Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
And no one is deluded into thinking Superman does better against kryptonite than other heroes, because most ARE INVULNERABLE to kryptonite, whereas most heroes AREN'T invulnerable to magic. The only thing you keep coming back with is saying magic is a big deal to Superman. I'm not arguing against that, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing it up. I'm saying it's equally a big deal to other heroes that people don't generally think of as vulnerable to magic.
Well said.
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
And no one is deluded into thinking Superman does better against kryptonite than other heroes, because most ARE INVULNERABLE to kryptonite, whereas most heroes AREN'T invulnerable to magic. The only thing you keep coming back with is saying magic is a big deal to Superman. I'm not arguing against that, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing it up. I'm saying it's equally a big deal to other heroes that people don't generally think of as vulnerable to magic
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Originally posted by PillarofOsirisThat's phucking retarded and delusional. Thor doesn't wilt against hellfire like Superman has. Surfer doesn't need a Phantom Stranger's protective blessing to take on an Arion-level sorcerer like Loki. Superman gets filleted by mystically enchanted blades unlike Hulk who no sells Dragonfang. FFS, Wolverine and Ult. Cap bust out of vampirism using their healing factors and Superman doesn't.
The only thing you keep coming back with is saying magic is a big deal to Superman. I'm not arguing against that, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing it up. I'm saying it's equally a big deal to other heroes that people don't generally think of as vulnerable to magic.
Then again, I remember you arguing that Superman does a hell of a lot better than WWH does against Zeus. Why should I expect any better?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That's phucking retarded and delusional. Thor doesn't wilt against hellfire like Superman has. Surfer doesn't need a Phantom Stranger's protective blessing to take on an Arion-level sorcerer like Loki. Superman gets filleted by mystically enchanted blades unlike Hulk who no sells Dragonfang. FFS, Wolverine and Ult. Cap bust out of vampirism using their healing factors and Superman doesn't.Then again, I remember you arguing that Superman does a hell of a lot better than WWH does against Zeus. Why should I expect any better?
Superman has a better track record against skyfathers than the Hulk, that's a simple fact that is easy to prove. Notice I never said Superman is beating Zeus.
And again, you keep pointing out examples of magic being effective against Superman, and I keep telling you I agree that it is effective against him. And being cut by a mystically enchanted blade...well, that's what a mystically enchanted blade is supposed to do. I highly doubt Hulk isn't getting cut by the same blade, considering we've seen him cut by bone, and less. There are TONS of examples of magic hurting Hulk. You bring up one example to the contrary, which isn't nearly as impressive as some of Superman's magic resistance feats presented here.
Again, comics are inconsistent by their very nature. You show an example of him doing better against magical cutting, I can show one with magical energy. Yes...He's no selled dragon fang, but just like Thor, he's been one-shot KO'ed by Thor's lightning, whereas, like I said, Superman has taken multiple blasts of magic lightning from skyfathers.
^ This isn't inconsistency. Superman is consistently been portrayed as having trouble with magic. When he fights through it, it comes with considerable fanfare and accolades. The same way when Captain America fights through it. It's an "oh shit!" moment, not a "meh, that's how it's supposed to work like Thor" moment. Which is why people like you collect and cling to those feats like they were nuggets of gold dripping with pussy juice. You wanna do a battlezone over this sh1t or not?
Because you're one of two things: (i) balls-to-the-wall ignorant of the numerous times Superman is implied, stated and shown to be vulnerable to magic; or (ii) just pretending like you don't know it to fake an argument.
The only way I'm going to spend the time gathering scans to either cure your utter ignorance or deal with your garbage is in a battlezone. The fact that you're actually insinuating that Superman's vulnerability as opposed to Thor's, Surfer's and Hulk's is some one off type of thing is insulting.
You're completely ass-backwards on this. Superman being notably not super vulnerable is the one off instance type of thing. Not the other way around. smh
Originally posted by biensalsaThe fact that the second scan literally has Superman stating, "Lightning's never hurt me like that before!" somehow is supposed to prove Superman isn't vulnerable to magic? smh
, ,Taking the Mc'dougal's axe clan in the arm and compare what the axe does to Blaze's horns
There is more if anyone wants to see them.
