Originally posted by TheGodKiller
This case was somewhat different as he initiated this convo , under his own(phoenix-granted) power , though . Also that's the reason why I stated "Don't know if its mentionable or not" .
Originally posted by abhilegend
I wouldn't call that he started the conversation under his own power. I thought xavier was picking up his thoughts. These are not mentionable though, even superman has astral projected himself (no t-vo). That doesn't mean he is going to mindrape someone.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
1) Seriously? A "No U!" response? :-/ how positively witty of you. Wait, not really...You toss around childish insults, you throw a tantrum and then go TROLOLOL like a 10 year old. I'm seriously shaking my head in front of my computer when I read your posts.
We get it. You like Superman. You want him and anyone with his name to win. We like Superman, too. Heck, he's the first comic I ever collected, the first superhero movie I ever saw (and I liked him far more than I liked Star Wars back in the day) and the character I used to dress up as for on Halloween when I was a kid... Back where I come from he's like the prime example of what a superhero is (anyone from the Philippines will tell you that). I just hate it when people like you wank him so badly and treat other posters that "question his powa!" so obnoxiously that people end up disliking the character. Hell, I'm starting to feel a slight dislike for him myself cuz of ppl like you, and this annoys me.
2) When the durability of the characters Prime has damaged with his HV you pull out these feats:
You used ABC logic then did a bit of high feats cherry picking for good measure. I just called you out on it.
Like I said, cheap debating tactics.
3) You overstate SBP feats while nitpicking/undermining other's "showings". Basically, finding their worst "showing" and coming up with the worst interpretation of it.
Case in point:
You mean this?
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/12643898/WOLVERINE_X-MEN-ZONE-003.jpg.html
Colossus got punched in the face, showed NO damage afterwards, but to you, that's "getting overfought". Never mind that he was shown later on wtfpwning Glads til he was almost dead (they weren't trying to kill him, btw).
Hm. Let's check SBP's "showings" when being punched shall we?
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/blackadamfail3.jpg
MM's punch "rocked" SBP just as much Glads "rocked" Colosunaut in their fight. Is that "Prime getting overfought" by MM? Not really.
Or is it just this?: People get drawn to get "rocked" by punches all the time. But unless you're explicity shown damaged by it during the issue, then any allusion to "damage" is purely speculative.
Truth? Neither got damaged/downed by it during the issue. Thus, unless you see the world is red and blue colored glasses (like some people), neither fo them got "overfought".
Would be nice if you stopped being such a hypocrite.
4) Funny how you pull personal speculative interpretations of Thor "being shown weak" simply to downplay the "showing" Namor had during the arc. More cheap debating tactics ftl. Thing and Hulk rocking him can be attributed to him not accessing the Phoenix force defensively at the time. Use of the PForce seems to require conscious thought from its users and that their defensive ability is not from their physical body but with a form of shielding w/c is indicative of showings of not just the P5 but the Dark Phoenix as well (example: when Jean allowing a moon laser beam to kill her at the end of the DP saga).
5) http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1340/xmtdps126wk7.jpg
The Phoenix force consumes stars for food, whenever a star is consumed it goes supernova with the PForce and its host smack dab at the center of it. It doesn't just tank the supernova, it bathes and revels in it. Like I said, I doubt the heat from HV will be able to vaporize any of the P5. You can disagree, and toss random high feats to try and disguise the fact that that either one of our arguments is all just conjecture either way.
6) See? This argument is logical. Pretty solid, actually. Minus the obnoxious angry teen attitude, this would be a good point. All you have to do now is provide SBP vaporizing someone with HH+ durability with his HV. Provide that, and we can perhaps move the debate forward in a more mature fashion.
7) SMH.
8) Again, I disagree that the heat would vaporize her due to the nature of the Phoenix. We can go back on topic and debate this theory, but you'll have to step back, grow up and get back on topic.
9) Heat vision uses heat and force. I'm aware of that. Force won't kill the SBP as getting pierced, cut and shattered hasn't really killed them. The only thing left is heat.
Pulling out an example of Supes "living in a sun" as a durability "showing" when we all know this amps him up and then throwing the words "error" and "thinking before you type" is really silly, btw. Facepalm silly.
10) Because I never argued against his speed. I argued against him having what it takes to put some of them down permanently due to the nature of their abilities. W/c has nothing to do with his speed. You're just going off on a tangent to try and strawman me.
11) "Failed against him"? SMH. Making up conclusions when the debate isn't over yet only shows how delusional (or dishonest) you are. And yes you are biased. I pray whole heartedly that someday you would gain the maturity to accept the truth on the matter, but I'm sure at this point of time that possibility is still a bit far off.
12) This debate features characters that have a different supply of "feats" to them (obviously).
Getting behind a character with an obvious wealth of "feats" (by comparison) then insisting that "feats" be the only criteria for determining power levels is simply a cheap debating tactic. And you know it.
From what I've read on the debates here in KMC, we can also go by implied power as well as feats when feats themselves are limited in number.
