Chaos King vs Lucifer Morningstar

Originally posted by Cogito
Lucifer tanked Michael's demiurgic energies point blank. The same energies that were repeatedly stated to be sufficient to destroy all creation. And enough of this "Lucifer was created to do that" shit. He was created to be powerful enough to do it, it's not some bullshit rule rule God made up that the Demiurgic energy can't hurt him. If you and Quan want to make that claim, you better back it up with (nonexistent) proof.

He warped those energies into a multiverse, and as Galan said, did so effortlessly. He created, from scratch, and specifically just because he felt like it, concepts such as time and physics. Now, if Marvel's Eternity is time and Infinity is space, and both of those are equal to Oblivion (who is > CK), then Lucifer created equivalents from nothing with a casual wave of his hand.

And CK didn't just destroy 1 universe. He devoured 98.75% of mainstream Marvel MULTIVERSE. This included entire Pantheons throughout creation. Get back to me when Lucifer does something under his own power.

Originally posted by leonidas
^^^i'll not get into that debate again, but suffice to say i disagree with that. 🙂

@zop: so he didn't really absorb the multiverse in a traditional (ie absorbing all the alternates) sense. he basically, over time, absorbed outer dimensions, not even 616, by gaining power to overthrow these random dimensions? which was the most prominent dimension he overthrew before herc returned 'reality' (whatever da phuck dat means....) to normal?

galan's point has never been addressed. who DID ck beat, on paper, who was worth a damn? pretty sure, even if thor caught lucifer off guard, it would mean....less than nothing.

when ck's power is such that he can collapse entire dimensions just by entering them, MAYBE we can compare the 2. as for who has he beaten? well, michael for one.....not too mention he scared the holy crap out of morpheus who was shown to be able to scare the holy crap out of the heads of the pantheons--pretty much all of them, at the same time. you'll say: and? to which i'll re-ask galan's question WHO DID CK BEAT WHO WAS WORTH ANYTHING?

CK was slaughtering SuperGod Herc that RESTORED 98.75% of the MULTIVERSE. Lucifer didn't do jack under his own power worth mentioning. Unless you got scans to disprove this.

@ NemeBro
LOL

Originally posted by zopzop
He started out that way but apparently became much more. It took Lucifer and Michael combined to create a universe. CK destroyed 98.75% of the Marvel MULTIVERSE.

The only way they beat him was by giving him what he always wanted, to be alone again.

As an aspect of Oblivion, probably his most powerful ever depicted on panel, he's not being killed by anything short of a trans-multiversal power. SuperGod Herc, that RESTORED 98.75% of the multiverse, couldn't do it. Lucifer isn't doing anything but dying painfully.

Instead of acting like a 10 year old, prove me wrong. CK was/is a confirmed multiversal power.

Originally posted by zopzop
And what happened to the void when he used his brother's power to do it?

Originally posted by zopzop
Lucifer dies.

Originally posted by zopzop
He started out that way but apparently became much more. It took Lucifer and Michael combined to create a universe. CK destroyed 98.75% of the Marvel MULTIVERSE.

The only way they beat him was by giving him what he always wanted, to be alone again.

As an aspect of Oblivion, probably his most powerful ever depicted on panel, he's not being killed by anything short of a trans-multiversal power. SuperGod Herc, that RESTORED 98.75% of the multiverse, couldn't do it. Lucifer isn't doing anything but dying painfully.

Instead of acting like a 10 year old, prove me wrong. CK was/is a confirmed multiversal power.

That's quite a flowery way of saying that they got rid of him by trapping him in a separate universe. Lol.

Lol, now highballing Oblivion when only some time back you were lowballing the sh1t out of him on another thread. Flip-flop, just like I said. But anyways, let's put the shoe on the other foot and ask you this; what are the most powerful beings whom Ck has beaten apart from a starved Galactus and an amped Elder God? Because Lucifer is the same being who goes about intimidating and scaring the bejeezus out of beings like the Endless, all of whom are definite multiversal Abstracts.

