Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Lets just keep this thread going 4eva
Cosmic Armor Superman is the actual story itself, Thanos is nothing but a small component of Marvel's story.
Superman's story embodies all of Marvel, as Marvel drew much of its inspiration from Superman and DC.
Thus Cosmic Superman is empowered by all of Marvel in addition to every source of fiction that has drawn from his "story". Thanos is nothing more than a piece of Cosmic Armor Superman's existance.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
This has always been the dumbest thing ever.It doesn't matter if his power was limited to a planet as long as he can beat everything in the universe and Living Tribunal at the same time.
Originally posted by Board Walker
Cosmic Armor Superman is the actual story itself, Thanos is nothing but a small component of Marvel's story.Superman's story embodies all of Marvel, as Marvel drew much of its inspiration from Superman and DC.
Thus Cosmic Superman is empowered by all of Marvel in addition to every source of fiction that has drawn from his "story". Thanos is nothing more than a piece of Cosmic Armor Superman's existance.
Wow I bet you must have a drawer filled with Underoos.
Its a bit muddy up here, but the Thought Robot is likely the most powerful character we've encountered so far. But I understand the viewpoint where someone doesn't want to suggest that he would be above someone like TOAA as well, so if you disagree, I wouldn't really argue it as it would be a bit like debating against someone's subscribed religion.
Tribunal is recognized often as second only to TOAA, but that doesn't make him anywhere near the Thought Robot by default. He's a construct for the multiverse to protect and judge over it for the One Above All.
The One Above All's opposite has always been thought to be The Presence/Yahweh, who made all Creation. So far from what we know, Mandrakk was not created by that being, it was created by a being so infinitely bigger it didn't even notice The Presence's creation expanding infinitely for billions of years. And Mandrakk alone was more powerful than anything creation had to offer, beside the Thought Robot/Cosmic Armor/Living Story. Even the weaker second version of Mandrakk without even a fraction of the originals power was so strong that the multiversal monitor even brought the armies of the Presence and The Logoz to take part in the battle against it. [though the rushed ending was a bit corny, tbh, the implied power was all that might was needed]
It's a matter of changed goalposts/perspective.
Because DCU isn't built from the top down in a decending ladder or staircase. It's created from Superman's story, and spirals out. This is what Alexander Luthor realized in Infinite Crisis.
Even with a move to suggest that TOAA moved to be akin to Primal Monitor instead, and Tribunal to be equal to ???[Spectre? Nix Uotan?], the thought Robot was radically stronger than both and all the rest of creation.
Based on what we know, it's easy to extrapolate that the Thought Robot is rather easily considerably higher than even Michael Demiurgos or Lucifer, who are closer to Pre-Retcon Beyonder in power. -- Beyonder had to use most of his power to kill the concept of Death, and feared he wouldn't have enough power to undo it, a feat that either of those two could accomplish before their morning cup of tea.
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Still people miss the point that LT is TOAAs servant and TOAA is the one giving and taking his power. IF TOAA wants to teach someone a lesson and it requires LT to loose he will make sure LT loses.
That's true.
It's basically the same thing that happened in DC with Spectre and the ALE/Spear of Destiny issue. 👆
Originally posted by Juntai
Its a bit muddy up here, but the Thought Robot is likely the most powerful character we've encountered so far. But I understand the viewpoint where someone doesn't want to suggest that he would be above someone like TOAA as well, so if you disagree, I wouldn't really argue it as it would be a bit like debating against someone's subscribed religion.Tribunal is recognized often as second only to TOAA, but that doesn't make him anywhere near the Thought Robot by default. He's a construct for the multiverse to protect and judge over it for the One Above All.
The One Above All's opposite has always been thought to be The Presence/Yahweh, who made all Creation. So far from what we know, Mandrakk was not created by that being, it was created by a being so infinitely bigger it didn't even notice The Presence's creation expanding infinitely for billions of years. And Mandrakk alone was more powerful than anything creation had to offer, beside the Thought Robot/Cosmic Armor/Living Story. Even the weaker second version of Mandrakk without even a fraction of the originals power was so strong that the multiversal monitor even brought the armies of the Presence and The Logoz to take part in the battle against it. [though the rushed ending was a bit corny, tbh, the implied power was all that might was needed]It's a matter of changed goalposts/perspective.
Because DCU isn't built from the top down in a decending ladder or staircase. It's created from Superman's story, and spirals out. This is what Alexander Luthor realized in Infinite Crisis.
Even with a move to suggest that TOAA moved to be akin to Primal Monitor instead, and Tribunal to be equal to ???[Spectre? Nix Uotan?], the thought Robot was radically stronger than both and all the rest of creation.
Based on what we know, it's easy to extrapolate that the Thought Robot is rather easily considerably higher than even Michael Demiurgos or Lucifer, who are closer to Pre-Retcon Beyonder in power. -- Beyonder had to use most of his power to kill the concept of Death, and feared he wouldn't have enough power to undo it, a feat that either of those two could accomplish before their morning cup of tea.
^Excellent. 👆
That's why, in my previous posts, while trying to explain what the CA was and what its purpose was, I many times stated that if you truly grasp the level of power of concepts such as PM/Dax/CA, you can not help but feel literally overwhelmed (or, at least, it's what I personally felt, and it has been the first and only time it happened to me while reading a book or manga).
It's really something immense.
Originally posted by JuntaiThought Robot is likely the most powerful character we've encountered so far.
