Kal-L Vs Kingdom Come Superman

Started by biensalsa9 pages

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, most of the things he did were known to the Presence but his will broke free from the plan. That's my point.

Yes, the presence has always been powerful enough to prevent Lucifer from doing so but the fact he escaped his own function proves his will was undeniable.

I just have to ask you, when did He escaped his function? because it was not when He gave up hell for sure and neither when He created the other universe.

Unless you are talking about something else.

Originally posted by the Darkone
Kal-L does, he's just a notch below PC Superman, Kal-L >> KC Superman period

And this seems about right

Originally posted by biensalsa
I just have to ask you, when did He escaped his function? because it was not when He gave up hell for sure and neither when He created the other universe.

Unless you are talking about something else.

When he broke free of his destiny. Lucifer took the necessary steps once he was aware of the Presence's will to escape it. He did so. Lucifer's will was undeniable.

Let's not go here any further. Pm me if you want the battlezone. It'll be a quicker one than usual since it's over an issue not a battle outcome.

PC Ultra Man> PC Superman=PC Captain Marvel=PC Black Adam, PC Superboy Prime> Golden Age Superman>>> KC Superman

KC Superman is good but not that good!!

I don't see anyone voting for KC Superman, so Kal-L wins by a landslide.

Guys, stay on topic please.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
I don't see anyone voting for KC Superman, so Kal-L wins by a landslide.
I was totally behind KC 100%.
But, if you all say Kal-L, then I say fine.

I like what you all like. 🙄

KC Superman

I dont think KC is even stronger than regular Superman

Originally posted by paisapower
I dont think KC is even stronger than regular Superman
What makes you say so ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
What makes you say so ?

Superman seems to do at least as good as KC in The Kingdom

check how Supes recuperates before KC after both being downed by GoG

[/URL][/IMG]

Now in the closest thing to a strength contest between the two look how he overpowers KC and Wonder woman together

[/URL][/IMG]

Originally posted by paisapower
Superman seems to do at least as good as KC in The Kingdom

check how Supes recuperates before KC after both being downed by GoG

[/URL][/IMG]

Now in the closest thing to a strength contest between the two look how he overpowers KC and Wonder woman together

[/URL][/IMG]

Wow really? I missed that part completely.

So KC Superman, WW and others are embracing to save Superman from the suction force of Hypertime and Superman is the one doing the pulling in the end.

I'm sure hypertime suction force helped in the end but Superman pulling 5 characters embraced? Kind of makes you wonder.

Originally posted by biensalsa
Wow really? I missed that part completely.

So KC Superman, WW and others are embracing to save Superman from the suction force of Hypertime and Superman is the one doing the pulling in the end.

I'm sure hypertime suction force helped in the end but Superman pulling 5 characters embraced? Kind of makes you wonder.

Im sure it wasnt that much help since supes was overiding that force with what seemed like not too much effort

[/URL][/IMG]

Kal-L is a pre-crisis Kryptonian. All his feats from pre-crisis and the crisis technically remain canon to him.

People seem to be getting hung up on the fact that even though he technically hasn't had a retcon, he clearly wasn't written at PC levels during his post-crisis appearances.

Honestly though, it's the same thing as using classic showings from various Marvel characters in the same time period. They aren't written at the same level today, but some of the same people who would dismiss Kal-L would have no qualms about using a random one-time classic Thor feat to prove a point if it suited their argument.

/shrug 😬

Originally posted by Cogito
Kal-L is a pre-crisis Kryptonian. All his feats from pre-crisis and the crisis technically remain canon to him.

People seem to be getting hung up on the fact that even though he technically hasn't had a retcon, he clearly wasn't written at PC levels during his post-crisis appearances.

Honestly though, it's the same thing as using classic showings from various Marvel characters in the same time period. They aren't written at the same level today, but some of the same people who would dismiss Kal-L would have no qualms about using a random one-time classic Thor feat to prove a point if it suited their argument.

/shrug 😬

Fair statement. Agreed.

Originally posted by Cogito
Kal-L is a pre-crisis Kryptonian. All his feats from pre-crisis and the crisis technically remain canon to him.

