Superman vs Alan Scott

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
My point is Thor is not invulnerable to magic...there are numerous times where magic has wrecked Thor.

There are times where magic has wrecked the SS.

The Hulk can also be wasted by magic.

So can Superman, there's no question about it.

But I've seen Superman shrug off magic far more powerful than magic that has affected a guy like the Hulk, and no one claims Hulk is vulnerable to magic everytime he fights a magic user.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The same magic would wreck Superman more. Thor, Surfer, Hulk never sh1t their proverbial pants when magic is involved. This vulnerability couldn't be more obvious. And the attempts to obfuscate it are downright awful.

Hasn't Thor been one-shot by magic before?

Originally posted by keiththegreat
Hasn't Thor been one-shot by magic before?

Thor's been one shot by fists before. But when he sees them, he doesn't go wide-eyed and monologue about, "Oh no. Fists again! Despite the gifts my Asgardian nature gives me... fists always give me problems! Have to avoid them, fight around them somehow!"

N1gga, please.

lmao

Regardless, it's clear that however the writers choose to display Superman reacting against magic, he's consistently going to be portrayed as being less able to deal with it than his peers and allies.

Actually, I remember him dealing it with better than WW.

On a consistent basis?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
On a consistent basis?

Nothing is really consistent in comic books as everyone here knows, but off of the top of my head, Disciple's magick was so powerful that, even before he was made equal to the Elder Gods he worshiped, he devolved the Earth to where it was millions of years in the past in several aspects, and was able to devolve the JLA members, including those who DO have mystical resistance. When he tried to kill the JLA, Superman walked through his energy "beam"(wasn't a beam, it was way wider, but was continuous) and beat him.

I assumed Keith meant the Disciple incident.

Consistency, however, does exist in comics, and consistently magic is stated or shown to be something that Superman is adversely effected by to whatever degree the writer feels like. Superman having high end feats doesn't change that.

In any case, I'm not really using Superman's variable magic weakness/disadvantage against him as far as Alan is concerned, anyway. Whether it's magic, cosmic, or a combination (which it is in Alan's case), it's clear than Alan himself has the firepower to damage him.

Though, if we did take into the magical aspect, I think a sword manifested from pure Starheart energy could give Kal a grievous injury.

Some other magic resistance feats for Superman: When Shazam himself had come in to save Billy Batson after Eclipso-possessed Superman defeated Captain Marvel, Shazam hit him several times with energy blasts, and still couldn't knock-out or incapacitate Superman, so he had to bring in The Spectre's form(not bounded to a human soul at the time) to force Eclipso out. When Superman was in Blaze's realm, she failed to stop him with her energy blast, him falling into mystical lava(more than once), hitting him with a spell that encased him in stone(he still broke-out) or a spell that was turning him into a demon(his will simply overcame the spell). Osiris failed to kill Superman despite being a death god.

And yeah, I'll admit a good point was made that Superman has numerous feats resisting the effects of kryptonite as well, but he has far more against magic than people think, and like I said, almost every popular herald level hero is not "invulnerable" to magic either, whereas most are invulnerable to kryptonite. Magic is a powerful attack, and not many characters are completely immune to it, including mystical heroes like Thor.

My ONLY point is, people make TOO BIG a deal about magic against Superman, like it's an automatic win, when Superman has resisted magic from beings far more powerful than, Alan Scott, for example.

I've heard people claim Thor's hammer would affect Superman like a normal person being hit by a normal hammer...this would be the definition of a "magic weakness" in my view, but this is CLEARLY not the case for Superman, and there is a TON of evidence that that is not the case.

There is also the Scary monster instance in which IIRC Superman actually held better than all of the JLA members.

And He has outright opposed Spectre enemies and even the Spectre was impressed by it.

Magic lighting from Silver Banshe's clan

Civil war in hell

Batman powered by Magic

War of the Gods

Mordu's blast on the 31st century

He has come out fine out of those instances

Magic is a random force that affects mostly everyone

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
And yeah, I'll admit a good point was made that Superman has numerous feats resisting the effects of kryptonite as well, but he has far more against magic than people think

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
My ONLY point is, people make TOO BIG a deal about magic against Superman, like it's an automatic win, when Superman has resisted magic from beings far more powerful than, Alan Scott, for example.