Originally posted by JuntaiThe One Above All's opposite has always been thought to be The Presence/Yahweh
TOAA in Marvel is the representative avatars of the writers/artists.
I've only seen Morrison in "Animal Man" as akin to TOAA. ... There's also that "Carlin" depiction.
The Presence itself, is based on a twisted fictional rendition of the Bible.
Originally posted by JuntaiEven with a move to suggest that TOAA moved to be akin to Primal Monitor instead
Originally posted by JuntaiMichael Demiurgos or Lucifer, who are closer to Pre-Retcon Beyonder in power.
Originally posted by JuntaiBeyonder had to use most of his power to kill the concept of Death,
and feared he wouldn't have enough power to undo it
First: Beyonder had limited his powers greatly by the tie-ins (other titles) to SWII #1.
Therefore the Beyonder we witnessed till the ending of the last issue SWII #9, was always a limited Beyonder.
Second: Beyonder was Never drained, or said he was drained, and he Never said he used almost all his power to kill Death.
Beyonder said, "a lot of my power is in that cup"
(ok, What does that mean? How much power is that?) hm
I'll answer that below.
Third: Beyonder re-created Death easily!
He did so the only way possible, (which was supposed to be "impossible" since the Concept of "Death" was erased)
and that is ... by Kill something, in order to re-create the Concept of Death.
Hence, Dave gets killed via Beyonder's touch, when Owen with All his power (above the LT) couldn't crush a flower. lol!
Finally: So, how much power did Beyonder use to kill Death?
Well remember, this is Beyonder with self-imposed limitations, so that's that. But that aside:
My friends, here's proof that the "enormous amount of energy" Beyonder used to kill Miss Death,
... was nothing more than a "Fraction of his power"
--------------------------------------------------
This is definitely why afterwards ol miss Death shits in her pants around Beyonder:
Originally posted by Mr MasterMephisto says: "So potent is this fraction of his power..."
My friends, here's proof that the "enormous amount of energy" Beyonder used to kill Miss Death,... was nothing more than [b]a "Fraction of his power"
Technically, 99/100(99%) would still be considered a "fraction." So that bit of dialogue is ambiguous and up to individual interpretation.
However, I do agree that the bulk of his power was definitely not in that cup, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to resurrect Death so easily.
Originally posted by Juntai
Its a bit muddy up here, but the Thought Robot is likely the most powerful character we've encountered so far. But I understand the viewpoint where someone doesn't want to suggest that he would be above someone like TOAA as well, so if you disagree, I wouldn't really argue it as it would be a bit like debating against someone's subscribed religion.Tribunal is recognized often as second only to TOAA, but that doesn't make him anywhere near the Thought Robot by default. He's a construct for the multiverse to protect and judge over it for the One Above All.
The One Above All's opposite has always been thought to be The Presence/Yahweh, who made all Creation. So far from what we know, Mandrakk was not created by that being, it was created by a being so infinitely bigger it didn't even notice The Presence's creation expanding infinitely for billions of years. And Mandrakk alone was more powerful than anything creation had to offer, beside the Thought Robot/Cosmic Armor/Living Story. Even the weaker second version of Mandrakk without even a fraction of the originals power was so strong that the multiversal monitor even brought the armies of the Presence and The Logoz to take part in the battle against it. [though the rushed ending was a bit corny, tbh, the implied power was all that might was needed]It's a matter of changed goalposts/perspective.
Because DCU isn't built from the top down in a decending ladder or staircase. It's created from Superman's story, and spirals out. This is what Alexander Luthor realized in Infinite Crisis.
Even with a move to suggest that TOAA moved to be akin to Primal Monitor instead, and Tribunal to be equal to ???[Spectre? Nix Uotan?], the thought Robot was radically stronger than both and all the rest of creation.
Based on what we know, it's easy to extrapolate that the Thought Robot is rather easily considerably higher than even Michael Demiurgos or Lucifer, who are closer to Pre-Retcon Beyonder in power. -- Beyonder had to use most of his power to kill the concept of Death, and feared he wouldn't have enough power to undo it, a feat that either of those two could accomplish before their morning cup of tea.
Great post 👆 . I can agree with 99% of it.
Originally posted by Galan007
Mephisto says: "So potent is this fraction of his power..."Technically, 99/100(99%) would still be considered a "fraction." So that bit of dialogue is ambiguous and up to individual interpretation.
However, I do agree that the bulk of his power was definitely not in that cup, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to resurrect Death so easily.
Not sure how this will work, since I'm on my phone at work...
Pay attention to Beyonders own words.
^^ If we only pay attention to Beyonder's "words" ... we would think he couldn't bring back Death. 😬
Originally posted by Galan007Mephisto says: "So potent is this fraction of his power..."
Technically, 99/100(99%) would still be considered a "fraction." So that bit of dialogue is ambiguous and up to individual interpretation.
Originally posted by Galan007However, I do agree that the bulk of his power was definitely not in that cup,
otherwise he wouldn't have been able to resurrect Death so easily.
Originally posted by JuntaiHe says a lot of his power is in that cup--ambiguous terminology, at best. He then says that he won't be able to bring her back once she's been erased.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111137388/3947001-1819077893-26755.jpgNot sure how this will work, since I'm on my phone at work...
Pay attention to Beyonders own words.
However, his own words were later contradicted when he did recreate Death... And easily so:
So yeah, it was only after he erased AND recreated Death that Beyonder commented on being tired/exhausted... And even then it was just relative exhaustion, as he was still FAR more powerful than the hierarchy/Owen despite his 'diminished' state.
