Originally posted by leonidasEnough to dim the sun and drain people of earth and most likely every star. What proof do you have that he wasn't tapping the whole power? Let me guess, another speculation?
[B]so you've said, but still not shown....and..... Yeah he tapped the power
so, how much did he 'tap'? any idea?Enough to dim the sun and drain people of earth and most likely entirety of it. Silver age isn't known for subtlety and yes its from silver age.
obviously not the whole thing for reasons that are self-evident. so....how much?You can read the scan, can't you?
YOU said he was powered up by the BIG BANG, not me. if it's not true don't say it and people won't call you out on it. 🙂Guess the power to fuel everything in universe isn't the power of big bang. You aren't calling me on anything, you are just twisting straight words to suit your needs. You have any proof of the random things you're saying here?
he wasn't as strong as even your depowered superman, unfortunately.None of these chumps are anywhere near that level of strength.
and where did i say this golden age gem mr invincible wasn't powerful....?Silver age and more specifically 1980.
he just wasn't powerful enough to hurt cm, though he really didn't try very hard....And who here is tapping the power to fuel entire universe to make a claim about hurting adam here? Did you even read the scans? He fought cap for hours and still cap didn't feel a thing.
and you keep comparing him to marvel--wasn't there an incident where marvel had to restore the earth's rotation while fighting the monster society maybe?? and cm actually needed mary's (who was close to cm himself in power) to do it?? that doesn't sound too great....That was explained as to rotate the earth which was rotating in opposite direction, they both needed to push as to produce the torque. If you want feats then the golden age feats are canon for cap.
yeah, i've seen that. while i wonder at how true that was at the time of crisis (i suspect that particular weakness was no longer evident at all, for adam or marvel....)You speculating again? It was just recently referenced again in All star squadron.
it doesn't help here since all the team would need to do is bfr him to some other universeWho here can BFR someone to another universe?
a fact superman would know.Post crisis superman doesn't know about PC adam 😐.
too bad supes knows the weakness and tells ss to hit him with lightning and ends the battle without having to transmute him.....Post crisis superman doesn't know anything about PC adam.
sure, because he was weakening. so, how weak was he?As weak as superman under a red sun.
so much speculation.Yeah, you are doing a fine job so far.
so in his own universe he was what? the presence? utterly unbeatable by any being in existence? where do you draw the line at his invulnerability? infinite fallacy AGAIN, for teh failz.Strawman logic. These characters don't have the power to harm him. Make a separate thread about that.
true invulnerability, eh? called that where? so NO ONE could beat adam eh?Again strawmanning. He was unaffected by people above these three.
nothing could harm him, ever.Again the same logic.
because of that single showing, you extrapolate his invulnerability to idiotic levels.You are the one showing idiocy here. I never said that nobody can hurt him ever. You are the guy who is saying that these guys can harm him, so where's the proof?
i'm surprised you're pursuing this stupidity to the extent you are. i can only imagine how you'd be arguing AGAINST this in most cases.I can't believe that you are lowballing someone so hard.
lolThe way you think that he's going to use here, I'm absolutely against it.
i'll remember that you said superman using his combat speed feats=him fighting in cbr fashion. 👆
and based on feats, adam (who you said has hardly any) wouldn't even be able to SEE them, lolHe's FTL and crossed entire universe. He can certainly see them.
lol 👆*cough*BRB two shotted his ass while weakened*cough*
exactly. so the lengths you are going to to try and prove something that was never really tested--We can gauge his power by his exact equal cap.
certainly not by the standards of things in comics today--is kind of laughable.Sure, just forgot armbar, frying pan, snakes, gas stations, bullets, kree blasters etc, etc.
and if anyone attempted to use the type of abc and tangential logic you've used in this thread AGAINST you, you'd be calling them morons from the tops of the tallest mountains.Yeah, because two completely identical characters in powers can't be used to gauge the general level of their powers. How awfull of me!
you've admitted adam has no feats to really support any stance substantially.No, I didn't. I said that he doesn't have too many feats. Vastly different.
so everything you and other claim is based purely on abc logic and miniscule amounts of evidence.At least I have some evidence, all you've got here is your wild imagination.
