Originally posted by Tar-Antado
To me this is like saying if Surfer can turn Thor into a frog if he wanted to. Pure hypothetical with no practical.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus Loki and Thor fighting side by side? I have a hard time picturing the Annihilators stopping them. .
This. Plus everyone is forgetting Sersi has transmuted people on the level of at least some of the Annihilators. If she handles even ONE OF THEM by transmuting them, she can then help whoever else needs help on a fight. Also Hercules is being underrated here. Yeah he can't fly, but that didn't help the sentry against him. And how can he or Area be BFR'ed when their team mates can help bring them back?
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
This. Plus everyone is forgetting Sersi has transmuted people on the level of at least some of the Annihilators. If she handles even ONE OF THEM by transmuting them, she can then help whoever else needs help on a fight. Also Hercules is being underrated here. Yeah he can't fly, but that didn't help the sentry against him. And how can he or Area be BFR'ed when their team mates can help bring them back?
How specifically does Loki and Thor on a team make them more powerful?
This isn't a comic fight, it's a forum fight. Herc's lacking of flight can and would hurt him. He could be easily ignored or BFR'd, essentially making them a man down. Their teammates will be fighting for their lives. Think they have time to go rescue their weak links while getting double-teamed by equal or superior opponents?
Ares remains the weakest link here. Herc might be the 2nd. Unless you can show that Sersi just mass transmutes a team with a few matter transmuters, gods lose.
I won't deny that Ares is the weakest guy here, but Loki, Thor, silver Surfer and Sersi are the most powerful, and 3 of the 4 are on one team Loki cam amp people to hundreds of times thier power. He can give Herc flight. He's turned thor into a frog (if he can do that to Thor, he can do it to bill). Sersi can drop gladiator in 5 seconds by making some radiation around him, or like I said transmute at least one of the team members. Hell Loki can turn clouds into dragons.... Their teams options are nearly unlimited. Loki can be a lot like dr strange... It's a question of what can't he do. I vaguely remember him trapping the hulk, silver surfer and some other heroes in forcefields ... Though I can't remember the circumstances... I'll need to look through some of my comics when I get home.
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I won't deny that Ares is the weakest guy here, but Loki, Thor, silver Surfer and Sersi are the most powerful, and 3 of the 4 are on one team Loki cam amp people to hundreds of times thier power. He can give Herc flight. He's turned thor into a frog (if he can do that to Thor, he can do it to bill). Sersi can drop gladiator in 5 seconds by making some radiation around him, or like I said transmute at least one of the team members. Hell Loki can turn clouds into dragons.... Their teams options are nearly unlimited. Loki can be a lot like dr strange... It's a question of what can't he do. I vaguely remember him trapping the hulk, silver surfer and some other heroes in forcefields ... Though I can't remember the circumstances... I'll need to look through some of my comics when I get home.
Surfer, Bill, Thor, Quasar, and others all have more high showings than Loki. And he's not winning a straight-up fight with almost anyone on the team. He'd have to out-plan, and this is not a prep fight. Because I think you said Loki could take any two on their team, which is a gross overestimation of him. He loses to Thor all the time, who has at least 1-2 equals in this fight.
As mentioned, the Annihilators have transmuters too, and skilled ones. I don't deny there's advantageous matchups here and there for the gods, but you're assuming they would dictate the matchups. With the undoubtedly slower team, and one non-flyer, they would not.
That dragon feat was from the 70's, iirc, and was a pretty lame feat. Did you read that off a bio...I remember reading that off a bio.
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
He's turned thor into a frog (if he can do that to Thor, he can do it to bill).
Actually, Loki tapped into the power of the Twilight Sword to transform Thor so it's not valid evidence for him transmuting Thor.
That being said, Loki has owned Bill and the rest of the Thor Corps easily. Outside of his fights with Thor (Which is close but he's on the losing side of), he has a great track record, better than most villains. His worst showing that I can think of is his death at the hands of the Void, which he planned and allowed (It was revealed he could have prevented it).
Originally posted by Digi
Surfer, Bill, Thor, Quasar, and others all have more high showings than Loki. And he's not winning a straight-up fight with almost anyone on the team. He'd have to out-plan, and this is not a prep fight. Because I think you said Loki could take any two on their team, which is a gross overestimation of him. He loses to Thor all the time, who has at least 1-2 equals in this fight.
Seriously underestimating Loki there. His easily the favorite over either Bill or Quasar in a fight. I'd give him the nods over Surfer too personally.
Even in his battles against Thor, his had some good showings such as taking the advantage or even winning.
Originally posted by Digi
That dragon feat was from the 70's, iirc, and was a pretty lame feat. Did you read that off a bio...I remember reading that off a bio.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Sorcery/LokiTransmutation07JIM92.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Sorcery/LokiTransmutation14401.jpg
So what happens if Loki turns bill into a frog, while Thor occupies the Silver Surfer? Then Sersi turns Ronan into a tree? Or Loki captures the entire team in some forcefields and then let's one out at a time for the team to beat them down? Yeah I know I'm picking and choosing match ups, and even making some assumptions, but these are nonetheless all still viable scenarios. And while ares is a weak link, so is Ronan IMO compared to the heavy hitters on the gods team. And I don't know why you're downplaying Loki... He's fought skyfathers before and performed pretty darn good. And I didn't read that in a bio... Not that it should even matter if I did, where I read or saw it doesn't matter to the fact that it happened.
