The Phantom vs Batman

Originally posted by Mumrik
[B]With more experience than the phantom?
That is from his bio, hmm expanded life span. Seems he is about 600 years old, while that means he must be a master at swordfighting it doesn't necessarly mean he is a better fighter than the phantom. To my knowledge Ra's hasn't spent 30 of his 600 years in the jungles like a wild man wrestling with wild animals on a weekly basis.

No, it means that he has spent easily 30 (at least, most likely much much more than that) fighting with a sword.

Also do ask yourself how long time it takes to become a master swordsman, there are only so many moves one can learn.

There is no real proof that Ra's is better at swords than the phantom and even if he were he wouldn't be as strong as the phantom. That Batman, a ninja for three years proves that 600 years of sword fighting means nothing. Since he were able to defeat Ra's.

How about we turn it around, and say that Barbary lions can't actually be that uber, because the Phantom could obviously defeat them?

What I'm saying is...that defeating Ra's can't possibly be considered a much more impressive feat than to defeat a couple of bandits with guns.

Fighting animals in the jungle > fighting psychopathic super criminals and villains

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Fighting animals in the jungle > fighting psychopathic super criminals and villains

There IS Doom....

Lion > deer > wolverine > hulk = phantom >>>> hulk 😐

Doom could fight both Batman and Phantom at the same time and it would still be spite against them.

Naked.

Originally posted by red sabre
i dont understand 1 thing, how can this mumrik guy come in here, show us a scan of phantom spanking women on her butt chiks, claim that phantom defeated a lion, and somehow try to present this "case" as the reason why he can beat batman? 🤨

It's the internet, and KMC. Is it really that unbelievable? It's good for some comedy though. This was same guy saying that Surfer could effortlessly take over Marvel Earth last week.

ow boy someone doesnt read comics, i find it both funny and irritating at the same time how you are trying to make batman and captain america simple humans but boast the phantom for beating a lion.

batman displayed feats that clearly tell us he can break the neck of a lion with 1 hand, try reading batman for a change.

And Phantom hasn't spent years of his life intimidating and owning a universe full of superhumans that could eviscerate jungle animals, being one of the top martial artists and strategic thinkers on the planet, and being rich enough to prep for anything with gadgets.

Obama>Phantom in hand to hand combat?

As for top martial artist, he was defeated by Batman. Batman who has spent how many years training as a ninja? Fact is that there are many people in this world that would be able to kick Batman's ass. He is a rich play boy after all...he would be little without his gadgets and suit and element of suprise. Listen I know the writers have been giving Batman BJ's in the comics. But I'm trying to ignore unrealistic PIS feats and look at this REALISTICALLY. One can't come to a conclusion if one doesn't look at things realistically.

Also the phantom and Ra's are from different universes. So the title of best martial artist in the world doesn't really matter, that goes for Batman as well.

That's like saying chess 'only' has a certain number of moves (bishops can only move diagonally etc), therefore, it doesn't take that long to become a chess grandmaster. Sure, it can't take 100s of years to learn all the moves in swordfighting - but its experience that counts.

Fighting animals in the jungle > fighting psychopathic super criminals and villains

Actually, Captain America is legitimately superhuman, not peak human, which Batman is. Physically, there's nothing Bruce could do that Steve couldn't do and to greater effect with more ease. That includes fighting lions, and tigers, and bears (or bison).

That said, Batman's high end feats are still mightily impressive for a peak human, which still shits on the real world. Batman sure as hell does have PIS feats, but he also has plenty of non-Batgod fueled feats that suggest him beating wild animals...such as the times he's beaten wild animals. That's without factoring in his gadget spamming abilities.

Lol @ trying to grossly downplay Batman's martial arts skill, though. The guy is one of the top fighters on his Earth, and no spin control or lowballing can change that. He's a detective first and foremost, but still, the guy is a master martial artist. Even someone like Srank would admit that much.

But in your opinion taking on a barbary lion is more impressive than fighting Bane on Venom or Solomon Grundy or Clayface or Killer Croc, right?

