Originally posted by JakeTheBank
😐How exactly am I oversimplifying anything?
All I'm asking for is a reason why Prime would no sell telepathy from the Phoenix Five outside of the popular answer "he's Prime". As far as the Loebforce goes, considering that's exactly what she recalled that freaked her out, I'm going out on a limb and assume that it's a redeeming showing for Rulk considering his run of being beat up by everyone since he's stop using the Loebforce.
Kryptonian mind =/= Prime's mind. Even if Prime is more powerful overall than your average Kryptonian, we know for a fact that Prime has had his mind read before and that he's mentally unstable.
Concerning Thor, if you want to look at actual feats, I'm betting I can come up with more instances of Thor resisting mind control and telepathy than you can show me him being mindraped. So not sure where you get his record is "sketchy at best" at all, because, really it's not.
So unless Prime has any decent feats of resisting mind control and/or telepathy of any kind, it's ridiculous to assume that he can resist it as well or better than people who actually have feats doing it.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Speculation ftw. I can show you a direct quote from xemnu that rulk has no telepathic resistance. Yeah, thor has some nice feats but lets not assume he's superman or something. He's been mindraped multiple times and it isn't always moondragon. WTH jake, prime's mind=kryptonian mind and saturn queen has killed martian manhunter twice easily in psi combat, a feat unheard of. Considering saturn girl has universal level telepathy and she didn't attempt to mindrape prime, I'm going out on a limb and saying that emma would get in a coma peeking in SBP's mind. Speculations ftw.
baka
Way to miss the point like completely.
Rulk has no telepathic resistance according to Xemnu. He then scares the bejeezus out of Emma with the Phoenix Force. Rulk is a pretty sketchy character due to what he's capable of with the Loebforce - something he's been stated to be holding back from tapping into due to him wanting to retain his humanity - and how he'll get two pieced rather unceremoniously.
Thor, on the other hand, does have a storied history of resisting mind raping and psychic based attacks. Sure, he has moments of failing to them, but he also has showings of being hurt by bullets and falling debris. So, again, unless you want to try and prove Thor's history against such methods of attacks is more on the failing side than it is on the winning side, trying to discredit his tried and true history of dealing with such attacks to prove that Prime must be able to do it too based on his status is a lousy and lazy argument.
Prime has a Kryptonian mind. He's also psychologically unhinged and has plenty of vulnerable points to attack on that front. Prime doesn't get an auto-pass just because he's Prime, which is my whole point. A lot of characters didn't use their most powerful attacks on Prime, either through choice or not getting the chance to. Doesn't mean Prime would no sell them.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
bakaWay to miss the point like completely.
Rulk has no telepathic resistance according to Xemnu. He then scares the bejeezus out of Emma with the Phoenix Force. Rulk is a pretty sketchy character due to what he's capable of with the Loebforce - something he's been stated to be holding back from tapping into due to him wanting to retain his humanity - and how he'll get two pieced rather unceremoniously.
Thor, on the other hand, does have a storied history of resisting mind raping and psychic based attacks. Sure, he has moments of failing to them, but he also has showings of being hurt by bullets and falling debris. So, again, unless you want to try and prove Thor's history against such methods of attacks is more on the failing side than it is on the winning side, trying to discredit his tried and true history of dealing with such attacks to prove that Prime must be able to do it too based on his status is a lousy and lazy argument.
Prime has a Kryptonian mind. He's also psychologically unhinged and has plenty of vulnerable points to attack on that front. Prime doesn't get an auto-pass just because he's Prime, which is my whole point. A lot of characters didn't use their most powerful attacks on Prime, either through choice or not getting the chance to. Doesn't mean Prime would no sell them.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Again speculations ftw. Rulk has on panel been mindraped by a telepath who couldn't mindrape savage hulk. You can quote loebforce all you want, but there is no such thing in comics and all of that has been retconned. If emma can be frightened by rulk beating watcher and 😂 silver surfer, imagine beating anti-monitor and monarch and time trapper. She would get in a coma. It wasn't due to thor's exceptional record against telepaths which isn't as exceptional as you think, it was due to his godhood. I can see kryptonian minds doing the same to her as there is a long history of them doing it. Even a deranged kryptonian mind like prime's. Thor got a pass, rulk got a pass, but prime who doesn't has a single bad showing against telepaths even after facing such telepaths like J'onn, saturn girl and such doesn't gets one? Nice one jake.
Loebforce is just a funny way of saying "Rulk with Absorbing Powers" which haven't been retconned at all. He just doesn't use them because every time he does, he runs the risk of losing his humanity and staying Rulk forever. Not sure where you get the idea it's been retconned. If anything, it's Rulk consciously nerfing himself. You're also missing Rulk killing Grandmaster and the Defenders and facing down Galactus, as well.
How isn't Thor's record against telepathy isn't as exceptional as I think when what I think is actually the facts we've seen due to on panel proof? It's not my fault if you're unaware of those feats, but if you can't prove my stance on Thor's telepathy is wrong or misplaced outside of your claims that they are, well, you don't really have a leg to stand on. Again, if you'd like to prove me wrong or cite all the instances where Thor has been beaten by telepathy or mind based/psychic assaults and oppose them to Thor's resistance feats, by all means.
Thor gets a "pass" because he actually has a multitude of feats resisting telepathy or psychic attacks. Rulk scared Emma Frost on panel. When did J'onn or Saturn Girl attempt to read Prime's mind or psychically attack him and fail?