Example: Many Abstracts not having feats but are implied via writing to be far above High Heralds. Tho I'm sure you're not far off from arguing that SBP would kill Eternity via speedblitz eyebeams retcon punch powa.
The nature of the P5's powers puts them (in 1/5th the power of the PForce) to be low trans+. Low trans+ characters with the ability to multiply their powers the more of them gets taken down. Can SBP take on 5 trans+ characters? I happen to doubt it.
13) [b]Stop lying
. I pointed out "feats".Examples:
Lying is bad you know?
As for more lies from you, lemme point out another (w/c you never addressed):
Stop lying and grow up.
14) And lastly:
Walls talking back to you now? I fear for your mental health....
Explains a lot, tho. [/B]
too long to quote so here we go
well thats your level of so called argument and your level of wit and therefor all you deserve is a "NO YOU" reply to that bullshit of yours.
u mad again? its not my fault your argument deserves all those titles, shaking your head in front of the PC? ytour condition is even worse than i thought you should go outside breath some air if an internet post make you sheak your head with nerves Lol.
superman? i thought this thread is about prime no? only shows that you are one of those groupers that got some vendeta against superman and everything relatded to DC Lol.
good for you that you used to dress up like superman it doesnt change the fact your argument is based on stupidity.
how am i wanking superman when i am discussing superboy prime? how am i wanking superboy prime when all i do is state facts about him? you know what i love? everytime some A hole got some agenda against some character he always goes with same bullshit as you "oh dont get me wrong i love the character its just that...." you know what it reminds me? it reminds me of people that always go like "oh dont get me wrong i got black friends" when you see shit like that you know he is going to be one racist mozafacka Lol same thing with you.
thats not ABC logic its just the way the things are, yes prime cut superman like butter and in order to determain how powerful that was we go for superman durability feats to see where does it stands, its not ABC logic to state that superman easily survived planetery level and galactic level explosions in order to see how powerful prime attack was, ABC logic is what you do with the phoenix 5 based on 1 dumb feat Lol.
its not tactics its just stating the feats as they are, you can cry moan and try to bypass it with dirty crap all you want, the feats and facts are on my side and there is not a single thing you can do about it.
i am asking you again genius how the hell can it be low showing if its the only showing or 1 showing among 2? what showings does the phoenix colossus has to say gladiator overpower him with a punch is a low showing? IT IS his showing because unlike prime with teen titans he doesnt have tons of showings to contredict the event, him being able to land a punch on thor does not mean the other showing was a low one.
yes it was outfoughting colossus and since you are not the sharpest pencil in the box i will explain, we see gladiator fight colossus right? we see gladiator punch colossus so hard colossus eyes are closed and by his face expression it hurts, then after that you see gladiator fight someone else there is no colossus around which means colossus was taken out for several moments and outfought by gladiator, and Lol at you bringing colossus and the other phoenix 5 beating gladiator combined Lol you are making a fool out of yourself seriously, you actually dare to bring colossus with the other phoenix 5 beating poor gladiator as some kind of showing? pathetic.
that scan is martian manhunter punching him who is >> gladiator, then we got the fact right in the next pannel prime is fine unlike colossus who we dont see in the next panel, then we got the fact prime beat the shit out of martian manhunter twice , then we got the fact it wasnt 1 vs 1 but half of DC roster vs prime combined, and what you get is you being wrong and confuced again.
i already explained the differences between the 2, prime owned MM twice already, he fought not only MM but many others combined, and he was ok after that punch we see him right in the next pannel attacked by others, colossus on the other hand got punched by gladiator and we dont see him fighting him again we see gladiator fighting someone else which means colossus went down for the count for several moments, colossus has no other wins over gladiator aside of the gang bang with the other phoenix 5 members.
speculations? its a fact that thor is overall weaker and easily taken out by things and attacks he shouldnt, overall marvel portray him weaker for some reason to the point everybody are one shoting him thats sad you are trying to use it, and second of all i already explained that it can be a PIS moment because he got owned at first by rulk and thing.
can you prove he didnt use the phoenix force? he was possessed by the phoenix force and fought them, when he finally snap rulk aram we dont see anything stating or showing that he suddenly tapped into anything new he just got pissed at them thats all, more speculations pulled out of your ass?
you are adressing the phoenix force as whole, this is not phoenix force as whole those are 5 individuals with the phoenix force therefor its 1/5 of the phoenix force durability for each, and as i said before can you prove prime heat vision is only heat? superman can survive with no trouble at all in the sun and took galactical and planetery explosions, however the heat vision cut him like butter, its a different force than just heat and its very concetrated as well, more things you would like to pull out of your ass with no backing up?
as i stated before if a hammer strike from thor was able to shatter emma and basically break her into pieces there is no reason to believe a heat vision attack wont be able to vaporize those pieces that are left.
first of all provide me durability feats from emma's shattered body that suggest she cant be vaporized, prime cut superman, killed solomon grundy, killed Green lanters with his heat vision, provide me any feats from emmas shuttered body pieces that suggest they cant be vaporized, as of right now her durability feats show us that thor with a hammer strike can shatter her into pieces which is laughable to assume a heat vision from prime wont vaporize her and the ground she is standing on.