Originally posted by Mumrik
Captain america is a human with the best possible attributes in terms of physical prowess. Not even the most atheletic perfect example of the human species could wrestle an american bison to the ground. At the end of the day Batman and Captain america are homo sapiens...big apes that is. While it's possible for a human to dominate wild animals, some animals are simply constructed in such a way that it's impossible for a human to take them on in h2h combat. Bruce wayne with his ninja skills would have big problems with a barbary lion and other animals too. Captain america could probably win over a lion but no he wouldn't wrestle a 2 tonned american bison to the ground. Also remember from the movie, Batman had problem with the joker's dogs...
I'm trying to look at this encounter between the phantom and batman realistically. There is no human that can break the neck of a lion with one hand...so whatever feat you are reffering to it's PIS.
Oh so having influence over others is a feat, being rich too? Well then I'm sure you would say.

oh boy, Cap is a peak human based on what? let me save it for you, "based on wikipedia and some bio i see from 30 years ago", seriously i am tired at poiting out the same point to dozens of people here, dont you read other threads? you didnt see my point for cap? by feats captain america is a clear super human, i just listed you some of his feats didnt you notice that? didnt you look at my post? i presented you several of the feats that put him in the super human category and all you do is repeating like some robot that he is a peak human just because its stated so in some bio and wikipedia? its also stated that sabretooth is as strong as a guy his own size that doing physical training daily, i guess sabretooth has human strength right? when will people start reading comics and start to figure things out on their own? such a fail.

you are basically claiming that at the end of the day batman and captain america are just humans even with the fact they presented from peak human to super human feats? how dumb is that? at the end of the day luke cage is also just human with tough skin so he cant beat a bison as well? the whole point of comics is presenting us those "humans" reaching unrealistic levels of physical ability and other abilities as well, batman by feats defeated several buffalos with his bare hands, but you go up against a comics showing and against all his showings claiming all that is bullshit because he is a human? do you even think before you type something?

now you bring out the movie version of batman having problem with dogs to somehow try and back your case up??? movie version???? really? do you even know whats this forum about? dude the fail is too big with you i cant take it.

Mumrik, saying anything Batman does beyond what a normal human can do is calling almost his entire canon PIS. It just doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Comics aren't real-life, and Batman can do things that normal humans can't.

Also, yeah, Cap's legit superhuman. So your assessment of him is factually wrong.

To everyone else: I'd be careful about getting too worked up. There's a fair chance he's just trolling at this point.

yeah he must be, but i feel like some things must be explained otherwise other people might actually think he got a point that batman and Cap are only humans.

but yeah i think the usage of movie version batman having trouble with dogs blew away his cover.

Listen guy, I'm imagening the characters as if they were real. The recent batman movies are what I'm imagening Batman to be. And those are actually far more realistic and less ridiculous than most of the comics. Increase the size of this cat 75% and you got a barbary lion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9KcbDk-lmE&feature=player_detailpage

Now tell me how would a ninja playboy like Bruce wayne wrestle such a beast to the ground? Let's be realistic for a moment huh? The phantom is far more likely to be able to deal with such a beast, in fact I'd say his most impressive h2h feat is wrestling a barbary lion to the ground.

You bring up killer croc and bane as examples of humans who are more impressive than a barbary lion. Well maybe in the fictional world of the comics but if one wants to come to some truth like I want to. Then you need to look at things realistically, bane couldn't possibly achieve anything but world's strongest man status. Humans are simply inferior to most animals alright?

Batman can't do it without his many gadgets and a plan before heading into battle. The phantom is a better close combat fighter, therefore the only way Batman could defeat the phantom would be to use his many tools that being:

-Tear gas
-Smoke nades
-Batarangs
-Razor gloves

in combination with luck...but still he might be a good martial artist, but the phantom is much stronger and smarter! The phantom isn't a brute like one would think. Imagine a noble ARIAN samurai in the jungles...with the agility and speed of Tarzan. Physically superior to bruce and therefore even with his gadgets Batman would die...I think I'll lower the time for Batman. 2 minutes and his spine is broken...

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
That includes fighting lions, and tigers, and bears (or bison).

LOL

Originally posted by Mumrik
Listen guy, I'm imagening the characters as if they were real.

and thats my friend is the problem here.

Originally posted by Mumrik
Listen guy, I'm imagening the characters as if they were real. The recent batman movies are what I'm imagening Batman to be. And those are actually far more realistic and less ridiculous than most of the comics. Increase the size of this cat 75% and you got a barbary lion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9KcbDk-lmE&feature=player_detailpage

Now tell me how would a ninja playboy like Bruce wayne wrestle such a beast to the ground? Let's be realistic for a moment huh? The phantom is far more likely to be able to deal with such a beast, in fact I'd say his most impressive h2h feat is wrestling a barbary lion to the ground.

You bring up killer croc and bane as examples of humans who are more impressive than a barbary lion. Well maybe in the fictional world of the comics but if one wants to come to some truth like I want to. Then you need to look at things realistically, bane couldn't possibly achieve anything but world's strongest man status. Humans are simply inferior to most animals alright?