People seem to be getting hung up on the fact that even though he technically hasn't had a retcon, he clearly wasn't written at PC levels during his post-crisis appearances.

Honestly though, it's the same thing as using classic showings from various Marvel characters in the same time period. They aren't written at the same level today, but some of the same people who would dismiss Kal-L would have no qualms about using a random one-time classic Thor feat to prove a point if it suited their argument.

/shrug 😬

Agreed.

Post Crisis and Pre Crisis characters are held to different standards, because they were clearly changed by the crisis. Post crisis Superman is not the same character Earth 1 Superman was, so we must hold them to different standards.

Kal-L wasn't changed by the crisis, because he was trapped outside of its effects.

Although, this technically applies to the New Gods as well...

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, that's fine I am saying he still went all out. Time and space were in a fragile state due to Alexander Luthor's manipulation of reality.

I see many people bring this up to try and dismiss the showing. There was a mention of the fabric being effected, but it also stated that the more worlds there were, the weaker it'd get. And there were MANY more worlds when Black Adam was freed and attacked Superboy Prime, with the intent to kill him. With his equivalent of Zeus-Amped punches. What happened? Nothing. So, what does that say that someone who's allegedly Superman's peer amps the force of his blows when the situation makes the fabric even weaker and still fails to do much of anything? I say it says that people should stop dismissing what Kal-L and Kal-El did.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't gauge this stuff by feats as it simply doesn't add up. You are free to believe feats are more important than I do. I mainly gauge in this instance by peer to peer comparison.

So, what are these comparisons again? The only example I see that people use to argue KC Superman>New Earth Superman is the Hercules comparison. But as Salsa pointed-out, it really looked like a case of New Earth Superman wasn't prepared but KC was. And really, NE Superman has the feats to support this. He's tanked punches from Supergirl, DOS Doomsday, Pocketverse Superboy and more, all who are stronger than Hercules, when he's prepared. And the punch catching KC Superman did? NE Superman has caught Wonder Woman's punch, as well as her full-body charge, with casualness, and while weakened, caught Captain Marvel's punch. And both are stronger than Hercules.

I really do want to see these examples that make you think KC Superman is stronger than NE Superman.

Oh, and if you want to continue where we left off a while back, go ahead and bump the threads and please send me PMs with the links. If you won't, I'll try to get around to it soon.

Originally posted by Cogito
Kal-L is a pre-crisis Kryptonian. All his feats from pre-crisis and the crisis technically remain canon to him.

People seem to be getting hung up on the fact that even though he technically hasn't had a retcon, he clearly wasn't written at PC levels during his post-crisis appearances.

Well, I disagree about what Kal-L was shown to be. I mean, he didn't have all that many appearances after COIE that I'm aware of, but he still had that space/time shattering feat. But also, Kal-L was shown to be at least a notch below Earth-One Superman Pre-CRISIS, so of course he'll look inferior to Superboy Prime who I believe was closer to E1 Supes.

Originally posted by Cogito
Honestly though, it's the same thing as using classic showings from various Marvel characters in the same time period. They aren't written at the same level today, but some of the same people who would dismiss Kal-L would have no qualms about using a random one-time classic Thor feat to prove a point if it suited their argument.

/shrug 😬

This I agree on. There's a pretty consistent hypocrisy by a lot of Marvel fans in stuff like this. Also reminds me of how they try to dismiss speed-blitz arguments by going, "And how often does (Character X That's Not A Member Of The Flash Family) speedblitz?" yet bring-up obscure powers that their preferred character has used once or twice when it helps them, even if the power was used less often than speedblitzing.

Who says Kal-L was written down, and preboot post crisis Superman isn't simply his equal?

It's not like his levels don't vary wildly by story anyways, or that we've ever really seen his upper limit.. Like the man in a story said to another character about another character, "So he has to destroy Earth, before you accept he's capable of destroying Earth?"

Originally posted by paisapower
Superman seems to do at least as good as KC in The Kingdom

check how Supes recuperates before KC after both being downed by GoG

[/URL][/IMG]

Now in the closest thing to a strength contest between the two look how he overpowers KC and Wonder woman together

[/URL][/IMG]

That's not canon.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's not canon.

When did The Kingdom get stricken from canon?