Originally posted by dadudemon
Jeremiah 8:8"How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain."
Here's a newer translation of that Middle English:
"How can you say, 'We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,' when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?"
Basically, even the bible admits that it is imperfect and full of lies because of what various "scribes" have done to the word over the years. Sometimes, it is written down corrupted from the beginning. Sometimes, it takes years. Sometimes, it is lost. The bible is not the end all be all and it is very imperfect [omitted part of your post]
Jeremiah 8:8 does not support your claim that the Bible is not perfect (i.e. the infallible Word of the living God).
If Jeremiah 8:8 were a proof text to support your premise then the entire Jewish nation of Israel, all of the Old Testament prophets, all of the prophecies, the Lord Jesus Christ, His apostles, and all of His disciples would not have referred to it, quoted it, and lived their lives according to it (i.e. the Law of Moses and other Scriptures that constitute the canon of the Bible)
Besides there are numerous Scriptures in the New Testament that refute your assertion:
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
The Lord Jesus Christ affirms the reliability of Scripture so much so that He states,
Matthew 5:18
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
The Word of God is so unshakeably sure tha the psalmist writes,
Psalm 119:89
89 Forever, O Lord,
Your Word is settled in Heaven.
Agur the son of Jakeh writes,
Proverbs 30:5
Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
The apostle Peter was so confident in the Word of God i.e. the Scriptures and spoken Word that he wrote,
1 Peter 1:25
But the Word of the LORD endures forever.” Now this is the Word which by the gospel was preached to you.
1 Peter 2:2
2 as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word , that you may grow thereby,
2 Timothy 2:15
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
The Lord Jesus was very well versed in the Scriptures because He knew that they testified of Him, revealed Who He was, and spoke about Him prophetically.
Speaking to the chief priests and elders of the people the Lord Jesus Christ asked,
Matthew 21:42
Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures : ‘The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. This was the LORD’s doing, And it is marvelous in our eyes’?
Speaking to the Sadducees the Lord Jesus asked,
Mark 12:24
Jesus answered and said to them, “Are you not therefore mistaken, because you do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God?
The Lord trusted the Scriptures enough to reprove the Sadducees for not knowing it. If the Scriptures were not perfect (i.e. infallibly reliable as the Word of God) then it would not have mattered whether the Sadducees knew them or not. It would have been irrelevant because the Scriptures could not be trusted anyway.
After the Lord Jesus rose from the dead, He joined two (I believe they were disciples) as they walked on the road toward a village called Emmaus. The disciples did not recognize the Lord Jesus because their eyes were restrained. The Scriptures report,
Luke 24:27
And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.
The Lord Jesus used the Scriptures to help His disciples understand that the Messiah had to suffer, be beaten, mocked, scourged, crucified, die, be buried, and raised on the third day. The Lord Jesus started at Moses (i.e. the first five books of the Bible which is called the Torah or Law of Moses) and then taught them from all of the Scriptures written by the prophets. In doing so, the Lord confirmed the Scriptures are reliable, accurate, given by inspiration of God, trustworthy, and sound.
Luke 24:44-46
44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me. ” 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures. 46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day,
Speaking to His Father, the Lord Jesus stated,
John 17:17
17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your Word is Truth .
Last but not least the Bible instructs us to correctly interpret the Word of God. The Word of God is written in such a way that you must gather a number of Scriptures on a given subject in order to base your conclusion not just one verse. Failure to do so leads to wrongly dividing the Word of Truth, which is what I believe that you have done with Jeremiah 8:8.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Jeremiah 8:8 does not support your claim that the Bible is not perfect (i.e. the infallible Word of the living God).If Jeremiah 8:8 were a proof text to support your premise then the entire Jewish nation of Israel, all of the Old Testament prophets, all of the prophecies, the Lord Jesus Christ, His apostles, and all of His disciples would not have referred to it, quoted it, and lived their lives according to it (i.e. the Law of Moses and other Scriptures that constitute the canon of the Bible)
Actually, it directly supports that the bible is fallacious as the scribes themselves are clearly referenced as having an agenda, ignorant, or are deliberately being bad with the word.
The "word" you profess to be so inerrant and perfect says it is not by referencing the scribes responsible for the "word".
Sorry, JIA, but you cannot have your cake and eat it, too. The bible is full of problems. Historical, scientific, theologically, etc. Sure, sometimes, jerks try twist the meanings and words (sometimes, knowingly, which is obviously evil) to make contradictions, but other times...yeah...there are clear problems and contradictions.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I'm not sure I follow what you mean by direct lineage.
Mormons and Catholics can trace their priesthood all the way back to Christ.
As far as I am aware, we are the only two types of churches that can do this.
I know who my father was ordained by, I know who ordained that person. I know who ordained that person. I know who ordained that person. I know who ordained that person. And I know Jesus Christ Ordained that person.
So we can trace our priesthood lineage all the way back to Christ. Mormons just think that the Catholic Church apostatized and lost the priesthood power.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Actually, it directly supports that the bible is fallacious as the scribes themselves are clearly referenced as having an agenda, ignorant, or are deliberately being bad with the word.The "word" you profess to be so inerrant and perfect says it is not by referencing the scribes responsible for the "word".
Sorry, JIA, but you cannot have your cake and eat it, too. The bible is full of problems. Historical, scientific, theologically, etc. Sure, sometimes, jerks try twist the meanings and words (sometimes, knowingly, which is obviously evil) to make contradictions, but other times...yeah...there are clear problems and contradictions.