Originally posted by operator616
^ Fenris is no abstract. Come on. Sure, he was stated to be an embodiment of destruction, but his portrayal was certainly not abstract-level.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Starlin's Synnar comes close. 😖hifty:

Originally posted by NemeBro

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/54328/1034880-beyonder.gif

Originally posted by leonidas
(a)

and (b) didn't thor hurt ck with a lightning bolt.....? and didn't lucifer, simply by arriving, destroy the mansions of silence? these were a variety of different dimensions iirc. they couldn't even support his presence--he destroyed them just by being there.....

There was even a lot of talk about it heaven, with all the angels being shocked at this act of genocide of the billions of souls that resided there(souls have been mentioned to be indestructible in that series, mind you) and how it was supposedly low even for Lucifer and all that jaz.

Originally posted by zopzop

But he DID destroy 98.75% of the multiverse.

It wasn't just 616 and it's adjacent pocket dimensions like Asgard or the various hells.

So if you're located in 616 and you can touch/affect a Pantheon realm,
you are literally exercising power Far beyond the 616 universe.

--------------------------------------------

Here, Odin clearly differentiates the Universe which contains Earth-616,
with the Pocket-Universe that contains Asgard. (known as "Asgard Space" or the "Sea of Space"😉

[img=http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17502915_AS1.jpg]

--------------------------------------------

Asgard is in a "Distant" Pocket-Universe, it is ... another "Plane of Reality"

[img=http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17502918_Asgard_Outside_616_Ham.jpg]

--------------------------------------------

But, Asgard isn't just outside 616, it is "Far beyond" 616's space-time:

[img=http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17502916_Asgard_FAR_beyond_616.jpg]

--------------------------------------------

So how far, how distant from 616 is the Pocket reality containing Asgard?

"Far beyond!" ... o.k. ... But what does that mean?

That means there's an Infinite void between Asgard and Earth-616:

[img=http://s3d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17502919_Asgard1.jpg]

Originally posted by zopzop
Yeah, he warped his BROTHER'S power to create a universe. Something he was meant to do as God's Will. This thread isn't Lucifer AND Michael (he'd beat both of them btw) vs CK. This is LUCIFER vs CK. Lucifer is out of his league here.

And CK didn't just destroy 1 universe. He devoured 98.75% of mainstream Marvel MULTIVERSE. This included entire Pantheons throughout creation. Get back to me when Lucifer does something under his own power.

But he DID destroy 98.75% of the multiverse. This was confirmed later by Oblivion himself. It wasn't just 616 and it's adjacent pocket dimensions like Asgard or the various hells.

CK was slaughtering SuperGod Herc that RESTORED 98.75% of the MULTIVERSE. Lucifer didn't do jack under his own power worth mentioning. Unless you got scans to disprove this.

@ NemeBro
LOL

he'd beat them BOTH! lol sometimes you do go a bit off the deep end. you keep saying he warped michael's power for his feat, but lucifer actually defeated michael once in battle. what's that tell you? then the scope of the 'multiverses' being discussed here are VASTLY different. the vertigo 'creation' is a FULL-ON Multiverse--i mean complete with infinite alternate versions of the earth dimension AND all other dimensions minus a couple (i assume) rare exceptions. ck didn't even absorb all of the 616-related multiverse. it is not at all illogical to assume that the lucifer creation is actually INFINITELY larger than the little mutliverse ck absorbed, just as the marvel Multiverse, complete with alternate earth dimensions and all it corollaries, would likewise be infinitely larger.

he gathered power slowly, beat some minor, b-list cosmics, took over their pocket realms and grew more powerful still. i'd wager at the end, if you really consider what the 616 'creation' contains/is associated with, that ck was STILL weaker than eternity/oblivion/infinity/death. if you don't think so, prove it. 🙂

Originally posted by leonidas

ck didn't even absorb all of the 616-related multiverse.

... over 98% of this trans-infinity was absorbed ... that's pretty uber.

Originally posted by leonidas

i'd wager at the end,

that ck was STILL weaker than eternity/oblivion/infinity/death.

if you don't think so, prove it.