and even THAT doesn't matter in a thread where even if you don't think the team can just out-power him, they STILL know all his weaknesses!Unless, I missed a superman/black adam meeting, I don't think they do.
while i appreciate your dedication (and i've no doubt you were scouring books for feats to support your casue)Not really, I had all of these scans for awhile ago.
no matter how you look at it, you've taken a largely indefensible stance.You don't even have a stance. All you are doing here is to demand that I prove that adam survive LT's power which is not relevant here, saying that he would be hurt despite people more powerful than them tried and failed. Oh and post crisis superman knows about PC adam.
adam loses here.No he doesn't.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Enough to dim the sun and drain people of earth and most likely every star. What proof do you have that he wasn't tapping the whole power? Let me guess, another speculation?
well, if he were tapping the whole power, the universe would have no energy. or whatever nonsense this 'mass of matter' is shooting off. 😐 so, how much was he using again? certainly not the power of a big bang. 😂 stop saying things that aren't true or people will start confusing you with carter.
Enough to dim the sun and drain people of earth and most likely entirety of it. Silver age isn't known for subtlety and yes its from silver age. You can read the scan, can't you? Guess the power to fuel everything in universe isn't the power of big bang. You aren't calling me on anything, you are just twisting straight words to suit your needs. You have any proof of the random things you're saying here?
the question should be did YOU read your OWN scans. seriously. it specifically says AFTER the big bang formed all matter..... some 'mass of matter' becomes the soul of the universe or something. whatever. he tapped into it to an unquantifiable degree. do you know how much he used? regardless, it wasn't enough to beat a guy who needed help to slow the earth's rotation....
None of these chumps are anywhere near that level of strength.
hmm, i'll remember that too when you're talking about superman--apparently now, when you need him to be, he's a chump who can never compare to pc guys. laughable and from someone who loves the character to turn on him and lie like that is a little disgraceful. people will love hearing you acknowledge that superman is a chump though.....
You speculating again? It was just recently referenced again in All star squadron.
really? where was this?
Post crisis superman doesn't know anything about PC adam.
that's possible i suppose. the lanterns weren't affected though and lantern has fought him. he may well still know, but if he did that would just make the whole fight far too easy anyway and his knowledge is irrelevant to my stance.
As weak as superman under a red sun. Yeah, you are doing a fine job so far. Strawman logic. These characters don't have the power to harm him. Make a separate thread about that.
bs about how weak he was. utter crap. show a scan of him stating he was weakened. at all. and a thread about what? be my guest and open whatever you'd like.
Again strawmanning. He was unaffected by people above these three. Again the same logic. You are the one showing idiocy here. I never said that nobody can hurt him ever. You are the guy who is saying that these guys can harm him, so where's the proof? [/B]
😂
kole. depowered superman. weakened cap marvel who seems to have had planetary strength.
this fight is never really in doubt--i've already proven he can be transmuted while you've shown NOTHING that says he can't. irrefutable fact. if you don't like the transmutation, ss sundips kal with massive amounts of sunlight and makes him uber sundipped--i trust a sundipped supes isn't a chump? 😂. then he uses his tp to instill absolute confidence in gladiator. then he watches them handle adam h2h using their on-panel combat speed. even current kal knows about the lightning issue with cap, so it's easy for ss to blast him with lightning IF he feels he needs to. or he can try any of a million other things ss fans say he can do.
you admit to having almost no proof of anything, then call into question the fact that i'm questioning you and the illogical abc/tangential progression of your stance. if you brought this type of horrible, unsupported crap into a bz, you'd be rolled. not sure why you think bringing it into here is any more acceptable.
you've admitted he has hardly any appearances and you can't support....pretty well anything. yet you persist. meh, whatever gets you off i guess.
