Superman vs WBH-To the Death

Originally posted by Stoic
I would hope that I would lose at a low balling contest, because it is you doing to low balling. Making it seem like Superman is even close to WB Hulk in the dept. of strength, and durability. Would you also like people to believe that Superman could continue to increase in power at the same tempo that WB Hulk can?

And yet here you are again not understanding the Hulk's power set. Where did it say on panel that the Hulk had finally reached his limit? Please show the world because I think I missed it. Do you need a tutorial on his power set? Do you have any idea just how strong the guys that were hitting him were, and how he acting like he was being hit by a gentle breeze? Superman would not be able to tank that amount of damage in a consistent showing. CIS off means that he's doing everything in his power to win, not that his powers have been boosted. Superman would not be able to hurt WB Hulk. This is why it would just boil down to a long boring stalemate with Superman throwing ineffective punches, while the Hulk would not have the ability to hit him.

I know the Hulk's strength is dynamic, what I'm saying is, the best we've SEEN from him on panel, is not better than the best we've SEEN from Superman. That's not even debatable. Yeah, maybe the Hulk's strength could go past Superman's (assuming there is anything he can lift that beyond infinite weight I guess), but I've yet to see it, and I've read a ton of Hulk comics, and by and large enjoy them. I just don't make him out to be a trans character like some people.

You're basically giving us the textbook definition of the no-limits fallacy. I'm going to ask you a question, and don't take this the wrong way, I'm just wondering how much physical damage, if any, you believe WBH could take before he is killed.

Do you think Odin, just amping his strength only (a la Zeus) could physically beat the WBH to death?

If not, do you think that, say a guy like Infinity Man, Thanos, or GA Superboy prime, or PC Superman could beat him to death?

i.e., if WBH just sat there and let Odin, or Infinity Man, or Thanos, or PC Captain Marvel could beat him down, would he ever die IYO?

Originally posted by Diesldude
I know I quoted Carver but he isn't available I guess, but stoic you can take a crack at this if you want. Thx

WB Hulk was at the very least be 1000x stronger than Savage before he even went to the Dark Dimension according to what was written when he easily outperformed an Augmented Bi-Beast, and Wendigo, who were said to be 1000x their base strength. This again happened before he went to the Dark Dimension, and released half of the power great enough to at the very least, indirectly destroy a planet and its moons.

I can not say how powerful he was while in the Dark Dimension, because it never states this much, but it was certainly leagues above what he did to the suped up Wendigo, and Bi Beast. His resistance to damage also grew exponentially with his strength. This much is certain if judging by context.

Originally posted by Stoic
WB Hulk was at the very least be 1000x stronger than Savage before he even went to the Dark Dimension according to what was written when he easily outperformed an Augmented Bi-Beast, and Wendigo, who were said to be 1000x their base strength. This again happened before he went to the Dark Dimension, and released half of the power great enough to at the very least, indirectly destroy a planet and its moons.

I can not say how powerful he was while in the Dark Dimension, because it never states this much, but it was certainly leagues above what he did to the suped up Wendigo, and Bi Beast. His resistance to damage also grew exponentially with his strength. This much is certain if judging by context.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I know the Hulk's strength is dynamic, what I'm saying is, the best we've SEEN from him on panel, is not better than the best we've SEEN from Superman. That's not even debatable. Yeah, maybe the Hulk's strength could go past Superman's (assuming there is anything he can lift that beyond infinite weight I guess), but I've yet to see it, and I've read a ton of Hulk comics, and by and large enjoy them. I just don't make him out to be a trans character like some people.

You're basically giving us the textbook definition of the no-limits fallacy. I'm going to ask you a question, and don't take this the wrong way, I'm just wondering how much physical damage, if any, you believe WBH could take before he is killed.

Do you think Odin, just amping his strength only (a la Zeus) could physically beat the WBH to death?

If not, do you think that, say a guy like Infinity Man, Thanos, or GA Superboy prime, or PC Superman could beat him to death?

i.e., if WBH just sat there and let Odin, or Infinity Man, or Thanos, or PC Captain Marvel could beat him down, would he ever die IYO?

But DC is notorious for discontinuity (hence the crisis, and hard reboot). The only way for us to truly gauge the best strength feats out of the two is to weigh them up against other well known characters with defined strength peaks. Not an Omni Laser said to be capable of destroying 40 stars, because we then enter into the realms of hyperbole, and many other statements that feed such thought processes.

Let's instead go off of the two in combat against well known mid-high level Herald characters., and how well they did against them. Were they moved by them? How weak were they in comparison to these two.

And one more very important thing, let's not get into this shrinkage bullshyt, Wendigo, Bi-Beast, and Arm'Cheddon are all very powerful beings, and have always been able to take on true herald level characters when not jobbing which would be the norm that we need to discuss.

