PC Black Adam Vs Superman, Gladiator, Silver Surfer

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Leo has been unleashed

😂

it was fun going back and look at those books. i used to have a bunch of shazam stuff but that was a LONG time ago. i knew where to look though and once i started i enjoyed the material so much i just kept reading! those times were something else. my trip back there only served to further convince me that pre-c stuff should never be brought into debates. the disparity in powers of the SAME characters are ludicrous. i could literally show DOZENS of other scans to support my stance but i think those serve the purpose for anyone unbiased enough to see them. and like i said--it was fun. 🙂

Eh, some of the Pre-Crisis stuff was consistent enough if you knew the context. I mean, it was no worse than modern comics with Hulk getting choked by a snake, Spider-Man beating Firelord, etc.

some of the LATER pre-c stuff had some consistency, but power levels were still all over the place and the initial scan that was the basis of the discussion was FROM that early era. there is no chance you'll ever convince me the plotting was as consistent as today though. but whatever.

a quick correction--i duped a scan in there somehow. THIS is the second cluck-eyed curse scan......

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/861/cluckeye2.jpg/

so frickin good.....

Originally posted by Endless Mike Eh, some of the Pre-Crisis stuff was consistent enough if you knew the context. I mean, it was no worse than modern comics with Hulk getting choked by a snake, Spider-Man beating Firelord, etc.

pretty much agree with this. the marvel family were doing insane feats that would place them way above the likes of supes or glads. id place marvel ahead of even sbp.

You should consider using something other than imageshack, it has viruses now

Originally posted by leonidas

it cracks me up that people jizz when they see PC in the title and assume that" no one can beat the pc!!1!" bull. crap.

I agree with you to a point. People do put too much stock in "PC" in front of a hero's name. I laugh out loud (that's old English for lol) whenever I see someone mention "PC GL". But the other side of the coin is that guys like PC Superman were insanely powerful and some do deserve the hype.

(Oh, and people get the same reaction to "skyfather" here as well. ....and to "Thanos"😉

Originally posted by leonidas
all right, so, let's see.....

Yeah, let's see.

adam punches off their heads. they are invulnerable and can't be transmuted. they have the speed to keep up. (i keep using they because you have been saying all along that adam=marvel in overall power and that much has been stated on panel though if you look at the results of their fights marvel typically comes out on top.)

Originally posted by abhilegend
[B][b]MYTH:
Captain marvel was created with flight instead of jumping, so he isn't a complete superman rip-off.
Just like the original Superman who inspired him:

Whiz Comics #2 (Millenium print)
_

WC #3

WC #4

There was no usage of the word "fly" during his early years. Instead, "leap" was the ability used.

For those who don't know, cap started flying in Whiz comics 5. [/B]

in both cases there is far greater effect caused by blows and objects than was evinced in the adam scans. clear proof marvel, and by extension adam, CAN be affected by physical power.

Nope, its like me using these scans to prove that surfer is less durable than black knight and about equal to hawkeye.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/Defenders11-13.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/Defenders11-14.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/Defenders11-17-1.jpg

if that's not enough, ss can always just turn kallark and supes into mammoths:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/mammothf.jpg/

or donkeys. 😐

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/233/donkeyq.jpg/

and THOSE scans come AFTER that initial marvel family scan.

Its just pathetic leo. Using a surprised cap being trampled by a mammoth or being surprisingly thrown out by a donkey when he isn't slightly hurt means he's now less durable?

here's a scan from the same book you used early to show how they couldn't hurt each other. sure, they just stood around and hit each other to no effect, but they aren't as invincible from behind (a nice toss by adam though):

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/265/backattackr.jpg/

😂

Being invulnerable doesn't mean you can't be knocked back from blows. The lengths to what you're reaching here, neither cap nor adam were slightly hurt by their mightiest blows. How strong was cap back in the day at full power? This strong

You can deny all you want.

adam obviously felt that attack and certainly wasn't laughing it off as he did the previous attacks.....