Originally posted by abhilegend
At least I have some evidence, all you've got here is your wild imagination.
everything else is meaningless and been gone over already. so, let's recap, shall we:
i have PROOF that he can EASILY be transmuted. you have NO proof that he can't. you say he was weakened? prove he was said to be weak--and try using a RELEVANT scan, FROM the series, and not some scan from 2 or 3yrs prior as your source.....
i have PROOF he can be bfr'd. you have NO proof he can't be (or have SHOWN none).
i have PROOF he isn't as strong as a depowered superman--a superman that is FAR closer to owaw superman (and which you YOURSELF have said in the past....) than most want to admit. and ss could EASILY amp him to ridiculous levels. you have NOTHING save your failsafe--he's got TRUE invulnerability!!11! to fall back on.
i have PROOF of the combat speed feats these guys can use.
so, WHO exactly has no proof of anything again?
you don't even have a stance.
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have you been READING this debate??? my stance is crystal clear and has been repeated ad nauseum throughout--these 3 demolish adam. can't be any clearer.
All you are doing here is to demand that I prove that adam survive LT's power which is not relevant here,
well, i want to see how far you're willing to carry your infinite fallacy. it's really of no relevance though so feel free to ignore if you can't answer. 🙂
saying that he would be hurt despite people more powerful than them tried and failed. Oh and post crisis superman knows about PC adam. No he doesn't. [/B]
kole>>>all previous pc characters i guess.....
Originally posted by leonidasBut according to you, its not the power of big bang and thus it can't shut down the universe.
well, if he were tapping the whole power, the universe would have no energy. or whatever nonsense this 'mass of matter' is shooting off. 😐
so, how much was he using again?Making the sun and stars go dim.
certainly not the power of a big bang. 😂 stop saying things that aren't true or people will start confusing you with carter.He used the power of a big bang.
the question should be did YOU read your OWN scans. seriously. it specifically says AFTER the big bang formed all matter..... some 'mass of matter' becomes the soul of the universe or something.Which fuels the entire universe. You should read the whole scan.
he tapped into it to an unquantifiable degree.We got a quantifiable value, he channeled enough energy that if cap defeated him, everything would perish.
do you know how much he used?Do you? The best of your three here got nearly mad by absorbing a portion of a red sun.
regardless, it wasn't enough to beat a guy who needed help to slow the earth's rotation....Cap had absolute invulnerability, not strength.
hmm, i'll remember that too when you're talking about superman--apparently now, when you need him to be, he's a chump who can never compare to pc guys. laughable and from someone who loves the character to turn on him and lie like that is a little disgraceful. people will love hearing you acknowledge that superman is a chump though.....You done here tryin to get a response outta me? Leave these for quan. I'm a fan, not a fanboy.
really? where was this?All star squadron 36, 51.
that's possible i suppose. the lanterns weren't affected though and lantern has fought him. he may well still know, but if he did that would just make the whole fight far too easy anyway and his knowledge is irrelevant to my stance.Carver would be proud of you for pulling something like this out of your ass.
bs about how weak he was. utter crap. show a scan of him stating he was weakened. at all.How many times you can be wrong in one thread?
and a thread about what? be my guest and open whatever you'd like.Your explanation of who can beat adam here.
😂Glad you agree.
kole. depowered superman. weakened cap marvel who seems to have had planetary strength.Adam was weakened in all of those.
this fight is never really in doubt--i've already proven he can be transmuted while you've shown NOTHING that says he can't.That would be like showing the scan of depowered juggernaut getting hurt and saying that classic juggernaut would also get hurt by that. Not applicable.
irrefutable fact.Just pulled a h1.
if you don't like the transmutation, ss sundips kal with massive amounts of sunlight and makes him uber sundipped--i trust a sundipped supes isn't a chump? 😂.This isn't a tourney.
then he uses his tp to instill absolute confidence in gladiator.Irony, you are the guy who argued that gladiator always joins the fights at absolute confidence.
then he watches them handle adam h2h using their on-panel combat speed.Which would do nothing to adam.
even current kal knows about the lightning issue with cap, so it's easy for ss to blast him with lightning IF he feels he needs to.Current superman knows that current cap doesn't changes forms by simple lightning.
or he can try any of a million other things ss fans say he can do.Which is the only reason, you are here.
you admit to having almost no proof of anything,Where?
then call into question the fact that i'm questioning you and the illogical abc/tangential progression of your stance.I'm just calling upon the crap you are spewing.
if you brought this type of horrible, unsupported crap into a bz, you'd be rolled.Its not a bz.
not sure why you think bringing it into here is any more acceptable.[Because its not a bz.
you've admitted he has hardly any appearances and you can't support....pretty well anything. yet you persist. meh, whatever gets you off i guess.Yeah, lets pretend that I said something elese while having said something else entirely. The phucking Irony is that I'm the guy who posting scans while you're just flailing arms in air.