I will actually buy more the argument of Allan just being more powerful than trying to pit this to a "magic argument"
Originally posted by CosmicCometYou think Superman is going to take Zeus and his magic lightning (the second barrage which WWH virtually no-sold) or his magic lightning amped fists better than WWH? Are you unreal? Don't insult yourself.
...And is this supposed to be some indictment on his credibility?
It would basically be you versus ODG one-on-one with judges who will vote who made the best case at the end.
All you'd need to do is establish a concrete topic to debate/argue against (I'm assuming the validity of Superman's vulnerability to magic or something) and then pick judges whom you'd feel to be non-biased on the matter.
^ Topics like this can also detract from the actual vs thread. And I've been told that on more than one occasion. Which is another reason why a battlezone would be different from simply having the debate in here. Because the fact that this issue is starting to dominate this thread can be, and has been, a problem in and of itself.
Originally posted by PillarofOsirisIf that's all you have, then it's not worth my time. You've got a half dozen instances w/o context. I thought you'd have more. Which is why it's still an open challenge to anybody.
Okay, the only thing is, I'd feel like I'd be repeating a lot of what I just said here. But PM me if you want with some details of how you'd like to do it. With number of posts, judges, etc. I've never even visited the BZ area of the site, so I'll go there today and check it out.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You think Superman is going to take Zeus and his magic lightning (the second barrage which WWH virtually no-sold) or his magic lightning amped fists better than WWH? Are you unreal? Don't insult yourself.
I remember Hulk being on the ground and smoldering from his lightning, while Zeus stood over him, although I only read it once a while ago. It also seemed Zeus was playing around with him.
While Pillar showed that Superman has taken 6 lightning bolts from skyfather level beings.
Also, as stated, Hulk was one-shot KO'ed by Thor's lightning.
Superman is so much faster that he'd be harded to hit than the Hulk. Also his durability is way better. I think Superman does better all around though he won't win either.
Originally posted by keiththegreatSecond, not the first shot from behind.
I remember Hulk being on the ground and smoldering from his lightning, while Zeus stood over him, although I only read it once a while ago. It also seemed Zeus was playing around with him.
Originally posted by keiththegreatCaptain Marvel was edging Superman out in straight H2H. And, no, I'm not talking about when Billy sucker punched him. And we're talking about Zeus. Not some high herald who receives a portion of Zeus' power on loan. Somehow you think an actual skyfather with his magic lightning raining about and amping his fists would find Superman resisting him? smh
While Pillar showed that Superman has taken 6 lightning bolts from skyfather level beings.Also, as stated, Hulk was one-shot KO'ed by Thor's lightning.
Superman is so much faster that he'd be harded to hit than the Hulk. Also his durability is way better. I think Superman does better all around though he won't win either.
And, no, Hulk has never been one-shotted by Thor's lightning. Another stupid forum myth.
Keep in mind, when Superman has fought skyfathers, they usually don't intentionally handicap themselves either, like Zeus did with the Hulk. You can claim all you want that Hulk would do better than Superman against Zeus, but the fact of the matter is, Zeus's magic did hurt him. Hulk was NOT invulnerable to Zeus's magic, which was my point all along.
But again, I can point out an instance of Hulk being affected by magic for every instance of Superman being affected by it. Like Thor one-shotting Hulk with magic lightning. Dr. Strange has magicked Hulk a lot over the years, particularly while they were Defenders, but also that time Stephen banished Hulk to the place of floating rocks. In WWH, before Hulk broke Strange's hands, he said he could snuff out Hulk's mortal flame with the merest twitch of his finger.
I don't mean to pick on the Hulk here, but it was one example someone else brought up. And I guarantee if this was an "Alan Scott vs Hulk" thread, no one would claim, "Hulk is vulnerable to magic, so Alan Scott wins."
You know what's the most baffling thing about this debate? The fact that you guys can't seem to debate rationally about a friggin' magic weakness (or lack thereof). The next person to trot out the words 'retarded, idiotic' or their like gets a warning.
....
Realistically, there's a fair number of instances of Superman overcoming or no-selling magic, and a fair number of showings where a magic weakness is specifically referenced. But the fact that it exists in some capacity suggests that magic wouldn't be a non-factor in this fight....probably just a very small one. Is that statement so hard to get behind?
Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Ah.Alan writes a sequel to Willpower, and drops it on Superman's domepiece.
😂