WB'S norm vs Superman's norm.

Originally posted by Diesldude
And the other part? Good answer, How much is he stronger than base level Thor?

I really didn't want to go there. In my honest opinion I would place Thor at base levels to be 1/3rd or less stronger than Bi-Beast without being augmented. I'm going off of past showings in comics, and the difficulties that other characters have had when dealing with the Bi Beast, excluding the Hulk (dynamic strength is why he's excluded). It's really a loaded question, because the answer involves a lot of cross referencing.

Originally posted by Diesldude
And the other part? Good answer, How much is he stronger than base level Thor?

Enough where if they went toe to toe in a physical fight, Thor isn't going to last very long at all.

Originally posted by Stoic
But DC is notorious for discontinuity (hence the crisis, and hard reboot). The only way for us to truly gauge the best strength feats out of the two is to weigh them up against other well known characters with defined strength peaks. Not an Omni Laser said to be capable of destroying 40 stars, because we then enter into the realms of hyperbole, and many other statements that feed such thought processes.

Let's instead go off of the two in combat against well known mid-high level Herald characters., and how well they did against them. Were they moved by them? How weak were they in comparison to these two.

And one more very important thing, let's not get into this shrinkage bullshyt, Wendigo, Bi-Beast, and Arm'Cheddon are all very powerful beings, and have always been able to take on true herald level characters when not jobbing which would be the norm that we need to discuss.

WB'S norm vs Superman's norm.

Would you say WBH doesn't hold back?

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Would you say WBH doesn't hold back?

I don't think that WB was holding back, due to the enchantment placed on Betty. However this does not mean that he was at the limits of how powerful he could become. The Hulk gets his power from an extra-dimensional and unknown source.

Who's the most powerful person that WBH has beaten?

Originally posted by Stoic
But DC is notorious for discontinuity (hence the crisis, and hard reboot).

I think you have that the other way around.

It seems to me that even if WBH had a strength and durability advantage that it would be minimal, it's not enough to overcome Superman's other abilities, especially speed. And if we were to speculate that WBH could get stronger, wouldn't that be another, so far UNKNOWN version of the Hulk?

i.e., Savage Hulk ->WWH -> WBH -> Next level Hulk

So WWH is a madder version of Savage Hulk. When WWH gets mad enough he turns to WBH, etc.

So really, it's not fair to extrapolate WBH's abilities to higher levels, without calling this "new Hulk" something else.

If we're talking about WBH, we can only go by what we've seen on panel for him, not speculate as to how much more powerful he can become.

Originally posted by keiththegreat
Who's the most powerful person that WBH has beaten?

Armageddon? I think.

He's beaten several powerful Herald level beings to embarrassment. Fin Fang Foom whose wings once threatened to topple a mountain, and blew Ironman and War Machine around like toys. Arm'Cheddon, whose power was often used to destabilize his opponent, which included the Silver Surfer. He was also from a race of beings that possessed Hulk-like strength.

Bi Beast once wrestled against Thor, and even defeated the Savage Hulk. They were all useless to him. These are guys that could lift up DC-10's and toss them. Would you agree that Bi-Beast would give Sasquatch a huge fight? Wendigo made him scream like a sissy in the past. I mean to ignore that type of power, with the promise of being able to become even more powerful than that? What was the weakest guy that punched an enraged Superman making him hurtle across the city?

When did Superman ever have a collision with an equal power to his own, that indirectly made a planet explode? I saw Darkseid kick him through a barn, and bruise him. Come on now. I don't see Kal KO'ing WB at the height of his power. But I also cant see the Hulk hitting Superman, unless he attempts to bulldog a superior strength class which would result in making him look like he did when he did the same to Synnar during the Hardcore Station arc. If the Hulk layed into him at that level, DOS would happen all over again.

Well to be fair his collisions have caused reality to start breaking apart. Reality under flux or not it's pretty impressive.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Enough where if they went toe to toe in a physical fight, Thor isn't going to last very long at all.

These threads bring out the worst in people/loved characters

Originally posted by Damborgson
Armageddon? I think.

Originally posted by Stoic
When did Superman ever have a collision with an equal power to his own, that indirectly made a planet explode?

I don't have time to answer ur whole post because I need to get to bed, but superman and general zod destroyed a planet as a by product of their fight, and superman on his own has destroyed moons, but keep in mind superman is not the kind of hero who would usually let a planet get destroyed. Oh and the maggedon feat.... That was the equivalent of 320 EARTHS.... Much more impressive IMO.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Well to be fair his collisions have caused reality to start breaking apart. Reality under flux or not it's pretty impressive.

So it wasn't normal reality then?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
yes, however he and the others were leaves in wind before hulk even though he was holding back