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Rulk scared Emma Frost on panel.
Xemnu OWNED Rulk.
SBP is a rage driven being with a Kryptonian mind. None of the P5 are doing jack to him TP wise, especially since their most adept member was powerless TP wise vs Rulk (who was owned by Xemnu).
Originally posted by zopzop
You're saying this as if it helps your point, it doesn't. PF Emma feared Rulk and couldn't do jack to him TP wise.Xemnu OWNED Rulk.
SBP is a rage driven being with a Kryptonian mind. None of the P5 are doing jack to him TP wise, especially since their most adept member was powerless TP wise vs Rulk (who was owned by Xemnu).
Let's make this easy:
What feats of telepathy resistance does Prime have on panel?
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Loebforce is just a funny way of saying "Rulk with Absorbing Powers" which haven't been retconned at all. He just doesn't use them because every time he does, he runs the risk of losing his humanity and staying Rulk forever. Not sure where you get the idea it's been retconned. If anything, it's Rulk consciously nerfing himself. You're also missing Rulk killing Grandmaster and the Defenders and facing down Galactus, as well.How isn't Thor's record against telepathy isn't as exceptional as I think when what I think is actually the facts we've seen due to on panel proof? It's not my fault if you're unaware of those feats, but if you can't prove my stance on Thor's telepathy is wrong or misplaced outside of your claims that they are, well, you don't really have a leg to stand on. Again, if you'd like to prove me wrong or cite all the instances where Thor has been beaten by telepathy or mind based/psychic assaults and oppose them to Thor's resistance feats, by all means.
Thor gets a "pass" because he actually has a multitude of feats resisting telepathy or psychic attacks. Rulk scared Emma Frost on panel. When did J'onn or Saturn Girl attempt to read Prime's mind or psychically attack him and fail?
Originally posted by abhilegend
None of the "loebforce" has jackshit to do with TP so its moot. Not to mention that rulk has lost the ability after the fight with omegex, he can only absorb gamma mutates now. None of that was mentioned, emma was scared shitless because she saw him beating watcher and silver surfer. You don't want me to go there when thor was mindraped jake, trust me. Suffice to say he's had much troubld with telepaths and none of them go nuts because he's a god. J'onn had ample oppertunity to stop prime in IC and he even read his mind, saturn girl had her oppertunity too in LO3W. None of them go nuts by seeing him kill anti-monitor btw.
No, please. Go there as far as Thor's less than impressive mental resistance feats go. I'm curious what you're basing this off of and what feats come to mind which make you think his examples of falling to mindraping > his instances of resisting such attacks. Not sure what counts as "much trouble", either.
So they didn't use mind rape on Prime means that they can't? That doesn't make sense. Thor doesn't Anti-Force people all the time. Doesn't mean he can't. Hell, Odin doesn't mindrape his opponents all the time. Doesn't mean he can't.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
No, please. Go there as far as Thor's less than impressive mental resistance feats go. I'm curious what you're basing this off of and what feats come to mind which make you think his examples of falling to mindraping > his instances of resisting such attacks. Not sure what counts as "much trouble", either.So they didn't use mind rape on Prime means that they can't? That doesn't make sense. Thor doesn't Anti-Force people all the time. Doesn't mean he can't. Hell, Odin doesn't mindrape his opponents all the time. Doesn't mean he can't.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Just off my head loki has controlled him many times, terminatrix, xavier, enchantress, moondragon etc. I'd have to go through my thor collection for more but trust me its enough to say that he's been mindcontrolled enough times.
Thor doesn't anti-force and return it from near someone. J'onn read his mind in IC that he is going to Oa and was unable to stop him. Likewise saturn girl failed to do anything to him in LO3W too. He's so messed up that black rings combusts up when he goes apeshit by sheer emotions.
And you think those examples outweigh the times he's resisted them and the people he's resisted it from? You'd be wrong in that assumption, but I'm curious if you do feel that way.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And you think those examples outweigh the times he's resisted them and the people he's resisted it from? You'd be wrong in that assumption, but I'm curious if you do feel that way.
Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't, that's why I called his record sketchy. But none of telepaths AFAIK had trouble with him because he is a god.
Emma and Rachel did for that reason. Similar to how a Kryptonian mind is generally harder to read/control than a baseline human, which seems to be the basis for Prime's argument.
The vast majority of his mental defense feats are done through sheer force of will. In any case, his positive showings outweigh his negative ones, both in quality and quantity. Nothing really sketchy about it. I'd never argue he's TP immune, but he does have extraordinary feats.
But let's say Prime is able to resist Emma. How does he fare against the Phoenix Force divided into fewer mutants, therefore becoming more potent? Can Prime no sell the raw telepathy of the Force?
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Emma and Rachel did for that reason. Similar to how a Kryptonian mind is generally harder to read/control than a baseline human, which seems to be the basis for Prime's argument.The vast majority of his mental defense feats are done through sheer force of will. In any case, his positive showings outweigh his negative ones, both in quality and quantity. Nothing really sketchy about it. I'd never argue he's TP immune, but he does have extraordinary feats.
But let's say Prime is able to resist Emma. How does he fare against the Phoenix Force divided into fewer mutants, therefore becoming more potent? Can Prime no sell the raw telepathy of the Force?
Originally posted by abhilegend
That's not a TP feat for scott though. Xavier and emma have telepathic conversation with him before.
