Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I don't have time to answer ur whole post because I need to get to bed, but superman and general zod destroyed a planet as a by product of their fight, and superman on his own has destroyed moons, but keep in mind superman is not the kind of hero who would usually let a planet get destroyed. Oh and the maggedon feat.... That was the equivalent of 320 EARTHS.... Much more impressive IMO.
This is something and if this is true, it would mean that Captain Marvel is also at this level, and Despero, whoa let's not even get into what level of power he is on. There must be some form of a medium with Superman, because I really can't understand the idea of him surviving that much guff, only to be wailed on, bleeding and KO'd by Despero by less than park shattering force. So should we go by Superman's medium, and more consistent, or his one timers? If Despero isn't enough lets talk Magog, and how even before he lanced Superman, Supes was unable to put him down, or resist being overpowered and ejected from the ground? What about the shot that Atlas gave him?
Anyways I'm about to crash too. Work in the morning.
Originally posted by Stoic
This is something and if this is true, it would mean that Captain Marvel is also at this level, and Despero, whoa let's not even get into what level of power he is on. There must be some form of a medium with Superman, because I really can't understand the idea of him surviving that much guff, only to be wailed on, bleeding and KO'd by Despero by less than park shattering force. So should we go by Superman's medium, and more consistent, or his one timers? If Despero isn't enough lets talk Magog, and how even before he lanced Superman, Supes was unable to put him down, or resist being overpowered and ejected from the ground? What about the shot that Atlas gave him?Anyways I'm about to crash too. Work in the morning.
Why would Superman being that powerful mean Despero was too?
The only time he's been KO'd by Despero in recent memory was during Virtue and Vice. He's stalemated him and beaten him in other fights.
Magog? Superman was doing fine against him in their initial encounter. And then, later, a weakened Superman was taking on multiple copies single-handed.
Atlas had help.
Originally posted by Damborgson
Well to be fair his collisions have caused reality to start breaking apart. Reality under flux or not it's pretty impressive.
Impressive yes but such feats are pretty hard to quantify both based on their nature and in this case the context surrounding it. Not very useful in comparisons
Originally posted by Damborgson
It's been a while since I've read it. Something was going on with reality and Kal-el and Kal-l were going at it. Reality was falling apart or being rearranged with every hit or something similar.
You know that the Savage Hulk has feats like that as well? Ripping open dimensions magical or otherwise. There was a lot of power being displayed in the Dark Dimension, I mean it lit the entire place up, and it's usually supposed to be dark, hence the name.
Ask yourself this if the Hulk and Betty leaped (all muscle power) at speeds great enough that they indirectly made a planet explode at the very least. If you consider their size, how fast would they have had to leap, to become massive enough to displace a planetary object of near Earth size or greater? Superman flies, so this is not a direct strength feat where he is concerned. Could Superman with a leap do that? How could this be if he needed help to tug a planet?
Originally posted by -Pr-
Why would Superman being that powerful mean Despero was too?The only time he's been KO'd by Despero in recent memory was during Virtue and Vice. He's stalemated him and beaten him in other fights.
Magog? Superman was doing fine against him in their initial encounter. And then, later, a weakened Superman was taking on multiple copies single-handed.
Atlas had help.
You're missing the point, WB Hulk fought guys that could punch Superman across the city, maybe not beat him, but he would have to tussle a bit with them. WB Hulk did not notice them, and even after was seen far more powerful than he was when they ineffectually hit him with all of their might. Superman would not be able to stand there like that without being moved in his more consistent showings. The same goes for Magog, he did not shift the kind of weight that WB Hulk could do by casually dropping his foot. In a pure strength contest Superman is way behind in this, and the gap has the ability to grow. Gotta pass out. later.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Impressive yes but such feats are pretty hard to quantify both based on their nature and in this case the context surrounding it. Not very useful in comparisons
True enough. It's hard or impossible to quantify. The reason I see it as impressive is because it goes beyond damaging physical aspects of reality and starts damaging reality itself. But due to how reality was in flux at the time however much force was needed to start breaking reality is anyone's guess.
Originally posted by Stoic
You're missing the point, WB Hulk fought guys that could punch Superman across the city, maybe not beat him, but he would have to tussle a bit with them. WB Hulk did not notice them, and even after was seen far more powerful than he was when they ineffectually hit him with all of their might. Superman would not be able to stand there like that without being moved in his more consistent showings. The same goes for Magog, he did not shift the kind of weight that WB Hulk could do by casually dropping his foot. In a pure strength contest Superman is way behind in this, and the gap has the ability to grow. Gotta pass out. later.
I'm not missing the point; I'm just not arguing that he could beat this Hulk.
Superman weighs less than three hundred pounds. Even a normal cl100 can punch him across a city.
Originally posted by Stoic
You know that the Savage Hulk has feats like that as well? Ripping open dimensions magical or otherwise. There was a lot of power being displayed in the Dark Dimension, I mean it lit the entire place up, and it's usually supposed to be dark, hence the name.Ask yourself this if the Hulk and Betty [b]leaped (all muscle power)
at speeds great enough that they indirectly made a planet explode at the very least. If you consider their size, how fast would they have had to leap, to become massive enough to displace a planetary object of near Earth size or greater? Superman flies, so this is not a direct strength feat where he is concerned. Could Superman with a leap do that? How could this be if he needed help to tug a planet? [/B]
I'm sure he does, but I've never actually seen a scan of him doing something like that. I've heard of feats like that on his part on the forum and seen some other equally impressive showings but not any reality breaking scans or anything. I'm not saying it because they are necessary to contend with superman's feats or something just saying I've never seen a scan of savage Hulk doing is all.
Well in my opinion it's harder to tug a planet than it is to destroy it. Indirectly or not.