Originally posted by leonidasLead the way.
everything else is meaningless and been gone over already. so, let's recap, shall we:
i have PROOF that he can EASILY be transmuted.While depowered.
you have NO proof that he can't.Yeah, I have, his invulnerability.
you say he was weakened? prove he was said to be weak--and try using a RELEVANT scan, FROM the series, and not some scan from 2 or 3yrs prior as your source.....What an idiotic thing to say. Its been established, canon and shown on panel. Its like asking superman is vulnerable to red sun.
i have PROOF he can be bfr'd. you have NO proof he can't be (or have SHOWN none).
i have PROOF he isn't as strong as a depowered superman--a superman that is FAR closer to owaw superman (and which you YOURSELF have said in the past....) than most want to admit.Of course because OWAW superman moved earth from several galaxies away in a few moments.
and ss could EASILY amp him to ridiculous levels.This isn't a tourney.
you have NOTHING save your failsafe--he's got TRUE invulnerability!!11! to fall back on.Because he does.
i have PROOF of the combat speed feats these guys can use.I have that too.
so, WHO exactly has no proof of anything again?Of course you.
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have you been READING this debate???I have.
my stance is crystal clear and has been repeated ad nauseum throughout--these 3 demolish adam. can't be any clearer.Without any proof, you might as well have no stance.
well, i want to see how far you're willing to carry your infinite fallacy. it's really of no relevance though so feel free to ignore if you can't answer. 🙂I didn't realize that taking shots from less powerful guys falls under it.
kole>>>all previous pc characters i guess.....Feral>godblast. She scratched juggernaut whild godblast didn't.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Lead the way.While depowered. Yeah, I have, his invulnerability. What an idiotic thing to say. Its been established, canon and shown on panel. Its like asking superman is vulnerable to red sun.
I have shown that he can access any point in time-space via ROE.
Of course because OWAW superman moved earth from several galaxies away in a few moments. This isn't a tourney. Because he does.I have that too.
Of course you.
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I have. Without any proof, you might as well have no stance.I didn't realize that taking shots from less powerful guys falls under it.
Feral>godblast. She scratched juggernaut whild godblast didn't.
you're clearly exhausted. you ask for scans--you need to see scans of superman and glads using superpseed? you need scans of ss using matter manipulation? you need scans of sundipped superman? nice, but i think those are all pretty common knowledge..... 👆 and you've not shown a SINGLE adam scan!! you know, the guy YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!
hilarious--cap needs help to restore a planet, and you criticize supermans efforts in owaw. but cap and adam are EQUALS!!1!
so, once again, ZERO scans to support anything. you already admitted he's only been in 10 issues doesn't have the feats. you equate him to cm but that's just dumb and abc logic AND adam is LESS than cm since he's lost. and he must be equal to ww as well, since cm is always shown equal to her too? i don't see her hauling around planets, so adam=ww and i like our guys odds more and more. and in future, i'll use ultraman to prove superman feats? terrible. it's clear you're argument has nothing.
hell, you haven't even ONCE proven adam is weakened or was weakened in crisis!! no reference was ever DIRECTLY MADE to adam being weakened. you try and pass off some treasury edition from 3 yrs previous as support. if he was weakened, don't you think it would be mentioned?? ridiculous. you show no speed feats, no....anything.
he was transmuted. he was going to be ko'd by supes and cm--easily. you have no proof he was weakened, or that he can resist transmutation. you cling to a single 70yr old scan. you know your logic and arguments are based on weak premises (abc/tangential) and you admit he doesn't have the appearances to have garnered feats.
yet you want everyone to believe you and accept you at your word.