Mormons and Catholics can trace their priesthood all the way back to Christ.
As far as I am aware, we are the only two types of churches that can do this.
I know who my father was ordained by, I know who ordained that person. I know who ordained that person. I know who ordained that person. I know who ordained that person. And I know Jesus Christ Ordained that person.
So we can trace our priesthood lineage all the way back to Christ. Mormons just think that the Catholic Church apostatized and lost the priesthood power.
I will address the issue of Bible infallibility but first I want to touch on the issue of priests in Mormonism.
Priest? What is the purpose of Mormons being priests? (I have much to say but I need to lay the foundation first).
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I will address the issue of Bible infallibility but first I want to touch on the issue of priests in Mormonism.Priest? What is the purpose of Mormons being priests? (I have much to say but I need to lay the foundation first).
Let me clarify your foundation, first. Why is it important to know what the purpose of "priests" in CoJCoLDS is? Can you not know that from reading the bible?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But the church is Jesus, according to the bible. That means if you are not a member of the true Church (not just believe), then you cannot go to heaven.
The church is not Jesus literally but metaphorically, in a spiritual sense.
We are referred to as the body of Christ to illustrate how we are to work together in accomplishing His will on earth (i.e. proclaiming the gospel, spreading His love, growing spiritually, walking in love etc.) as His hands, eyes, feet, and mouthpiece.
However, one's salvation is not based on church membership or belonging to any particular group.
Salvation is based on one's personal relationship with the Savior Jesus Christ.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The church is not Jesus literally but metaphorically, in a spiritual sense.We are referred to as the body of Christ to illustrate how we are to work together in accomplishing His will on earth (i.e. proclaiming the gospel, spreading His love, growing spiritually, walking in love etc.) as His hands, eyes, feet, and mouthpiece.
However, one's salvation is not based on church membership or belonging to any particular group.
Salvation is based on one's personal relationship with the Savior Jesus Christ.
But you cannot have a relationship with Jesus unless you are a member of his body, and that is the church.
Based on Christian mythology.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Let me clarify your foundation, first. Why is it important to know what the purpose of "priests" in CoJCoLDS is? Can you not know that from reading the bible?
It is important for me to know what the purpose of priests in Mormonism is because I don't believe they are necessary.
As touching me knowing from reading the Bible, according to you the Bible is fallible, so how can I know anything from reading it?
Besides, the Bible's purpose for the Aaronic-Levitical, Old Covenant/Testament priesthood had a definite purpose that I do not believe it has anymore.
So, can you as a Mormon inform me what the purpose is for priests in your religion?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But you cannot have a relationship with Jesus unless you are a member of his body, and that is the church.Based on Christian mythology.
My relationship with Jesus Christ is not because I am a member of His body, it is because I believe on Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord, as my Redeemer and God.
My relationship with Jesus Christ began with my confession of faith that Jesus Christ is Lord (my Lord), and that I believe that God has raised Him from the dead.
I repented from my sins and turned towards Jesus Christ as my Savior and Lord. When I did this by faith the Holy Spirit baptized me into the body of Christ, and I became a (spiritual) member of Christ's body i.e. the church.
So a person does not become a member of the body of Christ and then have a relationship with Christ, a person has a relationship with Christ first--and then becomes a member of the body of Christ.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
My relationship with Jesus Christ is not because I am a member of His body, it is because I believe on Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord, as my Redeemer and God.My relationship with Jesus Christ began with my confession of faith that Jesus Christ is Lord (my Lord), and that I believe that God has raised Him from the dead.
I repented from my sins and turned towards Jesus Christ as my Savior and Lord. When I did this by faith the Holy Spirit baptized me into the body of Christ, and I became a (spiritual) member of Christ's body i.e. the church.
So a person does not become a member of the body of Christ and then have a relationship with Christ, a person has a relationship with Christ first--and then becomes a member of the body of Christ.
Both you and I have something in common. We are both not Christians. 😛
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Both you and I have something in common. We are both not Christians. 😛
You've missed something.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
My relationship with Jesus Christ is not because I am a member of His body, it is because I believe on Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord, as my Redeemer and God.My relationship with Jesus Christ began with my confession of faith that Jesus Christ is Lord (my Lord), and that I believe that God has raised Him from the dead.
I repented from my sins and turned towards Jesus Christ as my Savior and Lord. When I did this by faith the Holy Spirit baptized me into the body of Christ, and I became a (spiritual) member of Christ's body i.e. the church.
So a person does not become a member of the body of Christ and then have a relationship with Christ, a person has a relationship with Christ first--and then becomes a member of the body of Christ.
I am a Christian.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You've missed something.I am a Christian.
No you are not.
You are like the coffee house Buddhist who when asked what school of Buddhism they follow, say "I just try to live a good life".
You are a coffee house Christian. You don't belong to any church, but you just try to live a good life. 😄
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No you are not.You are like the coffee house Buddhist who when asked what school of Buddhism they follow, say "I just try to live a good life".
You are a coffee house Christian. You don't belong to any church, but you just try to live a good life. 😄
There is only one church (i.e. one spiritual organism of those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ).
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
That's not the issue.The issue is whether I am a Christian or not, and based on what I've previously told you I am.
You didn't ask me whether I attend church though which I do.
Without the lord's supper, you cannot be in the body of Jesus.
Christianity can be so... distasteful.