Thanos runs the gauntlet

Started by quanchi11212 pages

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
This is a good theory, but it's still only a theory. Nothing on the page explicitly contradicts the assumption that he simply endured the mulitiverse-level blast.

In fact, the words "controlled detonation" were only used once, by Michael. The expression refers to a method to limit the damage done by an explosive, including by simply isolating it from anything that could get hurt. Since Michael was killed in the void outside creation, it was literally a controlled detonation. That does not imply that the blast was lessened, nor that Lucifer protected himself by using the energy.

In fact, there is some evidence to suggest otherwise. The only other time something like that happens is when Elaine Belloc repeats the feat at Yggdrasil. Elaine has to draw the power into herself, even explicitly use it to protect herself. (Lucifer: "The power is pouring into you. And you're too small. It needs to well up from inside you. Then you'd have some chance of surviving it."😉 SHe manages to just barely do it, and thus the explosion is prevented.

Compare that to when Lucifer did it. There was a massive, immediate explosion right in his face. He did not appear to take any power into himself, he simply set it loose. The difference is clear.

But like I said, whether he has multiverse-level durability or multiverse-level energy manipulation, the feat still puts him way, way, way out of Thanos' league.

Oh maybe since we saw Elaine Belloc fail to just tank it. Lucifer like Michael and Elaine have the goods to reshape reality. It's what they all have the ability to do.

Elaine unlike Michael learned on the fly through Lucifer's help since he knows exactly how to do so. It isn't a durability deat it's a manipulation of the power being unleashed which is designed to create sort of thing. Like I said. My memory is sharp.

You apparently rereading it multiple times means I understood it on one fell swoop.

The feat isn't indicative of what he's capable of taking or what it takes to hurt him in battle. It's horrendous debating to assume every character who posed a threat had superior power than the blast except the blast was controlled by him through one sided prep.

Lucifer knew exactly what was going to happen and when. he didn't just react instinctively he planned on doing so.

She eventually manipulates the energy despite it almost overwhelming her.

I will now show you the same exact thing done by Thanos and watch you clearly distance yourself from the same logic exposing your hypocrisy and further demonstrating your ineptitude in debating in said manner.

Now for one thing Thanos doesn't have the luxury of having intimate knowledge of Michael as in Lucifer's case the power to create rests with his own brother. Thanos has to theorize and use his best judgment since he wasn't created by the supreme being with infinite will and doesn't have the luxury of being Michael's brother. Thanos still masters said supreme power. This doesn't mean he can't be hurt by less. The same can be said of Lucifer. If you actually understand what he did, the prep he had, and the knowledge of Michael who just happened to be his own brother then it's no surprise that he accomplished this.

That doesn't excuse anyone who thinks he can tank anything other than multiversal level power like a fanboy.

In the near future I am so confident about this I would actually see you in a battlezone donning the Thanos suit one final time against Lucifer. Straight up. When I have an opinion it isn't just to shock the masses it's because I believe it and am more than willing to prove it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Elaine unlike Michael learned on the fly through Lucifer's help since he knows exactly how to do so.

This isn't the most important thing to the issue, but since you made this claim, I do want to point out that Lucifer actually doesn't know exactly how to what Elaine does.
Elaine (trying to survive the power): "How--How do I--?"
Lucifer: "I have no idea. You're the demiurge. Perhaps it comes down to instinct."

You apparently rereading it multiple times means I understood it on one fell swoop.

I've read it multiple times because I like the writing.

The feat isn't indicative of what he's capable of taking or what it takes to hurt him in battle. It's horrendous debating to assume every character who posed a threat had superior power than the blast except the blast was controlled by him through one sided prep.

A) No character with less power than Michael EVER posed a threat to Lucifer in a straight fight. The only time he was ever in physical danger was against powerful opponents with massive one-sided prep spanning years, and against Michael. So, yes, its safe to say you need multiverse-level power to fight in that league.

B) Lucifer didn't do any prep. Show me in the comic where he prepped or mentioned doing so, if you think I'm wrong. Show me where he mentions controlling the blast, if you think I'm wrong.

I will now show you the same exact thing done by Thanos

I love that Thanos feat. It's a great demonstration of his willpower. Of course, the power instantly destroys his body, as he admits. I agree that this is similar to the Elaine feat. (Btw, even when Elaine's body is nearly destroyed and the power surrounds her, Lucifer's body has sustained no further damage)

The problem, Quan, is that the Elaine feat isn't similar to the Lucifer feat, for reasons that are right there on the page. Elaine took the power as her own. Lucifer did not. Lucifer had the full explosion go off in his face. Elaine did not. Thanos' feat has nothing to do with Lucifer's feat except that you assume they are connected by your unproven theory.