So he could laugh off the most powerful punch from cap without any problem but seeing that he was knocked back means somehow he became weaker? I'm not following your logic here.

now, those scans alone throw all manner of doubt on adam's/marvel's 'true invulnerability'. but just in case, there is this one, one of my personal faves. here he is being physically crushed and the power of the monster is such that it leaves FINGER DENTS!! 😆

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/194/fingerdents.jpg/

priceless. i wonder if that monster is capable of towing planets too....?

Again with early cap stories. That wasn't the "true invulnerable" captain marvel.

now, let's look at how 'special/unique' this 'true invulnerability' really was. here is ibac. truly invulnerable??

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/233/invulnerableibac.jpg/

TEN BLOWS! (note the asians in the background, one even coloured yellow...)

Highly durable, not truly invulnerable.

but pre-crisis was a fickle time. ibac would later be seen to NOT be so invulnerable, but he HAS put cap through his share of trouble and was able to affect him physically on more than one occasion:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/403/ibac2.jpg/

That was an insanely amped Ibac by sivana and all he did was to make cap feel that blow which is shown against Mr. Invincible too.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/fightao.jpg/

This actually hurts your case as cap wasn't shown to be hurt here at all.

i've said repeatedly throughout this discussion that powers were very often PLOT DRIVEN in the pre-c world. i think those scans CLEARLY bear that out/ continued below. [/B]

Hahaha, is that you country1000?

Originally posted by leonidas
so, i said we'd take a look at invulnerability. we've seen ibac display it. these guys are even better. completely invulnerable. we also see how marvel does against energy attacks: 😂

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/aliens1.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/152/aliens2.jpg/

Of course being put down on his ass and sitting down in that position is so hurting for cap. Wow!

he was down for a number of PANELS! 😂 i'll go out on a limb and suggest that ss is probably capable of equalling that type of power output. also a great speed feat for the little guys! priceless.....

Surfer can knock back cap! Congratulations are in order. Should I bring out surfer's speed feats?

and in case we think the alien invulnerability was a fluke:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/339/aliens3u.jpg/

and THIS is the type of stuff you want to extrapolate from?? lol

So, the aliens were highly durable. I can see those aliens vs silver surfer thread soon. What does that have to do with this thread?

so, there is CERTAINLY a GREAT chance that BOTH guys could affect adam physically. especially at a time when marvel and adam were shown to have barely planetary levels of strength. their strength changed later, but it remained inconsistent in the pre-c days. if you want to look at pre-c, you better be willing to accept the good AND the bad.

Yeah, this is clearly just a planetary level feat.

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/?action=view&current=CMA011.jpg

The problem is that you are just bringing out the lowest and highly out of context scans to prove your point and ignore any high level feat or the official ruling as straight up PIS. You know what, its a great type of debating. From now on only these are the indicative of surfer's power and anything else is PIS

Originally posted by abhilegend
[B]Silver surfer owned by shield

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Ownage/SS17_11b.jpg

owned by a brick wall

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Ownage/SS17_12b.jpg

Owned by lockjaw

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Ownage/SS18_11b.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
As you wish

Oh I forgot this

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/37023/1292887-screenshot181_super.jpg

and these too

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/FM_1981_014_04.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/FM_1981_014_05.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_07.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_08.jpg

now, as far as OTHER ways the team could win. you made repeated claims about adam's/marvel's ability to resist transmutation. well, let's take a peek, shall we:

Yeah, let's see.

now these first couple were magically based, but i included them anyway. the powers were HARDLY herald level spells as you shall see (lol) and serve to show that marvel/adam certainly have some vulnerability (i guess these guys>>shazam??):

this one is AWESOME! it's called the CLUCK-EYED CURSE:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/cluckeye.jpg/

and what did it cause marvel to do??

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/cluckeye.jpg/

LMAO!! when he tackled that lady is almost crippled myself. i LOVE his eyes!

here again, magic transmutation:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/833/turnedtotree.jpg/

again, just some random hack, shouting out spells. not exactly dr strange....

