Originally posted by operator616If you want to discuss my standards, then discuss them. If you want me to clarify what I think of your random statements, I'll clarify my thoughts. If you want to conflate the two as one disproving the other, then I invite you to exit the conversation.
Ah, so now we're going by what was stated as opposed to what was actually shown (alternate universes with alternate characters); did you forget what your standards dictate? Hmm......
Originally posted by operator616Lucifer's creation did not depict alternate universes. Nuff said. Sorry, but read the above where I address Epicurus on the very same thing. Go ahead and prove otherwise on this extremely flimsy tangent that actually has nothing to do with my standard, since we're just running away from what Lucifer created in issue #13.
you tried to low-ball the Lucifer #13 feat by saying that alternate universes weren't depicted throughout the series , so ok, i was willing to put that aside and focus on Lucifer's initial feat. Creating Yahweh's multiverse which is confirmed to contain alternate universes.
Originally posted by operator616I'm sorry that when I see a mirror shattered by a boat made of nails flying into it, when I see they're called "failed," when I see that Yahweh's revelations show that Lucifer and Michael had nothing to do with them, when I see that someone's mere presence obliterates them completely, that I don't consider them to be anywhere close to what you want them to be. Fully-functioning stand-alone universes. They're shades. Memories of the play-throughs that God had down to a nicety. Fully-functioning universes don't get obliterated by someone's mere passing.
That aside, nice low-balling. I mean, if you really think that the pathetic Marvel omniverse is as fragile as Yahweh's, seeing as how a significant portion of the omniverse was getting destroyed when the french and english empires of an alternate earth went to battle (no kidding), in New Exiles.....http://i.imgur.com/aWDQswP.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pHLtVdP.jpg?1.....then i don't know what to do for you.
A war systematically destabilizing the countless alternate universes of the multiverse I can understand. Someone's mere passing INSTANTLY OBLITERATING the countless alternate universes of multiverse, no. That says more about how the weakness of any claim to multiversality then anything. That they're not fully-functioning stand-alone universes. They're shades and memories. And they still have nothing to do with Lucifer's creation.
Since the rest of your irrelevant post depends on your unprrven assertions being taken for granted, they're noted and dismissed. Reread Lucifer #39. And when you want to discuss Lucifer's creation, reread my standards. Then apply them.
Originally posted by EpicurusTop of page 21, clod. Pretty obvious since it's the very same page I started mentioning it. I'm sure you'll just pretend to not realize that was directed at both you and operator616, so fine. I can quote it for you if you like.
Point out which of your posts I've hidden away from.
The saddest thing though, is you and operator616 thought the Mansions of Silence were some sort of unassailable ace-card because you believed Lucifer was responsible for them. But you completely missed the most obvious god damned thing that disproves such an assertion. And we'll wait to see just how long it takes for you to discover it. Because at this point, I can't give you the credit of realizing it and just hiding it and hoping nobody points out the obvious. No. The bluster makes it too obvious that you don't even know. And that's really just endemic of the discussion.
^ You seem to have forgot that i told you i have evidence that Lucifer and Michael created Yahweh's creation, so.....read ahead, and we'll see who's got the evidence on his side.
Originally posted by ODG
http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Lucifer25.jpg.html
That's a reference to Elaine's creation, nothing to do with Lucifer. Not that it contradicts anything, in fact same scan says that it's a third creation standing besides Yahweh's (confirmed multiverse), and Lucifer's (arguably, a multiverse).
Originally posted by ODG
Actually, I argued that Preacher God created the Preacher universe. We saw Earth, and dimensions outside of normal space-time, like Heaven and Hell. People tried to argue that God only created the planet Earth and not the universe entire.
You could have shut that down, by posting God's bio which confirms that he created the universe:
http://i.imgur.com/u9OALvR.jpg?1
"Creator of the universe"
Originally posted by ODG
If you want to discuss my standards, then discuss them. If you want me to clarify what I think of your random statements, I'll clarify my thoughts. If you want to conflate the two as one disproving the other, then I invite you to exit the conversation.