Look, I don't want to keep going in circles on this: the fact is that I like your theory. I had it myself maybe 5 years ago. The fact is, there's just no evidence for it. Lucifer's fullpower durability is never scratched and his "fire" operates on at least a universal-level by feats. Thus, the idea that he could tank something like that not unreasonable, and is the only thing we can actually show to happen. Everything else is hypothetical. Period.

I'm not sure what a battlezone is.

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
This isn't the most important thing to the issue, but since you made this claim, I do want to point out that Lucifer actually doesn't know exactly how to what Elaine does.
Elaine (trying to survive the power): "How--How do I--?"
Lucifer: "I have no idea. You're the demiurge. Perhaps it comes down to instinct."
That's prior to him tutoring her. We also know Lucifer did so once. He already created a universe. I mean come on.


I've read it multiple times because I like the writing.

A) No character with less power than Michael EVER posed a threat to Lucifer in a straight fight. The only time he was ever in physical danger was against powerful opponents with massive one-sided prep spanning years, and against Michael. So, yes, its safe to say you need multiverse-level power to fight in that league. [/B]

Amenadiel, Fenris, The japanese gods, etc. I mean think about it sandoplphon posed a problem to Michael and he was leaps and bounds greater than the entire host including Lucifer.


B) Lucifer didn't do any prep. Show me in the comic where he prepped or mentioned doing so, if you think I'm wrong. Show me where he mentions controlling the blast, if you think I'm wrong.
[/B]
Lucifer had a specific plan for using these energies to create his own universe. This just didn't occur before his eyes. He took Michael to a location of his choosing to control the blast. That's called prep.

I love that Thanos feat. It's a great demonstration of his willpower. Of course, the power instantly destroys his body, as he admits. I agree that this is similar to the Elaine feat. (Btw, even when Elaine's body is nearly destroyed and the power surrounds her, Lucifer's body has sustained no further damage) [/B]

The difference is Thanos mastered supreme power not just the power to create a universe. Elaine masted the said power with no experience whatsoever. Thanos wasn't born into the right line to do so he did so by his own choices throughout his lifetime. He didn't just have the power inside of him as is the case with the other two.

Lucifer controlled the said energies. Just like Elaine. Just like Thanos(whose is better since it's supreme power). Lucifer has been hurt and Michael has been beaten by far less. Michael at full strength can defeat Lucifer with a mere gesture.


The problem, Quan, is that the Elaine feat isn't similar to the Lucifer feat, for reasons that are right there on the page. Elaine took the power as her own. Lucifer did not. Lucifer had the full explosion go off in his face. Elaine did not. Thanos' feat has nothing to do with Lucifer's feat except that you assume they are connected by your unproven theory. [/B]
Lucifer controlled the detonation at a location of his own choosing. Elaine had to make due on her own. Lucifer helped her. He had the knowledge to do so. Thanos didn't have any prep ether he just reacted as best he could and was correct that he could survive such a feat. Thanos mastered supreme power.

Michael is by far more powerful than Lucifer and yet Sandolphon's spear defeated him. Is that spear multiversal ?


Look, I don't want to keep going in circles on this: the fact is that I like your theory. I had it myself maybe 5 years ago. The fact is, there's just no evidence for it. Lucifer's fullpower durability is never scratched and his "fire" operates on at least a universal-level by feats. Thus, the idea that he could tank something like that not unreasonable, and is the only thing we can actually show to happen. Everything else is hypothetical. Period.

I'm not sure what a battlezone is. [/B]

You don't ignore the comics and debate based on one inconclusive feat. That's the point. I read the series and Lucifer was in no way, shape, or form near Michael's power level. And ye he was defeated by a lesser angel thna Lucifer in combat due to his exposed backside. These angels aren't invulnerable. They weren't portrayed as such.

A battlezone is a one on one debate where I'd back Thanos against your Lucifer.

Since the spear did more Damage to Lucifer than the explosion that Lucifer tanked/ignored/shaped then I would say yes Sandolphon's
Spear > Explosion and could be multiversal.

Originally posted by BullwinkleMoose
Since the spear did more Damage to Lucifer than the explosion that Lucifer tanked/ignored/shaped then I would say yes Sandolphon's
Spear > Explosion and could be multiversal.
Save he channeled the power into doing what it does; create. He has the skills to do so like Elaine. Context ftw.