Great, now surfer is a magicians too! I mean didn't you see how much magical spells surfer knows! Just a swift shazam lightning transformations away in ROE and any transmutation is gone.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/CMA139-33.jpg

lest people think it is JUST magic that can affect him though:

here he was pushed by a regular guy!! into a box and he is duplicated!:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/262/duplicated.jpg/

he was actually duped several times by that machine....[/quote]

Surfer can duplicate cap! How ingenious of him. How does this helps him though?

and here again he is SHRUNK (great and EASY option for ss):

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/843/shrunk.jpg/

Surfer can shrink people? Scan please or is this another "power cosmic can do anything" episodes? I recall cap gaining his height after saying shazam anyway.

here again the marvel clan is immobilised by a simple tractor beam then caught in suspendium and held there for 20 YEARS!

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/13/tractorbeamsuspended.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/11/tractorbeam2.jpg/

ss REALLY can't duplicate a tractor beam??

Surfer can create a plot device metal which was created as a hand-wave to solve the in-continuity problem of how marvels were inactive for 20 years? Because they were caught before any one "react" in the suspendium freezing them. The beam didn't paralyze them.

here again marvel is hurt--and admits that he is mortal and can be KILLED by mr mind's power! (greatest villain ever--nothing quite as intimidating as an evil WORM!! lol):

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/545/killhim.jpg/

Again with early years of cap. Dr sivana disagrees with you though.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/DC_Comics_present025.jpg

again, priceless. remember, you guys wanted to get into this pre-c thing..... but you're right--the characters ARE that old.....

Yeah and that's why we only use their lowest feats and discard any high level feats as PIS country1000 style. How adequate!

continued below.... [/B]

Yeah I think I am seeing a pattern here.

Originally posted by leonidas
this is FUN!! last one.

in the event that you don't like THOSE as options for taking down adam/marvel, i guess they could always resort to THIS never-failed-attack:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/138/tickled.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/534/tickled2.jpg/

Adam can always use a brick against surfer or simply armbar him.

it cost him an attempt to save the country!! lol luckily the bomb proved to be a dud!

😂

but yeah, today's issues of PIS are just as bad. lol

Match this

http://i47.tinypic.com/14o7p1g.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/ff8xuv.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/dljr61.jpg

you also mentioned about combat speed, and how adam/marvel could easily match them. welllllllll............. let's look at how fast marvel and adam really are!

these scans speak for themselves....

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/captainmarvel02308theli.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/96/adamtoofast.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/189/slow1.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/822/slow2f.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/208/speed2eg.jpg/

that last one is sooooo good...... 😂

A bunch of nonsensical low showings?

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/CMA100_27.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/CMA005.jpg
Someone who can go FTL in a split second can at least keep with everyone here.

but yeah, because you showed one scan of them being able to FLY in a straight line at light speed, it overshadows ALL these feats.

Aren’t you the same guy who was defending thor despite him having almost no speed feats on par with speedsters like superman or gladiator? What changed?

there are so many like that i could have filled 10 posts! but those serve to get across what i've been saying all along--pre-c is RIDICULOUS. over time it became slightly less so, but the powers were STILL largely plot based and later feats do NOT wipe out earlier ones in pre-c. again, you take the good WITH the bad, not one OVER the other.

If all are as ridiculous and laughable, spare me the experience. Shall we do that with everyone here?

adam had so few appearances he never had a chance to develop the weaknessed cap showed. he WAS killed in his first issue by BEING TRICKED INTO SAYING SHAZAM! so dumb..... but THAT is the adam you want to go all 'true invulnerability' about??

Hahaha, he was reduced to dust because he was 5000 years old at the time. Just laughable leo, guess everyone here is going to talk a bit and adam says his word again. 😂

again, ridiculous. marvel COULD be affected physically by beings FAR less powerful than glads and supes. he COULD be transmuted and was, multiple times. he WAS slow (though he did show bullet speed but had trouble chasing the bullet down....)

No he couldn’t be affected unless we’re talking about early golden age cap. Magical transmutation and on one odd ocassion shrinked, but that’s neither here nor there. Its like saying because Atom shrinked superman so surfer can do the same. Totally different powers unless surfer has some scans of shrinking someone. He was FTL.

but pre-c really wasn't all that inconsistent? c'mon, peddle THAT nonsense somewhere else.