lol
Originally posted by leonidasYou are exhausted if follwing is a clue.
you're clearly exhausted. you ask for scans--
you need to see scans of superman and glads using superpseed? you need scans of ss using matter manipulation? you need scans of sundipped superman?I wanted a scan of adam getting hurt while full powered. Its not my fault that you can't read simple sentences.
nice, but i think those are all pretty common knowledge..... 👆Yes they are and I know about almost all of them.
and you've not shown a SINGLE adam scan!!Clearly false, I showed multiple scans of adam.
you know, the guy YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!Cap is a good measurement of how adam's powers would work. Not feat transferring but like saying that if superman gets weakened by red sun, then supergirl would also get weakened.
hilarious--cap needs help to restore a planet, and you criticize supermans efforts in owaw.Only because he wouldn't have produced the torque needed to reverse the rotation. Clearly stated in the comic. Do superman failing to slow down callisto is also a low showing? Not really, since it was cloaked by a relativistic bubble. Cap also moved a planet the size of earth to several solar systems.
but cap and adam are EQUALS!!1!That they are.
so, once again, ZERO scans to support anything.What scan you need? Him tanking all three marvel's attack at the same time? Cap saying that neither can hurt each other?
you already admitted he's only been in 10 issues doesn't have the feats.Yeah, I said that he was in 10 issues but I said that he has enough feats to determine his power levels.
you equate him to cm but that's just dumb and abc logic AND adam is LESS than cm since he's lost.I didn't transfer cap's feats on adam and I just used the general idea of how cap's power works and using them to adam based upon their exactly the same powers. You mean when adam already had fought superman and cap was beating him because adam was on earth one far longer than cap and thus weaker? He didn't lose, cap had an edge and he took both superman and cap attacking at the same time. Could they have koed him after his power get much diminished? Possibly, but at his full power, they couldn't have done squat.
and he must be equal to ww as well, since cm is always shown equal to her too?Not pre crisis. Mary was beating diana then.
i don't see her hauling around planets, so adam=ww and i like our guys odds more and more.Would you like to see diana hauling a sun?
and in future, i'll use ultraman to prove superman feats?Sure, just as soon as ultraman gets powered by sunlight, is a kryptonian instead of his regular powers.
terrible. it's clear you're argument has nothing.Seeing that you've grasping straws like WW=adam based upom a post crisis notion forcing upon PC characters, its more like you.
hell, you haven't even ONCE proven adam is weakened or was weakened in crisis!!Prove superman is weakened by red sun light. You are sounding like carver.
no reference was ever DIRECTLY MADE to adam being weakened.Prove supergirl is weakened by kryptonite.
you try and pass off some treasury edition from 3 yrs previous as support.LOL, so we are discarding proof from a comic because its a special oneshot despite it being canon and referenced again?
if he was weakened, don't you think it would be mentioned??So you think that if it doesn't get mentioned that superman is weak to kryptonite in a comic, he doesn't gets weakened?
ridiculous.Yes, some of your arguments are worse than quan or carver's.
you show no speed feats, no....anything.Guess adam flying FTL to reach ROE isn't a speed feat. Oh well.
he was transmuted. he was going to be ko'd by supes and cm--easily. you have no proof he was weakened, or that he can resist transmutation.Are you being dense on purpose? This is seriously retarded when even after posting proofs, you are just ignoring them.
you cling to a single 70yr old scan.LOLwut. The character is that old you dunderhead.
you know your logic and arguments are based on weak premises (abc/tangential) and you admit he doesn't have the appearances to have garnered feats.I only know one thing that you are being purposely being dense.
yet you want everyone to believe you and accept you at your word.Looks like everyone has already accepted it.
lolYeah, it was my reaction too after reading your post with a big facepalm added.
all right, so, let's see.....
adam punches off their heads. they are invulnerable and can't be transmuted. they have the speed to keep up. (i keep using they because you have been saying all along that adam=marvel in overall power and that much has been stated on panel though if you look at the results of their fights marvel typically comes out on top.) you also claim that adam was depowered when transmuted though never showed proof that adam has ever beed said to be depowered.