Instead of giving me this irrelevant speech, you could have just clarified your stance, you know.
Yahweh's creation depicted alternate universes, with alternate characters (which is exactly what your standards declare for it to be a true multiverse). Yet you continue to deny that.....based on statements, which according to your standards are irrelevant as long as they're contradicted by what's actually shown on panel.
Simple.
Originally posted by ODG
I'm sorry that when I see a mirror shattered by a boat made of nails flying into it, when I see they're called "failed," when I see that Yahweh's revelations show that Lucifer and Michael had nothing to do with them, when I see that someone's mere presence obliterates them completely, that I don't consider them to be anywhere close to what you want them to be. Fully-functioning stand-alone universes. They're shades. Memories of the play-throughs that God had down to a nicety. Fully-functioning universes don't get obliterated by someone's mere passing.
First off, they're part of Yahweh's creation, that's the main reason why we see an alternate version of Cal. Had it been a separate creation from Yahweh's, we'd have different characters like Silk Man, for instance (who's from a creation other than Yahweh's).
Those universes were *perhaps" rejected ones; ok, how does this exactly take away from the fact that they were actual alternate universes, with alternate characters?
This exact same thing applies when it comes to different multiverses in Marvel, like New Universe, to name one, or Earth-Shadowline. They have completely different characters with no relation whatsoever to the mainstream multiverse.
Now, Lucifer and Michael created Yahweh's creation (for proof, see ahead).
Originally posted by ODG
Yahweh's revelations show that Lucifer and Michael had nothing to do with them
And what exactly was revealed in Lucifer #39, that Yahweh had no need for Lucifer and Michael? True, but how does this change from the fact that they're the ones who created his multiverse?
I told you before that ive got evidence for this.
Let's see on panel shall we: Lucifer #26 directly credits Michael and Lucifer for Yahweh's creation (this is confirmed several times, too)
http://i.imgur.com/Sv0IZh9.jpg?1
the Vertigo Encyclopedia outright says that they're the ones responsible for his creation:
http://i.imgur.com/lfrDAlz.jpg?1
You can keep denying it all you want, just so that all know that on panel and bio accounts don't agree with you.
Also, ODG, im still waiting for you to answer the most important part of this discussion which you seemed to have ignored (can't imagine why):
Originally posted by operator616
CK is universal (your own standards), and Lucifer is multiversal (even if you do not acknowledge any of his creations being a multiverse, which you should, at least Yahweh's).So, it shouldn't be hard to pick a winner....should it? And concede the point that CK < Lucifer.
If you do not, then go right ahead and explain how a being, who dwarfs multiversal entities, isn't more powerful than a universal one (Chaos King). Id like to hear that.
Originally posted by operator616Butchering of simple English again, so.....read ahead, and we'll see who's got the evidence on his side.
^ You seem to have forgot that i told you i have evidence that Lucifer and Michael created Yahweh's creation, so.....read ahead, and we'll see who's got the evidence on his side.
Originally posted by operator616We know. I announced that, "when the universality of each of their creations is exposed throughout the entire series on-panel." If you're going to jump into other people's conversations, you're best served actually reading them. It's yet another reference to the universality of the creations that Lucifer dealt with in his journey. No matter how flimsy your reverse-projection, twice removed, is.
That's a reference to Elaine's creation , nothing to do with Lucifer. Not that it contradicts anything, in fact same scan says that it's a third creation standing besides Yahweh's (confirmed multiverse), and Lucifer's (arguably, a multiverse).
Originally posted by operator616Nobody gives a sh1t about bios. I, least of all. I read the comics. Apparently, a sentiment shared by very few in this thread.