Battlezone challenge is still open to anybody willing. This argument is stupid. Stupid and ignorant of all the vast evidence there is throughout Superman's appearances. You take away everything that is magical from Wonder Woman and turn all her esoteric abilities/traits/weapons into something more science based (but equally as powerful) and you're gonna believe she'd do just as well?

But I suppose an equally powerful magical Silver Surfer fares no better than a normal Silver Surfer either. And that's why this thread makes me facepalm. Take the premier Green Lantern in your mind (Sinestro, Hal, Kyle, Guy, whatever), pump him with even more self-sustaining power... and he'd be a damn good match for Superman.

Now turn everything about him into raw unbridled magic. That's Alan Scott. And you're gonna sit there and act like that wouldn't make a significant difference? This sh1ts sadder than Thanos stalemated Odin. Believe.

I don't think it's an auto-win for someone if they use magic on Superman. I do think that it becomes a very legitimate factor at higher levels such as Alan's.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

You take away everything that is magical from Wonder Woman and turn all her esoteric abilities/traits/weapons into something more science based (but equally as powerful) and you're gonna believe she'd do just as well?

I'm not saying that at all, but I am claiming that a character like Thor would have just as much trouble with her, as he is also vulnerable to magic. That's my argument. I'm not saying Superman isn't affected by it, but I am saying everyone else is too (for the most part). Hell, Superman has actually been doing better against magical lightning than Thor has recently (which I think is bullsh** by the way). Seeing how Thor did in age of heroes compared to Superman vs SHAZAM.

As the thunder god, I would like to see Thor immune to lightning (I really think he should be). But oh well.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I'm not saying that at all, but I am claiming that a character like Thor would have just as much trouble with her, as he is also vulnerable to magic. That's my argument. I'm not saying Superman isn't affected by it, but I am saying everyone else is too (for the most part). Hell, Superman has actually been doing better against magical lightning than Thor has recently (which I think is bullsh** by the way). Seeing how Thor did in age of heroes compared to Superman vs SHAZAM.

That's wrong. That's unsupported. That's so easily disproven, I can't believe I am even having this discussion. Superman's varied high-end resistance feats to Kryptonite and red sun radiation far outshine any of his magic resistance feats. And none of us delude ourselves into thinking Superman deals with them as equally as anybody else. Somehow, there's been a persistent KMC forum myth that Superman has outgrown his magic vulnerability. Bullshit. Utter bullshit.

Alan Scott has angry rape sex with Superman's corpse.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
He is not equally as vulnerable to magic as Superman. That's spectacularly retarded. You keep trying to feign this measured stance and it doesn't wash because the bottom-line is, no matter how many different ways you try to state it, you're acting like magic isn't a big deal to Superman.

That's wrong. That's unsupported. That's so easily disproven, I can't believe I am even having this discussion. Superman's varied high-end resistance feats to Kryptonite and red sun radiation far outshine any of his magic resistance feats. And none of us delude ourselves into thinking Superman deals with them as equally as anybody else. Somehow, there's been a persistent KMC forum myth that Superman has outgrown his magic vulnerability. Bullshit. Utter bullshit.

You can claim it's retarded all you want, but Superman has taken 6 or 7 magic lightning bolts from SKYFATHERS and not been KO'ed, while Thor has been one shot KO'ed by his own magic lightning (Twice that I know of). There's been several examples posted in this forum of Superman taking magic better than other members of the JLA, and several high end magic resistance feats posted in general. And no one is deluded into thinking Superman does better against kryptonite than other heroes, because most ARE INVULNERABLE to kryptonite, whereas most heroes AREN'T invulnerable to magic. The only thing you keep coming back with is saying magic is a big deal to Superman. I'm not arguing against that, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing it up. I'm saying it's equally a big deal to other heroes that people don't generally think of as vulnerable to magic.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Alan Scott has angry rape sex with Superman's corpse.

It's not DCnU Alan Scott.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's not DCnU Alan Scott.

Alan writes a sequel to Willpower, and drops it on Superman's domepiece.