well, let's take a look at these issues a little more closely:
let's examine the whole 'true invulnerability' issue. you seem to think there is no way for any of these guys to harm adam. i beg to differ. i agree that harming adam/marvel was pretty difficult but let's look at some wider context first. marvel and his invulnerability was a product of his times. cap specialized in fighting enemies that reflected those times--that is to say he fought guys like cap nazi and 'nippo'. he walked around 'socking' gangsters and laughing off bullets. he called asians yellow monkeys and actually HAD a 'helper/friend/slave' who WAS a monkey (steamboat) and who referred to marvel as 'massah' (african american dialect for master). THAT was the era adam was born into, THAT was the era that first scan of him taking shots from mary and the marvel's was from. he couldn't hurt them, they couldn't hurt him. marvel was an invincible force of good, who fought and represented an invulnerable country. the stories were silly in the extreme and littered with pis that was truly mind boggling. trying to use any feat from THAT era is ridiculous. but, since that's where this all started, very well.
marvel was highly invulnerable to physical attacks, but not perfectly so.
here he is hurt by a rock that is dropped on him by his evil mirror twin who is his equal in every way:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/captainmarvel02329themi.jpg/
here, marvel socks his twin to great effect. the shot ends the fight as the fake marvel is somehow recaptured by the mirror:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/406/captainmarvel02330themi.jpg/
in both cases there is far greater effect caused by blows and objects than was evinced in the adam scans. clear proof marvel, and by extension adam, CAN be affected by physical power.
if that's not enough, ss can always just turn kallark and supes into mammoths:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/mammothf.jpg/
or donkeys. 😐
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/233/donkeyq.jpg/
and THOSE scans come AFTER that initial marvel family scan.
here's a scan from the same book you used early to show how they couldn't hurt each other. sure, they just stood around and hit each other to no effect, but they aren't as invincible from behind (a nice toss by adam though):
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/265/backattackr.jpg/
adam obviously felt that attack and certainly wasn't laughing it off as he did the previous attacks.....
now, those scans alone throw all manner of doubt on adam's/marvel's 'true invulnerability'. but just in case, there is this one, one of my personal faves. here he is being physically crushed and the power of the monster is such that it leaves FINGER DENTS!! 😆
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/194/fingerdents.jpg/
priceless. i wonder if that monster is capable of towing planets too....?
now, let's look at how 'special/unique' this 'true invulnerability' really was. here is ibac. truly invulnerable??
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/233/invulnerableibac.jpg/
TEN BLOWS! (note the asians in the background, one even coloured yellow...)
but pre-crisis was a fickle time. ibac would later be seen to NOT be so invulnerable, but he HAS put cap through his share of trouble and was able to affect him physically on more than one occasion:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/403/ibac2.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/fightao.jpg/
i've said repeatedly throughout this discussion that powers were very often PLOT DRIVEN in the pre-c world. i think those scans CLEARLY bear that out/ continued below.
so, i said we'd take a look at invulnerability. we've seen ibac display it. these guys are even better. completely invulnerable. we also see how marvel does against energy attacks: 😂
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/aliens1.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/152/aliens2.jpg/
he was down for a number of PANELS! 😂 i'll go out on a limb and suggest that ss is probably capable of equalling that type of power output. also a great speed feat for the little guys! priceless.....
and in case we think the alien invulnerability was a fluke:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/339/aliens3u.jpg/
and THIS is the type of stuff you want to extrapolate from?? lol
so, there is CERTAINLY a GREAT chance that BOTH guys could affect adam physically. especially at a time when marvel and adam were shown to have barely planetary levels of strength. their strength changed later, but it remained inconsistent in the pre-c days. if you want to look at pre-c, you better be willing to accept the good AND the bad.
now, as far as OTHER ways the team could win. you made repeated claims about adam's/marvel's ability to resist transmutation. well, let's take a peek, shall we:
now these first couple were magically based, but i included them anyway. the powers were HARDLY herald level spells as you shall see (lol) and serve to show that marvel/adam certainly have some vulnerability (i guess these guys>>shazam??):
this one is AWESOME! it's called the CLUCK-EYED CURSE:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/cluckeye.jpg/
and what did it cause marvel to do??