You could have shut that down, by posting God's bio which confirms that he created the universe:http://i.imgur.com/u9OALvR.jpg?1
"Creator of the universe"
Originally posted by operator616just told you to shut up since you're trying to cover up for your reading gaffes. But I decided to lay out for you why I find your posts to be tedious. I'll do my best not to outright bash you, but don't expect me to not condescend. I shouldn't have to explain how much your posts lack focus, partly because you jump in between conversations and pick and choose what you want to address without context of why they were asserted. Moreover, you keep forcing your assumptions (heretofore, unproven) on the conversation I have with other posters. It's called sticking words into other people's mouths. Which is doubly ironic, when the entire discussion revolves around whether my standards are met by the Lucifer's creation feat. Not your standards and your assumptions.
Instead of giving me this irrelevant speech, you could have
Originally posted by operator616Irrelevant to Lucifer.
First off, they're part of Yahweh's creation, that's the main reason why we see an alternate version of Cal. Had it been a separate creation from Yahweh's, we'd have different characters like Silk Man, for instance (who's from a creation other than Yahweh's).Those universes were *perhaps" rejected ones; ok, how does this exactly take away from the fact that they were actual alternate universes, with alternate characters?
This exact same thing applies when it comes to different multiverses in Marvel, like New Universe, to name one, or Earth-Shadowline. They have completely different characters with no relation whatsoever to the mainstream multiverse.
Lucifer had nothing to do with them. And while they're arguably shades and memories of failed universes, they're not fully alternate universes. Reread my standards on page 8 and read ahead.
New Universe and Earth-Shadowline have absolutely nothing to do with the Mansions of Silence. Fully alternate universes don't get obliterated by boats made of human nails or in the wake of someone's passing.
Originally posted by operator616Yes, Yahweh's current creation (before Elaine's subsumed it). If you have proof that Lucifer had anything to do with the Mansions of Silence though, prove that.
Now, Lucifer and Michael created Yahweh's creation (for proof, see ahead).And what exactly was revealed in Lucifer #39, that Yahweh had no need for Lucifer and Michael? True, but how does this change from the fact that they're the ones who created his multiverse?
It was revealed that God had played his creation "through a thousand times . . . knew its growth and decay to a nicety . . . ." Because he's done it on his own before. Lucifer and Michael weren't required for those previous play-throughs, plainly stated by Yahweh's thoughts in the pool. Lucifer and Michael were the point of the current creation that most of the Lucifer series dealt with. They did create that universe.
The rest of your post once again is irrelevant because you're either misreading the comics, or my statements. I leave you to figure out which.
Originally posted by operator616They're both universal. So even if your loaded question has gone totally unnoticed/ignored before, now you have your reason as to why your irrelevant question never got answered. Because you loaded your question with a blank assumption based on your own preconceptions rather than mine.
Also, ODG, im still waiting for you to answer the most important part of this discussion which you seemed to have ignored (can't imagine why):
Despite your questions purporting to be aimed at taking my own considerations into play. Your posts may not be laced with insults like Epicurus', which is refreshing, but I find them to be increasingly oafish because of your propensity for putting words into other people's mouths and making assumptions that aren't being taken for granted.
Indeed, these are the very assumptions being disputed over pages of discussion.
Originally posted by ODG
Then let's see some more
Originally posted by ODG
Not a true multiverse of alternate universes. Just a universe containing normal space-time and its subset of dimensions/realms. The same definition used by other writers in comics. Because we never once see these alternate universes in Lucifer's creation on-panel. Just like we never see the alternate universes that CHaos King ate or Supergod Hercules restored. There's a difference in magnitude of infinity between universe and multiverse. And it has to be clear. It's a larger difference between planetary and galactic. Here, it is not. Here, it is more clear that Lucifer's creation was a universe.
Originally posted by ODG
Most of this proof is from Lucifer's own mouth. Which is probably why it chafes so much.
Originally posted by ODG
Issue # and page #, please. Make it easier to tear down every stupid deflection you try to impose on this thread that has nothing to do with Lucifer's creation feat.
Originally posted by ODG
Actually, I argued
Originally posted by ODG
That strikes me as my being the temperate medium between those who would lowball and those who would over-inflate. But really, it's just me reading the comics for what they are. Not for what people want to twist them into being. So, thanks for bringing that up I guess.I'm sure that point didn't just blow up in your face.
