Originally posted by Galan007
Emma began peering into Kuurths mind--with her telepathy enhanced to the tenth power--and stated he was "unstoppable." The "strain" was too much for her, because even in an amped state, she could not affect his "unstoppable" mind.You guys are applying offense to defense, in lieu of feats of the same caliber. ie. Thanos has impressive feats in the way of resistance to mental attacks(defense)--his feats of offensive telepathy, however, do not come close to the aforementioned (from what I've seen.) Therefore, your opinion is essentially baseless--and a baseless opinion is exactly what my Kuurth example was centered around.
Again, if you believe Thanos can mind-phuck Kuurth, despite an amped Emma being unable to affect him in the slightest, then show offensive feats suggestive of such. I'm open to the notion that Thanos can do so, but your reverse-ABC logic isn't helping your case. 🙂
See this is where we differ. You are confining your opinion strictly to as you say "offense and defense". I'm specifically pointing out that even with an amp, Emma simply does not have the capacity (mental fortitude) to handle Kuurth's mind. In this case, sometimes mental durability (defense) is essential to carry out such a psionic assault (offense) properly.
Does Nova Prime have the mental capacity to fully unleash the Nova force in it's entirety? Answer is no. It has been stated he would go mad if not for his suit's safety measures. If he had the mental and physical fortitude, he would be infinitely more powerful. Perfect example of how having a strong offense is very much reliant to having a strong defense.
It is common knowldege that Thor's mystical iron gauntlets let him unleash Mjolnir's most powerful attacks. Applying the same idea above, this is another example of a similar relationship with "offense and defense".
Do you think Wolverine was more offensively effective with bone claws than his adamntium ones? No because his bone claws did not have the durability, the fortitude, the strength, or whatever word we can describe it with.
I don't see how this idea is "essentially baseless".
Originally posted by celeyhyga17Okay, but you still have yet to show any proof that Thanos has the offensive telepathy necessary to do anything to Kuurth--hence why I [almost completely] disagree with your opinion that telepathic defense=telepathic offense. Again, a drastically amped Emma couldn't do shit to a helmetless Kuurth.
See this is where we differ. You are confining your opinion strictly to as you say "offense and defense". I'm specifically pointing out that even with an amp, Emma simply does not have the capacity (mental fortitude) to handle Kuurth's mind. In this case, sometimes mental durability (defense) is essential to carry out such a psionic assault (offense) properly.
Here's her respect thread:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=439489&pagenumber=1
While I don't expect you to browse through 35 pages-worth of feats, at least try to skim through the bulk of them (pay particular attention to the feats Exodus posted.) Upon so doing, you will begin to realize how powerful of a telepath Emma is--across ALL avenues (both defense/fortitude AND offense.) Then remember that said abilities were amped to the tenth power when she failed miserably against Kuurth.
Again: offensive FEATS are what I want to see on Thanos' behalf--not personal conjecture regarding how potent you think his offensive TP should be...
Originally posted by vince_sliceYou could possibly solve two different ways.
I have a question. According to you and some others, Kuurth had classic Juggernaught's powers on top of the Serpent's power. Yet, when Cytorrak took that power away and gave it to Colossus, Colossonaught didn't show any where near classic Juggernaught level durability. In fact he got hurt and mangled badly by depowered Kuurth (who was at best roughly Thor level like the other Worthy). He was unstoppable that nothing can stop him when he starts moving, but he wasn't totally immune to physical harm like classic Juggs. How do you explain that?
One is by the fact that perhaps Pete wasn't fully powered when he pulled off the feat, and was still gaining his full strength as the fight went one. I don't really like that option.
Option 2 is the fact that at time Magic has been known to override the enchantment so it's possible that is the case. So big magically hammer charged attacks could have been the cause, which is far more likely imo.
It could be like Mishnu said he was still holding back, although from the thought dialogues I don't think that was the case.
Originally posted by Galan007
Okay, but you still have yet to show any proof that Thanos has the offensive telepathy necessary to do anything to Kuurth--hence why I [almost completely] disagree with your opinion that telepathic defense=telepathic offense. Again, a drastically amped Emma couldn't do shit to a helmetless Kuurth.Here's her respect thread:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=439489&pagenumber=1While I don't expect you to browse through 35 pages-worth of feats, at least try to skim through the bulk of them (pay particular attention to the feats Exodus posted.) Upon so doing, you will begin to realize how powerful of a telepath Emma is--across ALL avenues (both defense/fortitude AND offense.) Then remember that said abilities were amped to the tenth power when she failed miserably against Kuurth.
Again: offensive FEATS are what I want to see on Thanos' behalf--not personal conjecture regarding how potent you think his offensive TP should be...