Throughout the series all these supernatural beings could all harm each other. Even the one with the greatest power fell before sandolphon. He wasn't invulnerable.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's prior to him tutoring her. We also know Lucifer did so once. He already created a universe. I mean come on.

It is clear in the artwork that Lucifer created his universe from the energies that were released in the explosion. That is not how Elaine did it. She took the energy as her own, thus preventing the explosion that would have surely killed her. Lucifer didn't bother to do that.

Amenadiel, Fenris, The japanese gods, etc.

Yeah, see it's stuff like this that makes me wonder if you ever read the series. Each of these situations took place when Lucifer was explicitly depowered. You're just proving my point.

Amenadiel: Lucifer's sabotaged wings, remember? While he was fighting Amenadiel, Mazikeen tracked down and destroyed the magic used to do it. Once she did, he got his full power back all at once, causing the angel who was about to kill him to back down like a punk. And that took over a year of prep from a god and a high-level reality warper to depower him that much. Try again.

Fenris: Lucifer was losing power due to the absence of Yahweh. Yahweh had been gone for over a year at that point, IIRC. You've already admitted this. Try again.

The Japanese gods: He was MORTAL in their dimension!

Come on, Quan! You talked so tough, I thought you would at least test me a little. You want to resume this in a month or so, when you've had time to do your homework?

{imagine here quan says a lot of things}

This isn't complicated:
a) taking an explosive to a place where it can't hurt anyone else doesn't "prep" you for it going off in your face. There was nothing special about the void, there's just nothing there. It still seems that all you can do is make assumptions with no backing in story or artwork. There's nothing more to say. If you bring it back up without more evidence, I'll probably ignore it.

b) I don't know why Sandy's spear hurt Michael. I could make up some elaborate theory (I can think of 3 off the top off my head).. but I really don't care. I can just dismiss it as an uncharacteristically low showing. He has much better showings, like taking shots from Lucifer and surviving the trip to Ygdrasil.

c) all this stuff about Thanos is completely irrelevant. Yes, he did a good job mastering the energies. But that's not what Lucifer did and he still doesn't have Lucifer's baseline power.

d)There is no evidence at all that Michael can defeat Lucifer with his best effort, let alone a gesture. In the comic, some characters believed that Michael was slightly more powerful, but it never showed on panel. Give me some evidence, or let it go.

I read the series and Lucifer was in no way, shape, or form near Michael's power level.

Umm... read it again. Lucifer ignited every star in YHWH's creation. Lucifer WTFPWNED everyone he physically fought against at anywhere close to full power. Lucifer killed Michael in a fight when they were both wounded. Lucifer destroyed one of the more fragile afterlife realms just by passing through. When Lucifer showed up on the final battlefield (before anyone but Fenris knew he was depowered) the entire opposing army stopped in their tracks and said "we're screwed." Lucifer is a beast, as that's not even getting into his esoterics.

Honestly, Quan, I'm disappointed. I'll gladly settle this in a battlezone, if you really like your odds.

Originally posted by Dream Stuff
It is clear in the artwork that Lucifer created his universe from the energies that were released in the explosion. That is not how Elaine did it. She took the energy as her own, thus preventing the explosion that would have surely killed her. Lucifer didn't bother to do that.
Lucifer created it by the same energies. The power is unleashed save elaine didn't have the luxury of having prep time and it being released in the Void.

Yeah, see it's stuff like this that makes me wonder if you ever read the series. Each of these situations took place when Lucifer was explicitly depowered. You're just proving my point. [/B]
He wasn't completely depowered against Fenris he kept his power hidden. He also had aid in healing himself to retake on fenris. Lucifer took his own wings off so I mean what else do I have to say ?

With his wings Michael easily trounced him with a lot less power than what is released when he dies. Clearly that power can be manipulated to create life since that's it's purpose.


Amenadiel: Lucifer's sabotaged wings, remember? While he was fighting Amenadiel, Mazikeen tracked down and destroyed the magic used to do it. Once she did, he got his full power back all at once, causing the angel who was about to kill him to back down like a punk. And that took over a year of prep from a god and a high-level reality warper to depower him that much. Try again. [/B]
Lucifer had aid in taking down Amenadiel. It took him a while to even show up for the battle. Again, I haven't read this in years I don't memorize 75 issue plus tie ins.