It did in yours though./shrugs
Originally posted by ODG
Lucifer and Michael did not create them.
Originally posted by ODG
You've already pointed out how Lucifer's creation is specifically different from Yahweh's. So actually, not 2+2. It's just you being laughably over-simplistic in an attempt to reverse-project a flimsy notion of multiversality onto Lucifer's creation. Lucifer created a universe on-panel. Wasn't even the same as Yahweh's admittedly. When you can show me Lucifer creating and tending to countless alternae versions of his universe, heck, even creating the Mansions of Silence for his own creation, maybe you'd have a better point (still sh1tty as the Mansions of Silence are a rather inadequate and frail notion of multiversality, both figuratively and literally).
Originally posted by ODG
I'm talking
Originally posted by ODG
Top of page 21, clod. Pretty obvious since it's the very same page I started mentioning it. I'm sure you'll just pretend to not realize that was directed at both you and operator616, so fine. I can quote it for you if you like.The saddest thing though, is you and operator616 thought the Mansions of Silence were some sort of unassailable ace-card because you believed Lucifer was responsible for them. But you completely missed the most obvious god damned thing that disproves such an assertion. And we'll wait to see just how long it takes for you to discover it. Because at this point, I can't give you the credit of realizing it and just hiding it and hoping nobody points out the obvious. No. The bluster makes it too obvious that you don't even know. And that's really just endemic of the discussion.
The saddest thing though is you subscribing to this literal quan-style argument of first lowballing Lucifer's feat by borrowing that silly little detail which quan made up a long time back about Lucifer somehow having some special protection from the Demiurgos simply because it's in his nature to craft such power with his will, then there was the hilarity of you denying the destructive aspect of demiurgos by claiming that it's creation energy(another thing which quan used to do word for word in Lucifer threads), and now this sh1tty form of mental gymnastic whereby you put up pointless walls o' text to deny that the existence of alternate universes validates the idea of Yahweh's creation(and Lucifer's by proxy) being a multiverse.
In fact, come to think of it, calling such awful debating tactics as "quan-style arguments" would be an insult to even quan himself. You've become a whole new breed of troll on this board, ODG. A congrats would be in order were it not for the tragedy of such an accomplishment.🙁
Well I can't believe this hasn't been brought up yet but when Michael and Lucifer was talking when he divided the gate, and Michael asks what Lucifer has done to it, he (Lucifer) replies "Think about infinity . It'll come to you". "I've folded it through time and space . There's a gate on every world now, in every realm ". Seems like they are talking about a multiverse here.. Any thoughts? 😗
Originally posted by EpicurusOkie dokie, more scans cementing the universality of the creations dealt with in Lucifer:
Let's
I mean, we get your threatened by reading the comics. But that's your problem, not mine.
Originally posted by EpicurusNo. Yahweh's creation as molded by Lucifer was a single universe. Any failed/shade/memory of previous universes that Yahweh played through have no place in a discussion with Lucifer and his power.
Absolutely false. We see on panel Yahweh's creation consisting of alternate universes.
Originally posted by EpicurusJust because you admit in the same breath that Lucifer's creation isn't identical to Yahweh's, doesn't mean you can just go ahead and reverse-project the sh1tty Mansions of Silence onto Lucifer's creation... all off-panel.
We see Lucifer's creation essentially being identical to Yahweh's barring the afterlife rule. Lucifer's Creation is a multiverse as proven on-panel here:
http://s1160.photobucket.com/user/TheGodKiller666/media/Lucifer_Nirvana_p05_zps856eab24.jpg.html
Originally posted by EpicurusSame bullsh1t Cho laid down. Either stick with my standards or admit they aren't met.
The multiverse proof is also from Lucifer's own mouth. Which is probably why it stings so much.