Yeah, like today’s characters’ aren’t inconsistent. Surfer battles Thor evenly and then gets manhandled by worthy attuma, superman moves earth and then strains moving a pyramid, gladiator is the king of inconsistencies etc.

adam DID undergo something marvel didn't though--resurrection. aftre his death sivana raised him and took away his age-related weakness. my question is if THAT weakness was removed, what's to say his weakness from being outside his universe wasn't?? and i repeat--that weakness was NEVER brought up regarding adam in ANY of his appearances. you have to use a source years removed from his transmutation by kole AND made in reference to marvel. i do not for one second believe he was weakened in those issues you mentioned. the difference in the battles was as likely as reflection of the times and the more serious nature of the stories (no more 'ho-hum' tankings) as it was their being weakened. or maybe marvel WAS weakened, but again, no mention was ever made of that weakness belonging to adam. and ironically--after said weakness was referenced by marvel THEN he had some of his best strength feats!

Sivana resurrected him in his mortal form and the weakness in other universes come into play after that. You are taking it at country1000 level again. Feats are feats, refernces in canon books are canon. You can believe anything you want and unless you have a proof it means squat.

god bless pre-c.

Yeah, where only low feats of characters matters, all of high end feats are because stories demanded them and people were stupid and yet the feats from the same age for marvel characters are readily accepted. God bless marvel comics.

adam CAN be hurt physically.

it's been fun. 🙂

Not to me, seeing you stoop down to country1000 level is sad.

You do know that Surfer was just pretending to be knocked out by the Mexicans because he didn't want to fight, right?

Also the Iron Man black hole thing was actually scientifically consistent, as a micro black hole will decay and explode like that from Hawking radiation.

As an aside, I love the giant sign stuck to the planet in that Captain Marvel Scan 😆

Originally posted by abhilegend
Adam can always use a brick against surfer or simply armbar him.

😂

Match this

http://i47.tinypic.com/14o7p1g.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/ff8xuv.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/dljr61.jpg

A bunch of nonsensical low showings?

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/CMA100_27.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/CMA005.jpg
Someone who can go FTL in a split second can at least keep with everyone here.

Aren’t you the same guy who was defending thor despite him having almost no speed feats on par with speedsters like superman or gladiator? What changed?

If all are as ridiculous and laughable, spare me the experience. Shall we do that with everyone here?

Hahaha, he was reduced to dust because he was 5000 years old at the time. Just laughable leo, guess everyone here is going to talk a bit and adam says his word again. 😂

No he couldn’t be affected unless we’re talking about early golden age cap. Magical transmutation and on one odd ocassion shrinked, but that’s neither here nor there. Its like saying because Atom shrinked superman so surfer can do the same. Totally different powers unless surfer has some scans of shrinking someone. He was FTL.

Yeah, like today’s characters’ aren’t inconsistent. Surfer battles Thor evenly and then gets manhandled by worthy attuma, superman moves earth and then strains moving a pyramid, gladiator is the king of inconsistencies etc.

Sivana resurrected him in his mortal form and the weakness in other universes come into play after that. You are taking it at country1000 level again. Feats are feats, refernces in canon books are canon. You can believe anything you want and unless you have a proof it means squat.

Yeah, where only low feats of characters matters, all of high end feats are because stories demanded them and people were stupid and yet the feats from the same age for marvel characters are readily accepted. God bless marvel comics.

Not by these peeps. Surfer casting magical spells and shrinking rays MIGHT be able to do something. He’s fast enough to keep up with them just like thor does. Absolutely not. When someone in high herlad category does this call me
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/CMA011.jpg
They are equal in every way.

Again country1000 level debating. I can as easily substitute modern age for silver age here. At least they didn’t make a joke of black holes

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/Ironboy/iron%20man/IM_26_DCP_029.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/Ironboy/iron%20man/IM_26_DCP_030.jpg

Yeah, unless he koes them with one punch each.