Fenris: Lucifer was losing power due to the absence of Yahweh. Yahweh had been gone for over a year at that point, IIRC. You've already admitted this. Try again. [/B]
Which proves in a versus thread minus his supreme being he's weaker than usual. Fenris got stronger when this happened but Lucifer also had help from Mazikeen and that random chick who healed him after he initially fled the battlefield. That makes their fights 1-1 since Lucifer fled the scene to be healed somewhat.

The Japanese gods: He was MORTAL in their dimension!

Come on, Quan! You talked so tough, I thought you would at least test me a little. You want to resume this in a month or so, when you've had time to do your homework?
[/B]

Yes, and he outsmarted them. He tricked them. he didn't really best them in combat. He outplayed them. That's not being unbeatable I mean he loses his powers in certain dimensions.

So far we've established:

1.Minus his supreme being occupying his own universe he's weaker.
2.He's powerless in certain dimensions.
3.Damaging an angel's wings greatly depowers them.

You're ruing Lucifer and you don't even realize it. This is the stuff of legend.

This isn't complicated:
a) taking an explosive to a place where it can't hurt anyone else doesn't "prep" you for it going off in your face. There was nothing special about the void, there's just nothing there. It still seems that all you can do is make assumptions with no backing in story or artwork. There's nothing more to say. If you bring it back up without more evidence, I'll probably ignore it. [/B]

I posted on panel proof where he shows/helps her do so. Taking someone to a special location where the word "controlled" detonation is used is enough. Lucifer put himself in a situation to manipulate said energies. He made it ideal for himself. Elaine had to make the best of her situation.

b) I don't know why Sandy's spear hurt Michael. I could make up some elaborate theory (I can think of 3 off the top off my head).. but I really don't care. I can just dismiss it as an uncharacteristically low showing. He has much better showings, like taking shots from Lucifer and surviving the trip to Ygdrasil. [/B]
Because he wasn't invulnerable. Just because he's by far more powerful than Lucifer and the rest of the angels combined doesn't mean he's unhurtable. The series showed us otherwise.

c) all this stuff about Thanos is completely irrelevant. Yes, he did a good job mastering the energies. But that's not what Lucifer did and he still doesn't have Lucifer's baseline power. [/B]
Thanos seems a lot more powerful as he's unkillable unlike Lucifer. He can enter dimensions and not suddenly become powerless. He recently overrode the energies of an entire universe and overcame death being nonexistent. Thanos' baseline power is far greater. Thanos' durability is far greater. Thanos' wisdom and cunning is far greater. Thanos wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth like Lucifer. Lucifer's infinite will was given to him Thanos formed his own willpower due to life experiences.

d)There is no evidence at all that Michael can defeat Lucifer with his best effort, let alone a gesture. In the comic, some characters believed that Michael was slightly more powerful, but it never showed on panel. Give me some evidence, or let it go. [/B]
It showed us in the comic Michael could have defeated the entire host with a gesture. Lucifer isn't even close to his power level. If you want to pretend Michael isn't more powerful then you are delusional.

Umm... read it again. Lucifer ignited every star in YHWH's creation. Lucifer WTFPWNED everyone he physically fought against at anywhere close to full power. Lucifer killed Michael in a fight when they were both wounded. Lucifer destroyed one of the more fragile afterlife realms just by passing through. When Lucifer showed up on the final battlefield (before anyone but Fenris knew he was depowered) the entire opposing army stopped in their tracks and said "we're screwed." Lucifer is a beast, as that's not even getting into his esoterics.

Honestly, Quan, I'm disappointed. I'll gladly settle this in a battlezone, if you really like your odds. [/B]

Michael held back and he was weakened. Lucifer didn't hold back. It's right on panel but of course you want to deny everything because you're a Lucifer hardcore fan. core fan

Lucifer didn't easily destroy anyone really in combat. There were always circumstances. he mainly outsmarted his stupid enemies.

The best part if you bring up Lucifer showing up and his reputation intimidating his foes. Fenris destroyed this notion with one spear toss. Fenris knew he could hurt him. Fenris' point was to destroy everything so he was at his best while creation was on the verge of being destroyed. Lucifer then fled the battlefield losing their first battle.

The second battle I still don't see as fair since Paul Rudd or whatever his name was first opposed him as did Mazikeen and Lucifer.

In the future it's something I would be more than happy to do.

Your lies have been exposed quan quit while your ahead. Lucifer is immune to death way more then Thanos. Death fears Lucifer. No way that Thanos can beat Lucifer. Oh and Lucifer didnt create a Universe he created a Megaverse no way that Thanos can come close to that power.