Originally posted by EpicurusI'm not going to do extra work just because you feel like wasting several minutes of my time. It's not hard, pick a random issue # and pg # and I'll post it. And by your own rationale, it shouldn't take you long to gloss over your own collection and confirm the issue # and pg # yourself and tell me. Trying to get me to play Where's Waldo? isn't the point of all this (although you're trying your damndest to do so). It's about whether I'm poaching sh1t off of Respect Threads. Which, who phucking cares, anyway, but like I said, I don't mind deconstructing your entire charade.
Not going to spoon-feed you here. If you truly do have the Lucifer series, or have at least read the comics before, then you would know which storyline I am talking about and it shouldn't take you long to gloss over your collection and find the issues. If you can't, then concede. Put up or shut up. Your choice.
Originally posted by EpicurusIf that really chafes, I could do that equally here as well. Still wouldn't change anything as no multiverse exists in the Bible. But I'm not going to read about adventures in Heaven, Hell, God, Jesus and pull it completely out of its literary context just to lowball a version of God because it's not fair to Thanos.
Using the Bible as evidence. Don't try to deny it. You'll look sillier than you already are. And you've proven yourself to be quite silly already.😂
Originally posted by EpicurusReread Lucifer #39 and please, for the sake of all that is holy, realize the HUGE PLOT HOLE that you're missing that disproves Lucifer created the Mansions of Silence.
You would fit right in seeing how you've been doing the lowballing part to one character(Lucifer) while doing the overinflating part to his opponent in this thread(CK). For future preferences, never give such an in-detail description of yourself. After all, you wouldn't want people to think that you're silly, right?13It did in yours though./shrugs
Scans mentioning this little tidbit of info? Because those mirrors were located near the MoS, and we saw the MoS being portrayed as part of Yahweh's creation...which was originally created by Lucifer/Michael.
IS it REALLY NOT THAT PHUCKING OBVIOUS?
Originally posted by EpicurusIt actually was. So address it. Or don't.
That post wasn't directed towards me, you witless tool. But then again you already knew that, didn't you?kinda
Originally posted by EpicurusSo you ran away from the post again. No problem. I can't make you do what you're clearly afraid of doing.
The saddest thing though is you subscribing to this literal quan-style argument of first lowballing Lucifer's feat by borrowing that silly little detail which quan made up a long time back about Lucifer somehow having some special protection from the Demiurgos simply because it's in his nature to craft such power with his will, then there was the hilarity of you denying the destructive aspect of demiurgos by claiming that it's creation energy(another thing which quan used to do word for word in Lucifer threads), and now this sh1tty form of mental gymnastic whereby you put up pointless walls o' text to deny that the existence of alternate universes validates the idea of Yahweh's creation(and Lucifer's by proxy) being a multiverse.In fact, come to think of it, calling such awful debating tactics as "quan-style arguments" would be an insult to even quan himself. You've become a whole new breed of troll on this board, ODG. A congrats would be in order were it not for the tragedy of such an accomplishment.🙁
Originally posted by kevdudeSame worlds and realms they visited throughout the uLcifer series on-panel. The places where gods, faeries, dark elves, dwell. All within Yahweh's singular universe.
Well I can't believe this hasn't been brought up yet but when Michael and Lucifer was talking when he divided the gate, and Michael asks what Lucifer has done to it, he (Lucifer) replies "Think about infinity . It'll come to you". "I've folded it through time and space . There's a gate on every world now, in every realm ". Seems like they are talking about a multiverse here.. Any thoughts? 😗
Originally posted by ODG
Okie dokie, more scans cementing the universality of the creations dealt with in Lucifer:
Originally posted by ODG
I mean, we get your threatened by reading the comics.
Originally posted by ODG
But that's your problem, not mine.
Originally posted by ODG
No. Yahweh's creation as molded by Lucifer was a single universe.
Originally posted by ODG
Just because you admit
Originally posted by ODG
Same bullsh1t Cho laid down. Either stick with my standards or admit they aren't met.
Originally posted by ODG
Either stick with my standards or admit they aren't met.
