Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You're still upset that Thanos mindraped The Hulk with utter ease.. a mere thought...
I never said Thanos couldn't mind rape a calm Hulk. It's when he is in a rage when its hard to mind attack him. That was still a good showing for Thanos. WWH would still stomp Thanos.
Originally posted by Damborgson
mhmm. His footsteps were threatening the eastern seaboard, and not the entire continent. Eventually if he kept on doing his thing it would have, but at the time it wasn't. Which would give me even more reason to believe that the Dark Dimension had something to do with it. Since I think it'd be pretty laughable if anyone claimed that that non-holding back stronger than gamma bomb filled Hulk would be unable to accomplish what he did in the Dark Dimension at weaker levels.You know thats impossible though. Hulk shaking the eastern seaboard isn't more impressive to me than the mutated Hulk beginning to endanger the planet. It can't be argued that he's not as strong as he was since he was being given more power. Power that affected She Hulk and A Bomb and made them substantially stronger. Capable of affecting Bruce and Betty with punches. Absolutely no reason for them to have not amped WBH beyond what he was.
I get what you're saying, but I disagree on him having powered down from WBH levels. He was still in his mind in the dark dimension where he could let loose all his power. I don't see why he would have powered down or anything that points to it tbh. The gamma energy that surrounded him wasn't flowing at all times either so thats hard to use as an indication of whether he was at WBH levels or not. But seeing as he no longer cared about the destruction around him I see no reason for him to not have been at WBH levels.
The mutation like i said before though, showed huge power ups for abomb and she hulk. Had it been just a size increase it'd be different, but they were able to hurt/affect Hulk with punches who no sold class 100's easily.
Pak could have had whatever intention he wanted, but unless there's something said about the Dark Dimension being changed, it should still hold true to the rules that made it up before. I see how'd you see it as nitpicking or reaching and I guess it could be called that, but despite me not being buddy buddy with the Hulk I'm not doing it to screw him over of his feat. But if his feat has context which looks to be the case, then it should be included when his feat is mentioned like with Superman's feat. He was going beyond physical damage and damaging reality itself but there was context to it so that it probably wouldn't happen under normal circumstances.
You're right that the most impressive part of it was the disintegration of past peers, but with the mindless ones I have my doubts. What really makes the feat is wendigo, bi-beast, and armaggedon being reduced to nothing by the shockwave. But the mindless ones in large part have been portrayed as standard punching bags to me. Professor Hulk was able to mess them up back in the day, Thor's broken them, among others.
The planet being destroyed along with two moons was a high end ft. The Mindless Ones, the same Mindless Ones that was stated in THE SAME BOOK as being unstoppable to even Umar...and Hulk melting them is a high end ft...especially when a skyfather was unable to stop them. Stop discrediting the ft, especially when WBH could have cracked a planet in half with mere footsteps.
Originally posted by carver9
I never said Thanos couldn't mind rape a calm Hulk. It's when he is in a rage when its hard to mind attack him. That was still a good showing for Thanos. WWH would still stomp Thanos.
Nah he wasn't calm since he was in his Hulk state.. that alone implies he wasn't calm.. if he was.. he'd be banner...
Originally posted by carver9
The planet being destroyed along with two moons was a high end ft. The Mindless Ones, the same Mindless Ones that was stated in THE SAME BOOK as being unstoppable to even Umar...and Hulk melting them is a high end ft...especially when a skyfather was unable to stop them. Stop discrediting the ft, especially when WBH could have cracked a planet in half with mere footsteps.
Carver to be honest I think you're hurting the character more than helping him. You can't ignore what makes sense just because you don't like it.
Originally posted by PillarofOsirischeck out the fallowing issue after the infamous clash
It seemed to me like he did die.
Dr. Strange stopped time as the impact happened to speak to banner, and hulk and red she-hulk are frozen as they make contact as well as the burning corpses of the various characters as they're hit by the same heat. All withing the same instance. Strange then releases the spell and the two continue to fight at ground zero
Originally posted by Damborgson
Carver to be honest I think you're hurting the character more than helping him. You can't ignore what makes sense just because you don't like it.
Damborgson, to be honest, I think you are trying to lowball the character more than anything. You cant ignore what was shown on panel.
"Yes, but none of those abilities will harm Hulk. In fact, they'd only serve to make him stronger. Banner becomes Hulk by absorbing ambient energy triggered by his emotions. Any energy you throw at Hulk, whether it be through physical attack or "powers" only get absorbed by Hulk making him more powerful. And don't say Superman doesn't get tired. That's how he died at the hands of Doomsday, by expending more energy than he was taking in via the sun. The Hulk doesn't have that problem. Suck THAT!
