority wise.

Here is the definitive proof -
a) Quasar is dead and he's been given a quantum body by Infinity. Eon is about to be killed by Maelstrom and states that he needs his protector but he is "Beyond the powers of my reckoning". If Eon really was a "life elemenatal/abstract/concept" why couldn't he detect/resurrect the dead Quasar?

b) Quasar thought that it was Eon that had created the Quantum body for him and feared that as soon as he killed Eon, he too would die but it turned out it WASN'T Eon that created the Q-body for Quasar. It was Infinity.

c) if this didn't convince you. Before this incident, Quasar's father had a heart attack and died. Eon couldn't resurrect him and instead animated him like a puppet to attempt to fool Quasar into thinking his father was still alive. The reason why Eon did this was because he didn't want Quasar to be distracted by his father's death and focus on his mission. Yet he resorted to the puppet trick because Eon couldn't raise the dead. He has NO power over life and death. If you want the scan I can provide it too.