Originally posted by TheMaskThanos did what the supreme being could not do. Thanos defeated the Living Tribunal like an ant. Lt is multiversal and can hold megaverses in his jock. Thanos outclasses Lucifer in every way.
You said ONE reality make up your mind. Where does it say in the thanos comic that it was the entire megaverse or omniverse which is impossible since omni means everything even this universe which you and me are fighting in.
Yeah you wish. LT was reconned into megaversal or whatever. In thanos comic it never says he took a multiverse. It doesnt matter what he DID. Its what he can DO.
He cant do anything Lucifer can do in his base power sorry quan your hopeful delusional thinking is sad and Lucifer morningstar destroys thanos. Thats why they dont let me open any Lucifer vs Thanos threads cause they make it a spite thread against your precious thanos.
Originally posted by TheGodKillerWhen did I say he had the hotu here ? Thanos mastered the energies under his own power. 🙂
Does the OP specify that Thanos has the HoTU ?
Originally posted by TheMaskThanos easily destroyed him on panel. Lucifer almost died against Fenris and needed to avoid conflict because straight up he had to fight smart and needed aid in order to do so. That's not straight up.
Yeah you wish. LT was reconned into megaversal or whatever. In thanos comic it never says he took a multiverse. It doesnt matter what he DID. Its what he can DO.He cant do anything Lucifer can do in his base power sorry quan your hopeful delusional thinking is sad and Lucifer morningstar destroys thanos. Thats why they dont let me open any Lucifer vs Thanos threads cause they make it a spite thread against your precious thanos.
Again, quit being so emotional just debate. Saying he destroys Thanos isn't the same as proving it. Unlike you I back up my claims. You aren't a good debater.
Originally posted by TheMaskFar less than Thanos has hurt Lucifer. Sandolphon's spear defeated Michael who could kill Lucifer with a gesture of power along with all the other angels. Thanos destroys Lucifer who shouldn't be at the end of the gauntlet.
Thanos is destroyed in this gauntlet at Odin. He cant defeat Lucifer, He cant even scratch Lucifer. You cant even prove he can. Your not a good debator and everyone on here knows it.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Far less than Thanos has hurt Lucifer. Sandolphon's spear defeated Michael who could kill Lucifer with a gesture of power along with all the other angels. Thanos destroys Lucifer who shouldn't be at the end of the gauntlet.
You're still just going around saying things you don't know. You have no evidence that Michael can beat Lucifer, and you have no idea how Michael's durability compares to Lucifer. You can't seem to think of anything that hurt Lucifer without a major plot point requiring at least a year of prep to reduce his power.
You even admitted that Lucifer was weakened while Fenris was at his peak, and now you're bringing up the spear incident again like you don't know any better. Maybe you just don't learn.
Originally posted by Dream StuffLucifer has infinite willpower while Michael has infinite power. There's a reason why Lucifer needed Michael's power to create a universe. Michael is by far more powerful. Lucifer doesn't have the power to defeat the entire host with a gesture. If you can't acknowledge this you're a fanboy. Plain and simple.
You're still just going around saying things you don't know. You have no evidence that Michael can beat Lucifer, and you have no idea how Michael's durability compares to Lucifer.
Lucifer's durability was never shown to be above anything else. If you read it multiple times then you'd realize he was never invulnerable. He simply never was. Lucifer relied on his wits not his power. That was a consistent theme throughout the series.
Originally posted by quanchi112 He wasn't completely depowered against Fenris he kept his power hidden. He also had aid in healing himself to retake on fenris. Lucifer took his own wings off so I mean what else do I have to say ?
Say you'll read the comic again so that you know what you're talking about.
With his wings Michael easily trounced him
Never happened. You're seriously making things up.
Lucifer had aid in taking down Amenadiel. It took him a while to even show up for the battle. Again, I haven't read this in years I don't memorize 75 issue plus tie ins.
Clearly you didn't memorize it. Clearly you can barely even remember it. Lucifer had help against Amenadiel because (drumroll) he was depowered! I literally just explained this to you and you don't even remember that.
Which proves in a versus thread minus his supreme being he's weaker than usual.
Forum rules say he'll be as powerful as he is in his native universe.
2.He's powerless in certain dimensions.
Just the one dimension, in which every outsider is mortal. It's a rule. No exceptions. It has no bearing on a forum fight.
3.Damaging an angel's wings greatly depowers them.
Not damaging, sabotaging. It requires extensive prep and the angel has to be tricked into accepting it. Again, not relevant in a forum fight.
Originally posted by Dream StuffYes, that means he controlled when and where it happened. Elaine did not. Huge difference.
Say you'll read the comic again so that you know what you're talking about.Never happened. You're seriously making things up.
Clearly you didn't memorize it. Clearly you can barely even remember it. Lucifer had help against Amenadiel because (drumroll) he was depowered! I literally just explained this to you and you don't even remember that.
Forum rules say he'll be as powerful as he is in his native universe.
Just the one dimension, in which every outsider is mortal. It's a rule. No exceptions. It has no bearing on a forum fight.