Not to me, seeing you stoop down to country1000 level is sad.

hrm. you have me completely reconsidering what i said in that bz thread, unfortunately....

i wish i could say you showed me....anything really. you criticize because you claim that was all golden age crap, then conveniently forget the scan that started the whole thing WAS from that era. and on top of it you show a scan of him pushing a star (lol) from that era as well! so now he was hitting adam with the force to blow up stars! good one. and glads always punches with force to blow up planets country..... 👆

you're also asking me to prove a negative (that black adam does NOT have a weakness. not how it works champ, you prove he DOES have one, and you can't aside from your abc logic. why? because no weakness has EVER BEEN STATED IN ANY BOOK EVER) .

the displayed invulnerability changed DRAMATICALLY over time. the way the powers were portrayed changed DRAMATICALLY over time. pushing around a dead star?? lol sure, i'll buy that. he pushed on the side of a star (hilarious) that certainly didn't appear very large. that doesn't change ANY of what i showed. in any way. at all. except to further highlight the absurdity of using feats from the ear to support any stance and my assertion that the era was pis heaven. but good job for criticizing the era then pulling a scan from it to support your stance. 🙂

feel free to show every single low ball feat of ss you'd like--the difference is simple--the feats i showed were NOT LOW BALL FEATS! the fact that you think they are is telling of your knowledge of the era YOU guys started with!! lol you even specifically INSULTED ME and told me the "CHARACTER IS THAT OLD!!!11!" 😂

and NOW you have the gall to criticize ME for showing scans from back then THAT ACTUALLY SET THE CONTEXT FOR THE PERIOD IN WHICH THIS SUPPOSED INVULNERABILITY WAS ESTABLISHED??!

THAT is truly amazing.

but, like i said, if you go back and look, there are feats WAY worse then the ones i showed! WAY more ludicrous. you're ACTUALLY, honestly, trying to compare feats of pis from current books to THAT stuff?? you're really just sort of bitter huh? i really don't get why you're so blind to the no-limits fallacy you're trying to subject everyone to though, why you can't just ADMIT--"yes, i am using no limits fallacy based on an EXTREMELY LIMITED body of evidence and abc logic". is it that galling to admit? or to admit that all you've really used is ABC logic (something i've seen you criticize others for using)? you showed shazam unable to harm adam. i show some random guy turning marvel into a tree. random guy>>>shazam? and yes that was from the SAME time period almost precisely.

as i said, feel free to use silver age ss stuff--i don't care. at the time odin=galactus. things CHANGE. powers are redefined. the same happened with adam and marvel. but you don't want to accept that. you want to apply your abc logic (i laughed when i saw digi mention that) and your no-limits fallacy to say the characters' powers and how they were displayed could NOT have changed over the course of about 30yrs. meh, believe what you want--at this point i no longer care. the fact that you can look at those scans and STILL say that pis today is as bad as it was then, says more than i ever could about the desperation of your stance.

oh and nice job of bringing in thor--if you read what i said, i said thor CAN be blitzed, but he is durable enough to withstand and answer back. he couldn't here, specially after supes is super sun-dipped. and yeah, ss can shrink things. he even shrunk himself into the microverse.

once again no proof adam was weakened when kole transmuted him, and no reason to think even if he wasn't ss couldn't affect him based on what i showed of marvel. oh, and a hearty lol at your comparing ss's output to the output of that alien gun though!! do you reread your posts? you showed--again--no proof he can't be transmuted, shrunk or bfr'd (he headed to roe to attack shazam, not to use the rock as his personal busstop--something he could not do....), no proof he was much stronger--if any--than these guys aside from your own abc logic. then, when abc logic is used against you, you don't like it, call it low balling, whatever. then you go on and high ball everything, THEN highball OTHERS' feats to support the guy who HAS no feats to support your no-limits fallacy. 😐

very sound debating strategy. fraid i'm done with this though. can't really argue with someone who clings to no-limits, uses abc at every turn and asks me to prove a negative. too bad you didn't have fun. i did. 🙂

Originally posted by Endless Mike
You do know that Surfer was just pretending to be knocked out by the Mexicans because he didn't want to fight, right?

Also the Iron Man black hole thing was actually scientifically consistent, as a micro black hole will decay and explode like that from Hawking radiation.