Batman can't do it without his many gadgets and a plan before heading into battle. The phantom is a better close combat fighter, therefore the only way Batman could defeat the phantom would be to use his many tools that being:

-Tear gas
-Smoke nades
-Batarangs
-Razor gloves

in combination with luck...but still he might be a good martial artist, but the phantom is much stronger and smarter! The phantom isn't a brute like one would think. Imagine a noble ARIAN samurai in the jungles...with the agility and speed of Tarzan. Physically superior to bruce and therefore even with his gadgets Batman would die...I think I'll lower the time for Batman. 2 minutes and his spine is broken...

Well, therein lies the problem.

You're imagining the characters as how you picture them to be or should be instead of how they're actually portrayed, claiming it's PIS.

Unfortunately, this is a comic book forum and realism is often thrown out of the door, even with street level (especially with street levelers at times). You can't just ignore what doesn't fit with your preconceived notions and neuter abilities and skills shown on panel on a consistent basis just to give your guy a shot at the win. It was the same kind of flawed argument that got your Silver Surfer vs. Marvel Earth thread closed. Well, that, and the fact that it was colossal spite against Surfer.

No way in hell is Phantom a better close combat fighter than Batman. You've not proved that he's stronger or skilled than Wayne outside of "well, Batman is unrealistic, so I'm going to make him a real world human" mindset.

Captain America would dismantle Phantom in moments.

So essentially, its Christian Bale vs Billy Zane? Is that what you're saying?

Bale wins, handily.

Originally posted by Mumrik
Experience counts, yet batman who has lived far less than 600 years beat Ra's...so...experience doesn't matter?

So....Batman is just that good, was the point I was trying to make.

Listen guy, I'm imagening the characters as if they were real.

The recent batman movies are what I'm imagening Batman to be.

Now tell me how would a ninja playboy like Bruce wayne wrestle such a beast to the ground? Let's be realistic for a moment huh? The phantom is far more likely to be able to deal with such a beast, in fact I'd say his most impressive h2h feat is wrestling a barbary lion to the ground.

You bring up killer croc and bane as examples of humans who are more impressive than a barbary lion. Well maybe in the fictional world of the comics

The phantom is a better close combat fighter, therefore the only way Batman could defeat the phantom would be to use his many tools that being:

-Tear gas
-Smoke nades
-Batarangs
-Razor gloves

in combination with luck...

Imagine a noble ARIAN samurai in the jungles...

Why would the fact that he is 'ARIAN' matter? This smells suspiciously like racism....

with the agility and speed of Tarzan. Physically superior to bruce and therefore even with his gadgets Batman would die...I think I'll lower the time for Batman. 2 minutes and his spine is broken...

That's the thing. Batman has fought faster, stronger opponents than him before. He's still fine.

No way in hell is Phantom a better close combat fighter than Batman. You've not proved that he's stronger or skilled than Wayne outside of "well, Batman is unrealistic, so I'm going to make him a real world human" mindset.

-When the Phantom moves the lightning's still
-Phantom sneaks quietly than jungle cat
-There are nights when the Phantom leaves the jungle and walk the city streets as a common man
-You will never find the Phantom - he finds you
-Phantom voice ice blood
-Phantom is hard on the hard
-Aim never to Phantom
-Phantom has a thousand eyes and a thousand ears
-Phantom has ten tiger strength
-Anyone who sees the phantom face die a horrible death
-When the answer to ask Phantom
-Waking in the dark and watch the Phantom - a horror of evil men
-Phantom rests only when peace prevails in the world

Sorry for the crappy google translation. This comic book is just so dead outside of america you know. Note the strength of 10 tigers, nothing the batman can handle.

Originally posted by Mumrik
LMAO, are you serious...I have pointed you to a lot of feats that are far more impressive than anything Batman has done. Also the jungle sayings...

-When the Phantom moves the lightning's still
-Phantom sneaks quietly than jungle cat
-There are nights when the Phantom leaves the jungle and walk the city streets as a common man
-You will never find the Phantom - he finds you
-Phantom voice ice blood
-Phantom is hard on the hard
-Aim never to Phantom
-Phantom has a thousand eyes and a thousand ears
-Phantom has ten tiger strength
-Anyone who sees the phantom face die a horrible death
-When the answer to ask Phantom
-Waking in the dark and watch the Phantom - a horror of evil men
-Phantom rests only when peace prevails in the world

Sorry for the crappy google translation. This comic book is just so dead outside of america you know. Note the strength of 10 tigers, nothing the batman can handle.

Oh sh*t, jungle sayings! Batman has zero of those, therefore, he loses....

Especially the '-Phantom is hard on the hard'. If he's hard on the hard, there is no way Batman can compete with that.

Are you actually being serious? I doubt it.