Not damaging, sabotaging. It requires extensive prep and the angel has to be tricked into accepting it. Again, not relevant in a forum fight.
Read Lucifer's own words where he says he wasn't depowered he held some in for when the fight got up close and personal. You need to reread it again.
Michael defeated all the opposition until he exposed his backside. Did Lucifer oppose him ?
Yes, but that's his fault he was depowered. So you can't say he was greater than Amenadiel when he needs outside aid to meet his end of the duel.
He is as powerful as he normally is. He fights minus those powers since the majority of the arc the presence was gone. His powers are dependent on the presence. That was a minority of the arc. The presence doesn't come with him.
So his powers are negated in certain dimensions. Thanos overpowered an entire universe where death had been eliminated. Greater power altogether.
They can be clearly damaged. As seen on panel. Deal with it.
Originally posted by quanchi112 Lucifer doesn't have the power to defeat the entire host with a gesture.
It is frequently suggested in the text that he could, in fact, do that.
Even the host believed it: when he returned to the Silver City, they said that even if all they could do is die, they did not regret their duty to fight him.
Lucifer relied on his wits not his power. That was a consistent theme throughout the series.
Quan, you're just factually wrong. The reason Lucifer won with his wits a lot in the series is because he spent a lot of the series depowered for various reasons (namely, so Mike Carey could tell an interesting story instead of "and Lucifer burned everyone to death"😉. I've already explained the contexts to you in detail. Just read, man.
Originally posted by Dream StuffThat was due to reputation and nothing more. Both Michael and Lucifer were held in the highest regard in heaven. Michael was the most powerful by far. His power was shown to be on another level entirely. He can create a universe. Lucifer can't. This isn't debatable.
It is frequently suggested in the text that he could, in fact, do that.Even the host believed it: when he returned to the Silver City, they said that even if all they could do is die, they did not regret their duty to fight him.
Quan, you're just factually wrong. The reason Lucifer won with his wits a lot in the series is because he spent a lot of the series depowered for various reasons (namely, so Mike Carey could tell an interesting story instead of "and Lucifer burned everyone to death"😉. I've already explained the contexts to you in detail. Just read, man.
I read the comic. He clearly had limits and needed others aid. He relied on his reputation, others aid ( he went to Loki to gather a ship to traverse the realms), he was screwed over by Fenris into killing his own brother, needed aid against Amenadiel (who firmly believed he had the power to kill him one on one), etc.
Lucifer just was nowhere near as powerful as Thanos has been portrayed. The series was interesting but wasn't up to snuff in terms of combat formidability. Reread it again.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Read Lucifer's own words where he says he wasn't depowered he held some in for when the fight got up close and personal.
Yes, you're just reading scans. Its obvious now. Otherwise you'd know that he was depowered and had been getting increasingly weak for quite a while (it comes up several times in the previous issues). What that one, out-of-context page meant was that he wasn't as weak yet as he pretended to be.
Once again, Quan, read comics.
Michael defeated all the opposition until he exposed his backside. Did Lucifer oppose him ?
No. Lucifer fought Gabriel on the battlefield before Michael was anywhere to be seen. Then YHWH took Lucifer away while his army kept fighting. I ALREADY EXPLAINED THIS TO YOU.
Read comics.
Yes, but that's his fault he was depowered.
He was the victim of one-sided prep. Not relevant in a forum fight.
They can be clearly damaged. As seen on panel. Deal with it.
But damaging them conventionally doesn't depower an angel. If it did, certainly Lucifer would have been depowered when his wings were cut off, but he wasn't. He only needed the wings back so he could more easily travel. Again, it took one-sided prep to trick him into reattaching sabotaged wings AND a high-end reality warper to exploit that sabotaging a year later. Not relevant in a forum fight.
Honestly, I don't know what you seem to grasp less, the forum rules or the Lucifer series.
Originally posted by Dream StuffI read the entire arc. I never said he was at full power he just kept it hidden that he had that much power left. Try and pay attention to what it is I am saying.
Yes, you're just reading scans. Its obvious now. Otherwise you'd know that he was depowered and had been getting increasingly weak for quite a while (it comes up several times in the previous issues). What that one, out-of-context page meant was that he wasn't as weak yet as he pretended to be.Once again, Quan, read comics.
No. Lucifer fought Gabriel on the battlefield before Michael was anywhere to be seen. Then YHWH took Lucifer away while his army kept fighting. I ALREADY EXPLAINED THIS TO YOU.
Read comics.
He was the victim of one-sided prep. Not relevant in a forum fight.
But damaging them conventionally doesn't depower an angel. If it did, certainly Lucifer would have been depowered when his wings were cut off, but he wasn't. He only needed the wings back so he could more easily travel. Again, it took one-sided prep to trick him into reattaching sabotaged wings AND a high-end reality warper to exploit that sabotaging a year later. Not relevant in a forum fight.
Honestly, I don't know what you seem to grasp less, the forum rules or the Lucifer series.
Lucifer telling us he held back that power doesn't mean he's completely powerless. Try and think. Reread the series one more time. Maybe you will finally grasp it. 4th time's the charm.