According to Eternity itself ... CK/Oblivion and Eternity are equals. ... Oblivion = CK

The "darkness before existence" (is the pre-big bang void where the omniverse was born)
Eternity says CK is the void against which he is defined. (two sides of the same coin)

"I fight him, I fight myself"

Originally posted by zopzop
Yeah, he warped his BROTHER'S power to create a universe. Something he was meant to do as God's Will. This thread isn't Lucifer AND Michael (he'd beat both of them btw) vs CK. This is LUCIFER vs CK. Lucifer is out of his league here.

You keep repeating the same broken tune. So what if God created him with the purpose of creating the mutliverse? He has the power to do so, and has done so, and that's all that matters. Who the phuck cares if he was "meant to do it"

Originally posted by zopzop
And CK didn't just destroy 1 universe. He devoured 98.75% of mainstream Marvel MULTIVERSE. This included entire Pantheons throughout creation. Get back to me when Lucifer does something under his own power.

But he DID destroy 98.75% of the multiverse. This was confirmed later by Oblivion himself. It wasn't just 616 and it's adjacent pocket dimensions like Asgard or the various hells.

CK was slaughtering SuperGod Herc that RESTORED 98.75% of the MULTIVERSE. Lucifer didn't do jack under his own power worth mentioning. Unless you got scans to disprove this.

Who gives a shit about pantheons and 98.75% of the multiverse? Lucifer was more powerful than all of Heaven's infinite forces combined (barring Michael), as was repeatedly stated. Lucifer was more powerful than the Endless, among the highest abstracts in the DCU, as was repeatedly stated. Lucifer took raw energy and created 100% of a multiverse, including time and physics from scratch, with zero effort. Chaos Kings efforts took time, because he isn't powerful enough to do what he did instantly. Lucifer merely waves a hand.

Originally posted by Mr Master

According to Eternity itself ... CK/Oblivion and Eternity are equals. ... Oblivion = CK

The "darkness before existence" (is the pre-big bang void where the omniverse was born)
Eternity says CK is the void against which he is defined. (two sides of the same coin)

"I fight him, I fight myself"

Retconned in Thor annual.
We know what he was supposed to represent in Chaos War but the statement from Oblivion himself begs to differ.

Personally, I prefer what Oblivion stated about himself over what Eternity said.
CK represents an aspect of Oblivion who was, and is still locked in the continuum.

Originally posted by Epicurus
I am talking about the quality of writing for a character, jackass. Not power levels.

I think you need to calm down and accept that Lucy can't win every thread young man.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The story related to the Multiverse, the one and only prime Multiverse.

... over 98% of this trans-infinity was absorbed ... that's pretty uber.

Well, don't bet too much good friend:

According to Eternity itself ... CK/Oblivion and Eternity are equals. ... Oblivion = CK

The "darkness before existence" (is the pre-big bang void where the omniverse was born)
Eternity says CK is the void against which he is defined. (two sides of the same coin)

"I fight him, I fight myself"

i agree--the 616 multiverse. 👆

we know he absorbed 98% of it. we know eternity=ck (or was approximately equal, based on the dialogue.) regardless, ck was NOT definitively greater than eternity, even after absorbing everything he did. if he was, i'd love proof of it. that fact alone should put ck's relative power level into perspective and essentially end this thread.....unless someone wants to show me proof somehow that it was the mythical "multi-eternity" who was speaking, and about whom the story revolved....?

Since when is 616 eternity powerful enough to absorb a multiverse?
And beat the utter shit of someone who can create one?

CK was above multiversal power

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Since when is 616 eternity powerful enough to absorb a multiverse?
And beat the utter shit of someone who can create one?

CK was above multiversal power

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
CK was above multiversal power

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Since when is 616 eternity powerful enough to absorb a multiverse?
And beat the utter shit of someone who can create one?

CK was above multiversal power

lol

i saw a scan that said ck=eternity (or it was enough to enough that from). somehow though ck could absorb a multiverse. that still didn't put him definitively above eternity. unless you want to clain it was the magical multi-eternity who was speaking....? if so, i'd love to see the proof. barring that, prove to me, or anyone, that ck was definitively above eternity. i'll wait patiently.

Originally posted by Galan007
😂

indeed. 👆