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I vaguely remember him trapping the hulk, silver surfer and some other heroes in forcefields ... Though I can't remember the circumstances... I'll need to look through some of my comics when I get home.
Don't think I've ever seen this.
Although there was a one shot written by PAD where Loki had a nice showing of power. IIRC, a small portion of his might empowered a mortal to the point he was doing Loki's reality warping shtick (Turning into a mountain, shaping a castle out of thin air and so on) and created a stand-in Midgard Serpent/Hela. The Avenger line up wasn't impressive but Hulk was on it IIRC and he barely beat one of the monsters even with armor/weapons.
The only one on the Annihilators who CAN'T manipulate matter is Gladiator.
Surfer has some retarded feats under the belt that would make Sersi blush of envy.
Also, what happens if any member of the team enguage Sersi h2h?
Loki is a wildcard, or he would be, if that had mattered. The enormous lacks of versatility of some members of the "Gods" team seal the team.
Originally posted by abhilegend
There goes the spamming blast attack.Sorry, can't say anything without reading the comic or scans.
He's already more powerful than gladiator, what's new?
He was injured and if it wasn't stated that he was full power than its automatically assumed that he was weakened. Hitting galactus hard means what exactly? Thor can hit hard while injured?
That's just an excuse. His entire history is canon and one ambiguous showing (according to me as I haven't seen it 😛) doesn't makes surfer somehow better against energy draining than he was in past.
Thor has resisted better telepaths than surfer though.
Sif is a total whore then.
You talking about this
Well lets see how does surfer do against energy draining in general
Against Motherboard
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-15.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-16.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-17.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-18.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-19.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-20.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3024-21.jpgAgainst stranger
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3027-12.jpg
Against demonstar
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3039-12.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3039-13.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3039-14.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3039-15.jpgDynamo city
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3040-10.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3040-11.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3040-12.jpgCaptain reptyl
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3012-01.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3012-02-03.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3012-06.jpgSome space pirates
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/05.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/06.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/07.jpgDampyre
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/StarMasters3017.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/StarMasters3019.jpgNeed more? These are just for starters.
in general he does very well. so yeah, i'll need more.
those first scans show he was cut up. 😐 how you try to say he was being drained i have no idea. the whole scene is strange and he still retained more than enough power to win in the end.
stranger literally cut him off from his source of power and stranger is perhaps skyfather level.
did you read the demonstar scans? ss could have stopped him had he chosen to do so--but elected to be defeated rather than kill him. he easily stopped the first drain attempt.
as for the others--reptyl drained him after he was beaten. tyrant did the same thing to him. both kept him weak. dynamo city and dampyre? meh, low showings, but they mean little to me when the pre-iminent drainer in comics--quasar--can't do anything to a po'd ss, and when a ss who is also fighting for the lives of every hero in the world gives up HALF his power but STILL goes equally against someone like murrungo-mu.
no way in hell thor drains ss for a win. absorbing blasts is one thing. pulling a presence on him? no chance that would ever happen.
@rage--that's a good question. i'll have a look back and see if i can find it.
Originally posted by Digi
How specifically does Loki and Thor on a team make them more powerful?This isn't a comic fight, it's a forum fight. Herc's lacking of flight can and would hurt him. He could be easily ignored or BFR'd, essentially making them a man down. Their teammates will be fighting for their lives. Think they have time to go rescue their weak links while getting double-teamed by equal or superior opponents?
Ares remains the weakest link here. Herc might be the 2nd. Unless you can show that Sersi just mass transmutes a team with a few matter transmuters, gods lose.
👆
Originally posted by abhilegendThor absorbing every blast if Surfer was zipping around spamming blasts would be impressive, no doubt about that
There goes the spamming blast attack.Sorry, can't say anything without reading the comic or scans.
He's already more powerful than gladiator, what's new?
He was injured and if it wasn't stated that he was full power than its automatically assumed that he was weakened. Hitting galactus hard means what exactly? Thor can hit hard while injured?
That's just an excuse. His entire history is canon and one ambiguous showing (according to me as I haven't seen it 😛) doesn't makes surfer somehow better against energy draining than he was in past.
Thor has resisted better telepaths than surfer though.
Sif is a total whore then.
Against stranger
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/SilverSurferv3027-12.jpg
That would make him like 50 times more powerful at least... funny enough
He was injured without it showing him being hindered. And him hitting Galactus that hard was like his greatest feat in decades...
His entire history is canon, but throughout that he's been getting vastly better at using his powers, and also got a powerup since the last time he was drained. Plus most of the draining has been tech based, and I have hard time seeing Thor just reaching out and draining Surfer, especially when it's been shown to take time for Thor, and Surfer would have to be standing still for a couple seconds...
Like who?
She is
Here's what happened when Stranger tried that again:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/SurferandStranger.jpg
I know you don't like Surfer, but arguing that Thor drains him in a CIS on forum fight, because I said they stalemate is laughable to say the least
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
I have hard time seeing Thor just reaching out and draining Surfer, especially when it's been shown to take time for Thor, and Surfer would have to be standing still for a couple seconds...
Thor's energy absorption depends on the situation but it has been shown to work instantaneously, even in battle.
While I think Thor could potentially drain Surfer (Mjolnir could draw in and absorb Surfer's cosmic bolts IIRC and I'd personally take Mjolnir over Surfer in that pissing contest any day) the likely hood is so unlikely at this point, it's not worth mentioning unless there are extenuating circumstances.