As an aside, I love the giant sign stuck to the planet in that Captain Marvel Scan 😆

👆

and of course ss allowed the armbar to happen too.... i should post the scan of old marvel going through a black hole to see just how 'unrealistic' that ironman reference was. it's hilarious. literally a tunnel in the sky that takes him to a world that HAD to be lsd inspired.... 😂

Originally posted by leonidas
hrm. you have me completely reconsidering what i said in that bz thread, unfortunately....

As my previous assessment of yours my friend, but don't worry I wouldn't change my opinion by one thread.

i wish i could say you showed me....anything really.

Originally posted by abhilegend
[B]Seriousy leo, this is how their fights went into Earth-S.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/Shazam_28_10.jpg

This is how their fight went in Earth-one

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/DC_Presents_49_22.jpg

You want to tell me that they weren't depowered even now?

Here is the proof that the the treasury edition you mentioned was canon

you criticize because you claim that was all golden age crap, then conveniently forget the scan that started the whole thing WAS from that era.

and on top of it you show a scan of him pushing a star (lol) from that era as well! so now he was hitting adam with the force to blow up stars! good one. and glads always punches with force to blow up planets country..... 👆

Unless you think gladiator explicitly stating that he is using his mightiest punch isn't using his full strength, then yes he is using force that in MULTIPLE blows broke a planet of unknown size.

you're also asking me to prove a negative (that black adam does NOT have a weakness.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/mammothf.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/233/donkeyq.jpg/

I don't know what to do seeing these scans, laugh or be amused that you didn't even read the scans you posted.

not how it works champ, you prove he DOES have one, and you can't aside from your abc logic. why? because no weakness has EVER BEEN STATED IN ANY BOOK EVER) .

Hahaha, not really. But go on and pretend that the scans I posted doesn't exist because let me see "They are from a treasury book, No they are 3 years old, No they can't be used because.....". I really hope this isn't your best argument leo.

[quote]the displayed invulnerability changed DRAMATICALLY over time.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/MarvelFamily001_017.jpg

And this happened in Shazam 28 in 1976

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/Shazam_28_10.jpg

*GASP* How much has it changed?

the way the powers were portrayed changed DRAMATICALLY over time.

It was around the same time when all this happened.

pushing around a dead star?? lol sure, i'll buy that. he pushed on the side of a star (hilarious) that certainly didn't appear very large.

that doesn't change ANY of what i showed. in any way. at all. except to further highlight the absurdity of using feats from the ear to support any stance and my assertion that the era was pis heaven. but good job for criticizing the era then pulling a scan from it to support your stance. 🙂

Yeah that thing is sure PIS because you can't push a dead condensed star, right? But this isn't PIS, right?

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/drax/draxstarbusting.jpg

😂

feel free to show every single low ball feat of ss you'd like--the difference is simple--the feats i showed were NOT LOW BALL FEATS! the fact that you think they are is telling of your knowledge of the era YOU guys started with!!

lol you even specifically INSULTED ME and told me the "CHARACTER IS THAT OLD!!!11!" 😂

Where did I insult you? That was because of this

Originally posted by leonidas
you cling to a single 70yr old scan.

What would've I said instead mind you?

and NOW you have the gall to criticize ME for showing scans from back then THAT ACTUALLY SET THE CONTEXT FOR THE PERIOD IN WHICH THIS SUPPOSED INVULNERABILITY WAS ESTABLISHED??!

Context? You showed a bunch of scans which were from before the time his invulnerability was established and pretend that its true for everything and any higher showing is PIS. Anybody who knows the truth would criticize you at such an attempt.

THAT is truly amazing.

Yeah, you are AMAZING.baka

but, like i said, if you go back and look, there are feats WAY worse then the ones i showed! WAY more ludicrous. you're ACTUALLY, honestly, trying to compare feats of pis from current books to THAT stuff??

you're really just sort of bitter huh?

i really don't get why you're so blind to the no-limits fallacy you're trying to subject everyone to though, why you can't just ADMIT--"yes, i am using no limits fallacy based on an EXTREMELY LIMITED body of evidence and abc logic".

is it that galling to admit? or to admit that all you've really used is ABC logic (something i've seen you criticize others for using)?

you showed shazam unable to harm adam. i show some random guy turning marvel into a tree. random guy>>>shazam?

and yes that was from the SAME time period almost precisely.

