Originally posted by operator616
No, i based it on your response here:That tells me you do acknowledge that Lucifer being above the endless, multiversal+ beings, does in fact confirm his multiversal power.
Although now, you're still sticking to this lowballing. So im going to repost (with some adjustments) my argument about Lucifer > Endless here, so you can't dispute it, while setting aside Lucifer's confirmed multiversal showing of creating Yahweh's creation, which you ignored based on.....nothing
[B]DEATH
----------------We know that Death can operate beyond the mainstream Vertigo multiverse (even though you don't agree that Lucifer's creation is a multiverse, it's unarguable that this creation of his is beyond Yahweh's multiverse, completely separate), which happened in Lucifer #25, her 2008 bio confirms that she does have a role to play in his cosmos:
http://i.imgur.com/JbkdIPk.jpg?1
Lucifer #75, Silk Man who's now beyond creation, thought that he's beyond Death, Lucifer assures him that he only delayed the inevitable:
http://i.imgur.com/gybfbsz.jpg
Yet we know that she has no claim over Lucifer, even in his weakened state, Lucifer #26:
http://i.imgur.com/epJdnVW.jpg
Dream
----------------
5 issues prior to the issue of Lucifer's meeting with Dream, in Sandman #18, a thousand humans managed to change the whole universe with the power of Dream (From its beginning to the end) in Sandman v2 #18:
http://i.imgur.com/fKDqYQ8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2nIVjD6.jpg
pay attention to this panel:
http://i.imgur.com/g08hjDH.jpg?2
In Morrison's JLA, Doctor Destiny after projecting his dream self to the material world, achieves absolute omnipotence:
http://i.imgur.com/NpmtOIh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ErXsqKb.jpg
In the end it literally took 7 JLA members to project their dream selves, to make it 7 omnipotents (the exact terminology was actually mentioned) to defeat him.
JLA classified #36:
batman says that materioptikon (dreamstone) created multiple realities:
http://i.imgur.com/4yFm2qe.jpg
earlier in the issue it's stated that the Red King created infinite versions of himself (or billion at least), which would mean he created billions of universes given that each version of him is from a different universe:
http://i.imgur.com/YT97H6d.jpg
Sandman #7, Dreamstone is part of Dream's power
http://i.imgur.com/2JAKc1p.jpg
******
Observe, everyone, how Dream compares to Lucifer:
Dream was outright scared of Lucifer in Sandman #23:
http://i.imgur.com/kBZ62dH.jpg?1
When asked whether Lucifer is more powerful than him Dream declares:
http://i.imgur.com/6rtp1fD.jpg?1
"Oh yes, by far"
But, but Lucifer is universal! And considering Dream's power is literally nothing when compared to Lucifer, that would mean Dream is what, Galaxy level (when we've seen a part of his part create countless realities)??? Please, this is getting laughable.
Destiny
-----------------
His book's significance is on a creation-level scale. As shown in Brave and the Bold v3 #4 (in that story it was regarded as being in the possession of "the ultimate power" as i recall), any alterations made to the book (like the challengers of the unknown beings outside of it, and thus causing it to be altered), will unravel reality itself:
http://i.imgur.com/9SiusWE.jpg?1
Confirmed again in Lucifer #52:
http://i.imgur.com/78CTD15.jpg?1
The guy also operates across universeS, as shown in History of DCU:
http://i.imgur.com/rXDy5Gu.jpg?1
We know that Death >> any of the endless.
We know for a fact that Lucifer is the 2nd most powerful being in all creation (along with Michael), as stated in Sandman #22, for instance:
http://i.imgur.com/Mh652WG.jpg?1
Carey seems sure that Lucifer is, he said so in a Letters page from Lucifer #29:
http://i.imgur.com/w6toR4M.jpg?1
Somehow though, the 2nd most powerful being in all creation (which is filled with multiversal and multiversal+ beings), is universal. Makes perfect sense.....doesn't it, ODG?
Im not going to repost the Tim Hunter showings because you saw those as well. A guy who can unknowingly create an entire multiverse without even knowing it, yet, we both know that Vertigo has established Lucifer to be the most powerful being after Yahweh. I]Books of Magic[/I] even has direct references to Lucifer as i showed you, so don't try and make an argument that they're dissociated.
Yeah, you're not going to have me believe Lucifer is universal with just typing "Lucifer is universal", you better have a damn good argument. Even putting aside your lousy "standards" you've gotta admit at least something that is undeniable: Lucifer dwarfs multiversal entities.
Unless you disprove the above facts (which you can't), consider your "Lucifer is universal" argument completely and utterly torn apart. 👆 [/B]
Awesome post operator! I think Destiny/The Word looked pretty good when speaking with both Michael and Lucifer. It takes a lot to get Destiny's attention and meet him as he is not one for being very sociable.