It's like if you planted charges next to a building and they were powerful enough to blow it up and then some. Impressive power. But then someone else planted charges underneath the building and shot it into space. Which would you find more impressive? Might not be the best example. -shrug-
Originally posted by -Pr-
Why would Superman being that powerful mean Despero was too?The only time he's been KO'd by Despero in recent memory was during Virtue and Vice. He's stalemated him and beaten him in other fights.
Magog? Superman was doing fine against him in their initial encounter. And then, later, a weakened Superman was taking on multiple copies single-handed.
Atlas had help.
Titanus?
Originally posted by Damborgson
I'm sure he does, but I've never actually seen a scan of him doing something like that. I've heard of feats like that on his part on the forum and seen some other equally impressive showings but not any reality breaking scans or anything. I'm not saying it because they are necessary to contend with superman's feats or something just saying I've never seen a scan of savage Hulk doing is all.Well in my opinion it's harder to tug a planet than it is to destroy it. Indirectly or not.
It's like if you planted charges next to a building and they were powerful enough to blow it up and then some. Impressive power. But then someone else planted charges underneath the building and shot it into space. Which would you find more impressive? Might not be the best example. -shrug-
So Destroying a planet without even touching it falls behind planet pulling?
Originally posted by Stoic
WB Hulk was at the very least be 1000x stronger than Savage before he even went to the Dark Dimension according to what was written when he easily outperformed an Augmented Bi-Beast, and Wendigo, who were said to be 1000x their base strength. This again happened before he went to the Dark Dimension, and released half of the power great enough to at the very least, indirectly destroy a planet and its moons.I can not say how powerful he was while in the Dark Dimension, because it never states this much, but it was certainly leagues above what he did to the suped up Wendigo, and Bi Beast. His resistance to damage also grew exponentially with his strength. This much is certain if judging by context.
Originally posted by Stoic
I really didn't want to go there. In my honest opinion I would place Thor at base levels to be 1/3rd or less stronger than Bi-Beast without being augmented. I'm going off of past showings in comics, and the difficulties that other characters have had when dealing with the Bi Beast, excluding the Hulk (dynamic strength is why he's excluded). It's really a loaded question, because the answer involves a lot of cross referencing.
Per your estimation, WBH was at least a 1000x stronger than Savage hulk whose base is a roughly equal to bi-Beast’s strength level which in your opinion is 3x more than Thor’s strength level.
I don’t think Thor starts off 1/3 the strength of Savage hulk because then he would never stand a chance against the Hulk whose strength is dynamic. I think Thor and Hulk are equal but Hulk gets stronger and raises his game past Thor.
So going by above, WBH is 1000x stronger than Savage hulk and then let’s say the HOM Hulk was 10x stronger then the WBH who fought the Bi-Beast, that’s still 10,000 stronger than Savage hulk, quite impressive.
Originally posted by Diesldude
Is that so? Then if superman's speed comes from strength and isn't a super power it would mean that Jurgens was right and that superman really is millions of times stronger than the hulk.
Originally posted by Stoic
I won't deny this, but the Hulk as we both know does not have a static strength level. At base, Superman just may be what you say he is. He is much stronger than the Hulk, but again that is the Hulk's base stats.
Superman Wins..
Originally posted by Damborgson
I'm sure he does, but I've never actually seen a scan of him doing something like that. I've heard of feats like that on his part on the forum and seen some other equally impressive showings but not any reality breaking scans or anything. I'm not saying it because they are necessary to contend with superman's feats or something just saying I've never seen a scan of savage Hulk doing is all.Well in my opinion it's harder to tug a planet than it is to destroy it. Indirectly or not.
It's like if you planted charges next to a building and they were powerful enough to blow it up and then some. Impressive power. But then someone else planted charges underneath the building and shot it into space. Which would you find more impressive? Might not be the best example. -shrug-
Pulling a planet out of orbit does require up to an additional order of magnitudes worth of energy than simply destroying one....however the way in which the hulk feat was performed necessitates several orders of magnitude more energy than the regular planet bseting described above.
Originally posted by carver9Yet thats not what happened. And you not what happened. They slammed into each other with enough speed to create a sonic boom. Not a standing punch.
The comparison isn't even close. If someone can punch another person and destroy a planet and two moons, that sh**s on pulling a planet.
Pulling a planet takes more power than blowing one up. However with Superman having the others help him he likely wasn't using as much strength as Hulk in his shared feat.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Pulling a planet out of orbit does require up to an additional order of magnitudes worth of energy than simply destroying one....however the way in which the hulk feat was performed necessitates several orders of magnitude more energy than the regular planet bseting described above.
It would since he wasn't actually striking the planet itself. But I have my doubts about the feat. Not to discredit it since thats impossible as it's it's incredible anyway you put it. Two people slam into each other and a planet explodes. There's no getting around that, but what doesn't make sense at all to me is that an issue later an even stronger pair of Hulk and She Rulk take direct STOMPS on the Earth and don't really damage it to the point that it endangers the Earth.
Was the planet on the Dark Dimension smaller? Or was there something going on in the dark dimension that made the feat more possible than on Earth? It doesn't add up to me is all.
Originally posted by PillarofOsirisbecause Hulk's strength is dynamic.
Enough where if they went toe to toe in a physical fight, Thor isn't going to last very long at all.
Although in theory, hulk can keep getting stronger if he keeps getting madder.
Hulk still has a human mind. There is limit to how mad he can get. This puts a limit to his strength.
Originally posted by DamborgsonWas the planet on the Dark Dimension smaller? Or was there something going on in the dark dimension that made the feat more possible than on Earth? It doesn't add up to me is all.
In the Dark Dimension time moves slower, Matter is weaker and the laws of reality do not apply to it.
This has been stated at least in 3 comics.
This rules are as important as IC context.