Originally posted by ODG
I'm not going to do extra work just
Originally posted by ODG
If that really chafes, I could do that equally here as well. Still wouldn't change anything as no multiverse exists in the Bible. But I'm not going to read about adventures in Heaven, Hell, God, Jesus and pull it completely out of its literary context just to lowball a version of God because it's not fair to Thanos.
Originally posted by ODG
Reread Lucifer #39 and please, for the sake of all that is holy, realize the HUGE PLOT HOLE that you're missing that disproves Lucifer created the Mansions of Silence.IS it REALLY NOT THAT PHUCKING OBVIOUS?
WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH YAHWEH'S CREATION BEING AN INDISPUTABLE MULTIVERSE?
Originally posted by ODG
It actually was. So address it. Or don't. So you ran away from the post again. No problem. I can't make you do what you're clearly afraid of doing. Same worlds and realms they visited throughout the uLcifer series on-panel. The places where gods, faeries, dark elves, dwell. All within Yahweh's singular universe.
Ah yup you are correct about the gates. 👆
Originally posted by EpicurusThen address it now. Since I am throwing it in your face. Or don't.
No, it wasn't. Stop pretending that it was.😂 You really are a certified retard.
Originally posted by EpicurusAh, yes. The patented KMC tactic of reporting a guy for posting new scans about the exact comics we're discussing that bear directly on the exact issue about whether or not the creations of Yahweh, Lucifer and Elaine featured throughout Lucifer were universal, or multiversal in nature...
Reported for spamming.🙂
... no, wait. Nobody has ever reported anybody for posting new evidence in the form of new scans that are directly probative of the issue at hand. I mean... not once have I ever once seen that. Sure, if I posted the same scans over and over again like 6x over, that'd be something reportable. But I'm posting new scans, that are from comics throughout the Lucifer series that bear directly on its multiversality, or lack thereof.
Someone doesn't like reading the comics apparently. Someone doesn't like proof. Someone doesn't like their biased preconceptions be up-ended by the actual comics at issue. Not my problem. And not a reportable offense, as far as I know. So, by all means, try to squelch my proferance of evidence all you like. It's not indicative of how weak your overall position is. In the meantime, here's anther scan reinforcing that the 3 creations dealt with were universal:
Originally posted by EpicurusNo, it didn't. Yahweh's creation, where much of Lucifer is set in, did not involve fully alternate universes. Reread my standards set forth on pg 8. Since this is all about my standards. Those were not fully-functioning alternate universes. They were memories/shades of former creations discarded by Yahweh before he decided to bring forth Michael and Lucifer. We know that Marvel has a multiverse. And that 616 is a multiverse. But just because Cho dropped a loaded term, "multiverse," doesn't necessarily make it so. Especially not when Chaos King's and Supergod Herc's feats involving those countless alternate universes must have happened of-panel. Same with Lucifer. The laughably "multiversal" Mansions of Silence were necessarily not created by Lucifer. Thus, Lucifer never had a multiversal feat to his name prior to his own creation. And since we already admit that Lucifer's creation is bot exactly equivalent to Yahweh's creation, then you cannot reverse-project that Lucifer created his own Mansions of Silence... all off-panel.
False. It consisted of multiple alternate universes. Which means a multiverse. Which means Lucifer's scope of power is multiversal.That you're an outright liar in addition to being a spamming idiot of a troll. And your post just validates said admission on my part.
Especially when it's based on no evidence, whatsoever.
Originally posted by EpicurusNice quaneuver. If it's the same bs loaded term being laced in both stories, why am I supposed to take one for granted and not the other? Especially when it was dropped more often in Chaos War? Your attempt to point out inconsistency in the application of my standard failed miserably. Despite the flurry of conversations I have to keep track of. Not my first rodeo, pal.
Good. Point out where exactly did I deny that the feat performed by CK wasn't multiversal then.