Ok. How does that changes things?

as i said, feel free to use silver age ss stuff--i don't care. at the time odin=galactus. things CHANGE. powers are redefined. the same happened with adam and marvel.

but you don't want to accept that. you want to apply your abc logic (i laughed when i saw digi mention that) and your no-limits fallacy to say the characters' powers and how they were displayed could NOT have changed over the course of about 30yrs.

meh, believe what you want--at this point i no longer care./quote] Good for your blood-pressure. [quote]the fact that you can look at those scans and STILL say that pis today is as bad as it was then, says more than i ever could about the desperation of your stance.

😂 Like I said when you find the equivalent of cap knocking out hulk with straight punches in silver age or golden age, call me.

oh and nice job of bringing in thor--if you read what i said, i said thor CAN be blitzed, but he is durable enough to withstand and answer back.

he couldn't here, specially after supes is super sun-dipped.

and yeah, ss can shrink things. he even shrunk himself into the microverse.

once again no proof adam was weakened when kole transmuted him,

and no reason to think even if he wasn't ss couldn't affect him based on what i showed of marvel.

oh, and a hearty lol at your comparing ss's output to the output of that alien gun though!!

do you reread your posts?

you showed--again--no proof he can't be transmuted, shrunk or bfr'd (he headed to roe to attack shazam, not to use the rock as his personal busstop--something he could not do....),

Surfer can shrink him and get a punch in the mouth at the same force, since you know his strength would remain the same.

Really?

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/Shazam_28_28.jpg

This is just laughable now.

no proof he was much stronger--if any--than these guys aside from your own abc logic.

then, when abc logic is used against you, you don't like it, call it low balling, whatever.

then you go on and high ball everything, THEN highball OTHERS' feats to support the guy who HAS no feats to support your no-limits fallacy. 😐

very sound debating strategy. fraid i'm done with this though. can't really argue with someone who clings to no-limits, uses abc at every turn and asks me to prove a negative. too bad you didn't have fun. i did. 🙂 [/B]

Yeah, I like my strategy very much, thank you very much. I wouldn't hold you for this anyway. Yeah, using country1000's logic is fun where you can dismiss any showing you don't like. Yeah, I didn't have fun, I hope this doesn't happen in our future debates.

has superman and ever been depicted as anything but complete equals in strength? not in combat that's for sure. and pushing a star (lol) is likely as good as ANY feat supes has. yet superman was SAID to be stronger than adam.

adam<marvel

wonderwoman and marvel have been shown to be equal as well--hell ww once had the upperhand on him, yet ww<superman but apparently ww=ba

abc logic for the fail. so long as that is the route you continue to take in debates, this WILL happen again and again....

and i was talking about their fight where you said they were both 'weakned'....

cap was NOT invulnerable to physical harm in any way close to the way he ho-hummed adam's blows. adam's extremely rare appearances are NOT enough to go on.

but carry on. i'd love to bz the topic with you and see what some knowledgeable posters have to say on the issue and the way you made your case. or maybe ask a mod to rule on the issue using the info in this thread. maybe they'd see it your way, who knows..... but i doubt it.

Originally posted by leonidas
has superman and ever been depicted as anything but complete equals in strength? not in combat that's for sure. and pushing a star (lol) is likely as good as ANY feat supes has. yet superman was SAID to be stronger than adam.

Who is said to be equal to superman in strength?😕

adam<marvel

but carry on. i'd love to bz the topic with you and see what some knowledgeable posters have to say on the issue and the way you made your case. or maybe ask a mod to rule on the issue using the info in this thread. maybe they'd see it your way, who knows..... but i doubt it.

Ok. Once I am free from my high herald match, I would battlezone you upon it.

Current Supes had trouble with OMAC in strength. Adam destroys him and Gladiator.

^talking about pre-reboot superman....

regardless, a bz on this topic would be fine with me. let me know when you want to do it.

^After my high herald match i.e. after two weeks.