I said Michael had the power to defeat all his opposition with a gesture. This includes Lucifer. Michael hesistated and did not do so but it's clear he had the power to do so. Again comprehend the writer's message.
Lucifer needed outside help to win a duel. That's called cheating. he has to cheat in order to win.
Damaging them did depower Michael so thus it would depower Lucifer. Michael held back against Lucifer who was currently fenris' bytch. Awful showing to be controlled by the wolf and kill his own brother because he was mentally controlled like a puppet.
If we take Kal Kent's powers for instance we don't bring in the super sun unless otherwise stated. We don't bring in Mephisto's realm unless otherwise stated. Lucifer fights under his own powers not in his own universe where his powers are dependent on the presence residing in there. he didn't even reside there the majority of the series. LOL. You just really like Lucifer and read it a lot but fail to comprehend it still.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Michael was the most powerful by far. His power was shown to be on another level entirely. He can create a universe. Lucifer can't. This isn't debatable.
Lucifer and Michael had different powers (Michael created, Lucifer manipulated), but there is no indication that one was greater than the other. Show me proof or let it go.
he went to Loki to gather a ship to traverse the realms
He got the ship for his friends, not for himself. He proved he didn't use it at all.
Read comics.
Originally posted by Dream StuffMichael's powers created which is greater. Manipulating something doesn't make you more powerful it shows you have the ability to manipulate this power. That's all. You really don't comprehend much.
Lucifer and Michael had different powers (Michael created, Lucifer manipulated), but there is no indication that one was greater than the other. Show me proof or let it go.He got the ship for his friends, not for himself. He proved he didn't use it at all.
Read comics.
He needed the ship. He needed Loki's aid. Yes, I read it and greatly understood he went to others to aid him. He almost came up short despite all his prep and aid.
Comprehend comics.
Originally posted by quanchi112
[BIf we take Kal Kent's powers for instance we don't bring in the super sun unless otherwise stated. We don't bring in Mephisto's realm unless otherwise stated. Lucifer fights under his own powers not in his own universe where his powers are dependent on the presence residing in there. he didn't even reside there the majority of the series. LOL. You just really like Lucifer and read it a lot but fail to comprehend it still. [/B]
We don't need to use Presence-Lucifer to beat Thanos, if that's what you mean. If you're still talking about him being weakened by being apart from the Presence, keep reading:
Forum rules aside (Lucifer was at full power in every creation except when explicitly depowered by a plot point),
it's moot: Lucifer is NOT depowered when he leaves YHWH. He only starts losing power when YHWH leaft him in YHWH's creation. Do you see the difference? Lucifer was fine when he left YHWH's creation to go into the void, remember? He was fine in his own creation, remember? He was fine in Elaine's creation, remember? He'll be fine on the forum. It's only trying to hang around in a creation after its specific Presence has left than causes problems.
it's moot again: Lucifer wasn't depowered immidietly after YHWH left, either. It was very gradual (maybe over a year before the spear incident). In fact, when YHWH left, neither he nor Michael even realized it. So even if he is uncharacteristically weakened by leaving the Presence to fight in the forum (which he isn't), the process is too slow to have any effect.
So that whole argument is thrice-failed.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Michael's powers created which is greater.
According to what? Matter and energy canot be created or destroyed in real life, so you have nothing to base your comparison on. It will suffice to say that Lucifer's and Michael's powers are different. If you have on-panel proof that Michael is more powerful, lets see it.
He needed the ship. He needed Loki's aid. Yes, I read it and greatly understood
Okay then, why did he need the ship? Maybe if I make you explain it you will see how irrelevant this point is.
Originally posted by Dream StuffOf course he's fine in a universe where he is supreme. Lucifer's powers are dependent on his supreme being existing in his own universe. Lucifer also was in the void and unleashed his brother's power and created his own universe.
We don't need to use Presence-Lucifer to beat Thanos, if that's what you mean. If you're still talking about him being weakened by being apart from the Presence, keep reading:Forum rules aside (Lucifer was at full power in every creation except when explicitly depowered by a plot point),
it's moot: Lucifer is NOT depowered when he leaves YHWH. He only starts losing power when YHWH leaft him in YHWH's creation. Do you see the difference? Lucifer was fine when he left YHWH's creation to go into the void, remember? He was fine in his own creation, remember? He was fine in Elaine's creation, remember? He'll be fine on the forum. It's only trying to hang around in a creation after its specific Presence has left than causes problems.
it's moot again: Lucifer wasn't depowered immidietly after YHWH left, either. It was very gradual (maybe over a year before the spear incident). In fact, when YHWH left, neither he nor Michael even realized it. So even if he is uncharacteristically weakened by leaving the Presence to fight in the forum (which he isn't), the process is too slow to have any effect.
So that whole argument is thrice-failed.
I get that it's gradual and not an immediate thing which backs my case about the elaine universe. She was supreme there. Lucifer relies on a supreme being to back his power and when there isn't one residing in creation he begins to lose power. It's painfully evident.
I for one don't think even at full power he can best Thanos but I do believe in an extended fight against someone else it would come into play.