Actually that is true. This was told when the writers were trying to explain how Banner was able to increase in size and mass. They said he absorbs the ambient energy around him, and basically feeds off it like a steroid. This is a bi-product of his Gamma Mutation. Gamma rays are 10,000 times more powerful than visible light (that shit Superman tans in), and are capable of converting and creating energy into "new" things. This is how the Hulk transforms energy into strength and power. "- khominian
What do you guys think of that? I think its really retarded but...yeah. Some dude's argument in a Superman vs Hulk...in youtube heh
Originally posted by Sundipped
@ Stoic
I'm not trolling you or anything but I would really like to hear your response to these direct questions. You seemed to sort of dodge em. Just want your opinion. Or any Hulk supporters who want to tackle these questions.
Most likely because there is so much to consider when answering questions like this. I'll do my best to answer as much as I can according to my opinion.
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I know the Hulk's strength is dynamic, what I'm saying is, the best we've SEEN from him on panel, is not better than the best we've SEEN from Superman. That's not even debatable. Yeah, maybe the Hulk's strength could go past Superman's (assuming there is anything he can lift that beyond infinite weight I guess), but I've yet to see it, and I've read a ton of Hulk comics, and by and large enjoy them. I just don't make him out to be a trans character like some people.You're basically giving us the textbook definition of the no-limits fallacy. I'm going to ask you a question, and don't take this the wrong way, I'm just wondering how much physical damage, if any, you believe WBH could take before he is killed.
Do you think Odin, just amping his strength only (a la Zeus) could physically beat the WBH to death?
If not, do you think that, say a guy like Infinity Man, Thanos, or GA Superboy prime, or PC Superman could beat him to death?
i.e., if WBH just sat there and let Odin, or Infinity Man, or Thanos, or PC Captain Marvel could beat him down, would he ever die IYO?
1. How many other super strong characters have attempted to lift this book of infinite pages? What kinds of on panel trouble did they have lifting it? I mean besides Superman, and Ultraman. How do I know that another super strong character could not lift it as well? It's things like this that no one can really say anything about, but it's certain that many question arise on the validity of said abstract, and unquantified feats. There is evidence that points to Superman not being able lift an infinite amount of weight, if he could he would not have needed help towing a planet right? I mean come on, the book was resting on a table for Pete's sake. I think this is one feat that should never have seen the printing plates TBH.
2. How is it a fallacy when it was written into canon that the Hulk was written to be an infinite power? The Beyonder, who happened to be a high cosmic entity analyzed the Hulk, and said it himself. There comes a time when fan opinion must take a back seat what was written. Would you agree? I mean do you question other characters powers as much as you do with the Hulk?
Going by text book references of the Hulk is something that has to be done, because many seem to neglect what is written within them concerning his powers.
3. How strong do I believe the Hulk is, or can become? Where would I place him in the power club? The Hulk on panel has been shown to become more durable as his strength increased, I have never ever once read any dialog that stated that the Hulk has finally reached the limit, and that he could no longer increase his strength. Have you?
Odin by stature would never be allowed to be beaten by the Hulk, nor would he be beaten by Superman, and many guys in between that large gap in power... or should I say status?
The power it would take to kill or put him out would depend on how strong he was at that time, and since he has dynamic strength, and dynamic durability technically if he surpassed the person hitting him by leaps and bounds, he would not be hurt.
On panel we saw a solid example of this when he no sold shots that in the past would have launched him through buildings. I was not impressed by the Infinity Man's showings even when he was written to rep the Source. If he were that powerful he would have one shot Kal, and he wasn't exactly holding back according to the Infinity Man himself when he realized that Superman kept coming.
For all of those that you have mentioned, I will say this. From what I saw of how his powers work. If the Hulk were strong enough he would be able to stand toe to toe with any of the above mentioned in a slug fest. Scoff if you want, but solid proof is solid proof. If you can, perhaps you can find out Hulk's limit, because as far as I'm concerned, and the writers of the character that own his rights, the Hulk is an Infinite power that will not allow himself to grow too powerful because of the life that he would take in doing so.
In character the Hulk is not a murderer.
CIS Off for the Hulk?
The Hulk would allow himself to grow so strong that he would not be able to feel Superman punching him, and Superman would not be pulling out the heart of a guy that has just blown past his own durability threshold, and continue to increase as his strength does.
CIS Off for Superman?
Superman would never allow the Hulk to hit him, because he would be too fast to be seen.
It's just as I said in the beginning, Stalemate. Keeping in mind that this is the Hulk in World Breaker mode, he already starts out at incredibly high strength levels, and got to that point in seconds, imagine giving him 3 times the amount of time to ramp up even higher?