Since you refuse to see the very essence of why I think Thanos can have a favorable tp assault against Kuurth, I'll just have to reiterate what others have said about his tp exploits. You've been given a laundry list of examples by other posters on his tp capability. Many of which time and again he is portrayed in a tier where many high end telepaths could only hope to be in. One of which was extremely impressive to many yet you dismissed as not being so. Anyone who is even able to affect Galactus's (frikkin abstract) mind should be deemed a telepath of the highest order. You talk of personal conjecture, is it not conjecture that you believe Emma with cerebra is above what Thanos is capable of? You ask for proof, where is yours? So I guess round and round we go.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17The scene in which Thanos telepathically assaulted Galactus was accomplished with the aid of Moondragon. Thanos needed Moondragon to such an extent that he literally went out of his way to acquire her services, for the sole purpose of utilizing her telepathic prowess--and once Moondragon was no longer required, Thanos swiftly BFR'd her (this can all be seen in Thanos #2-3.) That said, Thanos obviously needed her added telepathy to some extent... Thus, it can only be called a shared feat--and a very ambiguous one at that.
Since you refuse to see the very essence of why I think Thanos can have a favorable tp assault against Kuurth, I'll just have to reiterate what others have said about his tp exploits. You've been given a laundry list of examples by other posters on his tp capability. Many of which time and again he is portrayed in a tier where many high end telepaths could only hope to be in. One of which was extremely impressive to many yet you dismissed as not being so. Anyone who is even able to affect Galactus's (frikkin abstract) mind should be deemed a telepath of the highest order.
= why I haven't been mentioning said feat. Shared/ambiguous showings simply do not make for good evidence. That should go without saying.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17Seriously?
You talk of personal conjecture, is it not conjecture that you believe Emma with cerebra is above what Thanos is capable of? You ask for proof, where is yours? So I guess round and round we go.
-Conjecture-
con·jec·ture
Noun: An opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.
Verb: Form an opinion or supposition about (something) on the basis of incomplete information.
Synonyms:
noun. guess - surmise - supposition - presumption - assumption
verb. guess - surmise - presume - suppose - assume - speculate
I have given you a LOT of proof regarding how formidable Emma's telepathy is across ALL avenues. I even went as far as to provide proof pertaining to how vast of an amp she gained by wearing Cerebra. Then I provided proof that not even her amped teleapthy came close to affecting a helmetless Kuurth's mind.
All you have mentioned on behalf of Thanos is a shared/ambiguous feat (hardly credible evidence), and feats of him resisting mental tampering (defensive feats.)
My opinion is absolutely based on the proof presented by both sides thus far. Conjecture, you say? Heh, not in the slightest. Again: all I'd like to see is definitive proof that Thanos' solo offensive TP is sufficient to mind-phuck Kuurth--a task Emma [amped to the 10th power] failed miserably at accomplishing.
It's really that simple. 🙂
Originally posted by h1a8
How? Thanos won't be able to harm Kuurth at all.
Also what's stopping Kuurth from smashing Thanos face in with the unstoppable hammer?
why do you think thanos wont be able to hurt kuurth? as i explained in another thread kuurth is just serpent enhancement + half juggernaut enhancement and its nothing thanos wouldnt be able to overcome, hell colossus cracked his helmet with a punch, thanos will cruck his skull and open it with a non amped punch, i am not even bringing his amps and energy manipulation he will stomp kuurth.
^ Thanos doesn't have the ability to force absolute zero on the helmet. Thanos doesn't have Magneto's electromagnetic manipulation to warp it. Thanos doesn't have Hope's super-all-in-one mutant blitz abilities to tear it off.
Even if he had the required power to wreck it with pure power, FP Kuurth no sold a Cerebra-amped tp attack. And then he just reformed his helmet immediately after no selling it.
I can see FP Kuurth withstanding a godblast (Juggernaut did after all). I simply don't see Thanos withstanding a godblast as well. And that measure of durability is going to present significant problems for Thanos.
Originally posted by Galan007
The scene in which Thanos telepathically assaulted Galactus was accomplished with the aid of Moondragon. Thanos needed Moondragon to such an extent that he literally went out of his way to acquire her services, for the sole purpose of utilizing her telepathic prowess--and once Moondragon was no longer required, Thanos swiftly BFR'd her (this can all be seen in Thanos #2-3.) That said, Thanos obviously needed her added telepathy to some extent... Thus, it can only be called a shared feat--and a very ambiguous one at that.= why I haven't been mentioning said feat. Shared/ambiguous showings simply do not make for good evidence. That should go without saying.
Seriously?
I have given you a LOT of proof regarding how formidable Emma's telepathy is across ALL avenues. I even went as far as to provide proof pertaining to how vast of an amp she gained by wearing Cerebra. Then I provided proof that not even her amped teleapthy came close to affecting a helmetless Kuurth's mind.
All you have mentioned on behalf of Thanos is a shared/ambiguous feat (hardly credible evidence), and feats of him resisting mental tampering (defensive feats.)
My opinion is absolutely based on the proof presented by both sides thus far. Conjecture, you say? Heh, not in the slightest. Again: all I'd like to see is definitive proof that Thanos' solo offensive TP is sufficient to mind-phuck Kuurth--a task Emma [amped to the 10th power] failed miserably at accomplishing.
It's really that simple. 🙂
thanos also required xavier's help in the infinity crusdae to attack the goddess near the end of the series....