Originally posted by TheMask
Your lies have been exposed quan quit while your ahead. Lucifer is immune to death way more then Thanos. Death fears Lucifer. No way that Thanos can beat Lucifer. Oh and Lucifer didnt create a Universe he created a Megaverse no way that Thanos can come close to that power.
Please pick up a comic.

If Lucifer can accept he can die why can't you ?

Lucifer used the powers to create which Michael unleashed. Lucifer can't do so on his own either. 😂

Never said he could create the Multiverse on his own MULTIVERSE NOT UNIVERSE. Oh and you forgot were Elaine was saying his power was leaving him. Also when the bastino tried killing him she was afraid to take him DEATH i mean. So why would she try again? Ive read the comic buddy boy have you? The spell used on thanos by the underworld gods was suppose to destroy him? Did it? IT was his power against himself lol.

Nice try idiot.

Originally posted by TheMask
Never said he could create the Multiverse on his own MULTIVERSE NOT UNIVERSE. Oh and you forgot were Elaine was saying his power was leaving him. Also when the bastino tried killing him she was afraid to take him DEATH i mean. So why would she try again? Ive read the comic buddy boy have you? The spell used on thanos by the underworld gods was suppose to destroy him? Did it? IT was his power against himself lol.

Nice try idiot.

The point is Lucifer can clearly die. He was against the odds for pretty much the duration of his comic. Yes, Lucifer's powers are dependent on his supreme being existing in the universe. Not the case with Thanos.

Thanos has more impressive showings than Lucifer. Not really comparable.

Thanos is immune to death not Lucifer. Read up on both in the near future.

Yeah cause thanos can create a multiverse.

Thanos can kill death.

Thanos has defeated supreme beings

actually thanos has done none of those things lol no thanos has not as impressive feats as Lucifer and no Lucifer cant die.

And how would you know if the TOAA left Marvel if Marvel would start to go to ruin we dont so stfu. Also He cant die we already saw what happend when they tried to kill him.

Originally posted by TheMask
Yeah cause thanos can create a multiverse.

Thanos can kill death.

Thanos has defeated supreme beings

actually thanos has done none of those things lol no thanos has not as impressive feats as Lucifer and no Lucifer cant die.

And how would you know if the TOAA left Marvel if Marvel would start to go to ruin we dont so stfu. Also He cant die we already saw what happend when they tried to kill him.

Lucifer can't create one either. Michael's powers did which he used or shaped.

Thanos has mastered the supreme beings power source. I already posted proof Lucifer can die. You seem like a troll tbh.

Lucifer can die he just wasn't killed. There's a difference.

He cant die. Death was afraid of him cause even when he was on the print of destruction, Death said dont kill the mesasnger. To bad you didnt post THAT scan. I guess it wasnt part of your busy schedual.

Originally posted by TheMask
He cant die. Death was afraid of him cause even when he was on the print of destruction, Death said dont kill the mesasnger. To bad you didnt post THAT scan. I guess it wasnt part of your busy schedual.
He can die and even admitted as much throughout the arc. I posted one scan but you are someone who doesn't accept proof.

Even if someone helped with half the job of creating the multiverse. Thanos could not shape the suns, the planets, time and space, create beings. Lucifer did. 🙂

In his own multiverse Lucifer WAS the supreme being.

Originally posted by TheMask
Even if someone helped with half the job of creating the multiverse. Thanos could not shape the suns, the planets, time and space, create beings. Lucifer did. 🙂

In his own multiverse Lucifer WAS the supreme being.

Thanos fixed the universal flaw that the supreme being could not do on his own. Lucifer did something Elaine did and she had no experience whatsoever and was young. That means it isn't that hard imo.

Yes, in his own universe but Thanos was the supreme being in the 616 reality. he didn't have to create it to become supreme.

Anything Lucifer does Thanos does better.

what part of MULTIVERSE dont you understand? Is it multi or verse?

Lucifer using Micheals powers created a MULTIVERSE. So yeah its way harder then doing ONE universe.

Originally posted by TheMask
what part of MULTIVERSE dont you understand? Is it multi or verse?

Lucifer using Micheals powers created a MULTIVERSE. So yeah its way harder then doing ONE universe.

Yes, Thanos became the supreme being of all reality using the supreme being's power.

Lucifer needed someone elses power and Elaine already matched his feat despite her lack of experience. Not that difficult, obviously.

Only Thanos had the will and the training.

You said ONE reality make up your mind. Where does it say in the thanos comic that it was the entire megaverse or omniverse which is impossible since omni means everything even this universe which you and me are fighting in.