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/cluckeye.jpg/
LMAO!! when he tackled that lady is almost crippled myself. i LOVE his eyes!
here again, magic transmutation:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/833/turnedtotree.jpg/
again, just some random hack, shouting out spells. not exactly dr strange....
lest people think it is JUST magic that can affect him though:
here he was pushed by a regular guy!! into a box and he is duplicated!:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/262/duplicated.jpg/
he was actually duped several times by that machine....
and here again he is SHRUNK (great and EASY option for ss):
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/843/shrunk.jpg/
here again the marvel clan is immobilised by a simple tractor beam then caught in suspendium and held there for 20 YEARS!
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/13/tractorbeamsuspended.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/11/tractorbeam2.jpg/
ss REALLY can't duplicate a tractor beam??
here again marvel is hurt--and admits that he is mortal and can be KILLED by mr mind's power! (greatest villain ever--nothing quite as intimidating as an evil WORM!! lol):
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/545/killhim.jpg/
again, priceless. remember, you guys wanted to get into this pre-c thing..... but you're right--the characters ARE that old.....
continued below....
this is FUN!! last one.
in the event that you don't like THOSE as options for taking down adam/marvel, i guess they could always resort to THIS never-failed-attack:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/138/tickled.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/534/tickled2.jpg/
it cost him an attempt to save the country!! lol luckily the bomb proved to be a dud!
but yeah, today's issues of PIS are just as bad. lol
you also mentioned about combat speed, and how adam/marvel could easily match them. welllllllll............. let's look at how fast marvel and adam really are!
these scans speak for themselves....
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/captainmarvel02308theli.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/96/adamtoofast.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/189/slow1.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/822/slow2f.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/208/speed2eg.jpg/
that last one is sooooo good...... 😂
but yeah, because you showed one scan of them being able to FLY in a straight line at light speed, it overshadows ALL these feats.
there are so many like that i could have filled 10 posts! but those serve to get across what i've been saying all along--pre-c is RIDICULOUS. over time it became slightly less so, but the powers were STILL largely plot based and later feats do NOT wipe out earlier ones in pre-c. again, you take the good WITH the bad, not one OVER the other.
adam had so few appearances he never had a chance to develop the weaknessed cap showed. he WAS killed in his first issue by BEING TRICKED INTO SAYING SHAZAM! so dumb..... but THAT is the adam you want to go all 'true invulnerability' about??
again, ridiculous. marvel COULD be affected physically by beings FAR less powerful than glads and supes. he COULD be transmuted and was, multiple times. he WAS slow (though he did show bullet speed but had trouble chasing the bullet down....)
but pre-c really wasn't all that inconsistent? c'mon, peddle THAT nonsense somewhere else.
adam DID undergo something marvel didn't though--resurrection. aftre his death sivana raised him and took away his age-related weakness. my question is if THAT weakness was removed, what's to say his weakness from being outside his universe wasn't?? and i repeat--that weakness was NEVER brought up regarding adam in ANY of his appearances. you have to use a source years removed from his transmutation by kole AND made in reference to marvel. i do not for one second believe he was weakened in those issues you mentioned. the difference in the battles was as likely as reflection of the times and the more serious nature of the stories (no more 'ho-hum' tankings) as it was their being weakened. or maybe marvel WAS weakened, but again, no mention was ever made of that weakness belonging to adam. and ironically--after said weakness was referenced by marvel THEN he had some of his best strength feats!
god bless pre-c.
adam CAN be hurt physically. he CAN be transmuted. he is NOT fast enough to match their speed AND it's debateable that he is stronger than they are (some appearances he might be, others definitely not--there is no precedence of scans in pre-c--ALL are equally valid). you're only fall back might be that these scans all show marvel, not adam. and if that's your stance fine. you're the one who said all along they were equal in every way. and even if that IS your stance, i suspect others will see this and get what i've been saying all along. pre-c is ridiculous and inconsistent and powers are plot driven in ways that they would NEVER be today. no-limits fallacy fails miserably.
oh, and the team throttles him.
it's been fun. 🙂