Originally posted by EpicurusThe alternate universes shown by the Mansions of Silence could not have been created by Lucifer. Why? Well, #1 Yahweh revealed to Michael and Lucifer that he played out his creation a thousand times before he ever brought forth Lucifer or Yahweh and therefore, invariably before Lucifer+Michael's creation of Yahweh's universe which is primarily featured throughout Lucifer. #2 Lucifer's first-recorded molding of the demiurgic energies could not have involved the "alternate universes" comprising the Mansions of Silence. As they would have been destroyed outright at the beginning of creation by Lucifer's mere presence. Since, y'know, that's exactly what happened when Lucifer got anywhere near the Mansions of Silence on-panel.
I did. I also stomped a mudhole into them by providing relevant and reasonable evidence supporting Lucifer's case. Same can't be said of you, despite all the time and energy which you put in lowballing Lucifer. Awful.Concession accepted then.🙂
Go ahead then and make an even bigger moron of yourself than you already have. Although in your victim complex addled mind you would probably think you're being clever, using the phucking Bible of all things as evidence in a comic book debate, standing up to the tyrant Lucifer fans in this thread.
Nope. It's not. The Mansions being too fragile to support his presence is not proof that they weren't the product of his and Michael's efforts which resulted in the original Creation of Yahweh's. Not to mention, the more obvious question is:
WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH YAHWEH'S CREATION BEING AN INDISPUTABLE MULTIVERSE?
So, y'know, you missed the revelation behind Lucifer #39. That Yahweh was a manipulative a-hole, who played the creation game long before Michael and Lucifer entered the picture. Michael and Lucifer were never necessary to His creation. Although Lucifer's role is His Will and Michael is His Power, Yahweh played out creation a thousand times before they even existed, i.e., the cast-off, fragile and failed mirror/shade/memories that comprise the Mansions of Silence. Lucifer and Michael's role was to inherit a new creation and display what randomness outside of His predestination would bring about. The crux of the series, in case you decided to completely miss the entire point of the Lucifer series. Accordingly, Lucifer never was responsible for the Mansions of Silence.
And you've not shown a single iota of evidence that Lucifer created his own accompanying set of alternate universes when he made his own creation in Lucifer #13. We already know it's different from Yahweh's universe. You admitted it. So show me evidence that Lucifer created endless alternate analogues of his universe off-panel.
Or don't. Because you can't. All you can do, is assume some half-baked notion of multiversality onto one feat (the "original big bang" which turned out to be not so original after all from the revelations of "Lucifer #39), reverse-project that onto Lucifer's feat (which never once was displayed on-panel as containing countless alternate universes across 60+ issues), and then make a Hulk-like leap of logic into equating Yahweh's most recent creation with Lucifer's despite already admitting they're not the same, and then feature this bastardization of logic onto a vs thread.
All while avoiding the enormously absurd consequences of such logic, e.g., the Basanos only attacking one single universe in Lucifer's "multiverse" leaving the infinitely countless others unharmed. I told you I'd deconstruct every god damn thing you said. And I'm not even done.
There's the whole "Lucifer's statements are all necessarily true" garbage you tried to force earlier. Sure, his word is bond. But he's stated things that proved necessarily false. Furthermore, just because you think he meant one thing, doesn't necessarily mean he meant it the same way you think he did. I challenge you to reinforce your position, because you know as well as I do, that if I post a single scan that shows Lucifer made a statement that proved false, the entire absolutist notion you set forth would crumble like a deck of cards. But that's the burden you fostered onto your own shoulders to help support this laughable pretense that Lucifer's feat was multiversal. SO don't blame me.
Originally posted by operator616Death of the Endless also confirmed that Lucifer/Michael were responsible for creating Yahweh's actuality:
Let's see on panel shall we: Lucifer #26 directly credits Michael and Lucifer for Yahweh's creation (this is confirmed several times, too)http://i.imgur.com/Sv0IZh9.jpg?1
the Vertigo Encyclopedia outright says that they're the ones responsible for his creation:
http://i.imgur.com/lfrDAlz.jpg?1
You can keep denying it all you want, just so that all know that on panel and bio accounts don't agree with you.
Dunno if anyone is still disputing this(stopped following the thread a few pages ago), but that much is definitely fact.