show me batman taking a shit on panel, are you for real? just because he never vaporized anyone doesnt mean he wont do it if needed, wtf? he is the biggest jerk out there he is even more brutal than black adam this guy will do anything and there is no limit to it and if he will see that emma reforms herself he will go like reform from this and vaporize her its within his character.
first of all grow a pair and be a man to admit when you are wrong, then you can start talking with me or anyone else about growing up, you bring so much bullshit into this with nothing to back you up, you claim emma cant be vaporized by prime? based on what? what are her durability feats? she got shattered to pieces by thor she is nothing to a trans level like prime who cut superman like a butter with his heat vision, you have to do a lot of proving and if you cant just step back and admit that you were wrong, but you are not man enough for that you are just a kid.
heat vision use heat force? and? again superman took the heat of a sun and supernovas before, he couldnt take the heat vision, even heat has different degree of heat and force per squere, the heat vision is pressure combined with the heat, as we saw that pressure concetrated on small area combined with the heat easily cut superman who whitstood redicilous things that are heat based before.
yes it is valid, you are talking about heat then i bring the fact superman can live in a sun and he still got burned by the heat vision which means primes heat vision is too damn powerful because of the heat and pressure combined, hell lets take nonarch, in arena several supermans combined couldnt hurt monarch with a heat vision, prime while losing a big portion of the guardian amp hurt him with his, not all heat vision are in the same area of heat and force.
i am using his speed as another example of why and how SBP will wtf stomp those 5 clowns.
strawman you? dude i oblitirated you with feats and facts, all you do is pull things out of your ass and make a fool out of yourself, even posters like carver at this point could dominate you Lol.
yep you failed at trying to present everything you were trying to present, thats because you got no proof and no avidence on your side.
the debate was over long time ago, but the thing is you dont have the pair to admit you were wrong so you go circles with me stating the same things again and again and getting slapped by me over those things again and again, thats not debating thats you trolling.
nop thats not a cheap debating its a very valid one, you are just mad that you dont have feats to back up your imaginary bullshit and therefor every time i rub your nose against the truth you call that cheap tactics, Lol so bringing feats is cheap tactics? now i understand how your mind works and it explains your arguments, in your eyes bringing feats into a debate is cheap tactics , i will keep that in mind.
abstracts are abstracts nuff said, phoenix 5 are what exactly again? the phoeniux devided by 5 ? and we go by feats and see exactly how that helps them out Lol.
abstracts got nothing to contredict their title, however if the phoenix 5 has some implied power however then we see that feats show them as much weaker then we are going by feats because feats are >>>> all and specially implied power.
prove they are low trans level beings, not that i have too much problem with that but i would love to see where you get your facts from.
you dont bring feats just specualtions and state bullshit that doesnt relate the reality, i bring you a feat of those guys getting owned and you call that lowballing even with the facts this is either the only feat or 1 among 2, you are a joke.
walls are just more logical than you are thats all.
Did you basically gloss over what I wrote, a lot of what you said didn't address my points at all.... I'm not even gonna bother quoting the mess you put together up there, but let me address them nonetheless:
Firstly, in netspeak, when ppl shake their head they feel pity and/or exasperation. Where do you get these "shaking head from nerves" info you're using? Perhaps poor understanding explains your poor grasp of what "logical" is?
Yes, I DO have an agenda. I want ppl to not dislike the character because some obnoxious internet troll just can't live with the idea that a character CAN lose in a fight. Only 9 year olds can get all personal and obnoxious over the "my guyzs winzzza cuz of his powaaaa" arguments. The rest of us actually like a character based on the way the stories are written and what the character represents. And a lot of us actually want OTHER ppl to LIKE their fave character instead of making ppl annoyed by jealously guarding his char's battle rep. I mean, what do you even get out of this???
How do you even consider yourself a true fan when all you do is spread venom and hate about the character you love? You're not a real fan, just a spoiled little child.
But going back to your "rebuttals/responses":
1) It IS high feats cherry picking + ABC logic. It's the very definition of it. Unless you're saying that those high durability feats are the NORM for Superman. Read up on what ABC logic is and read up on what cherry picking is pls.
2) Because YOU DO FOCUS on the lowest showing among the few he has. You then go about lowballing/undermining it to the best of your ability via your lousy/biased interpretation skills.
3) Pure speculation. It can be said just as easily that he hit Colossus then flew off to save Warbird from getting killed by Magik. The story seems to corroborate this. There were tons of other Imperial Guard that Colossus could have fought in the meantime w/c would explain his absence while the story focused on Gladiator. It's pretty obvious how your lowballing mind works tho as "Colossus was down" is the only interpretation that can seem to enter your head.
4) Really?? "We don't see him next panel" is enough evidence for you? Is that how it works now? If a character isn't seen the next panel, that's enough evidence to assume that he was "overfought". You DO know in court this is seen as purely speculative and circumstantial AT BEST and would not be usable as factual evidence at all.
5) No it's not, Colossus got pushed back w/ a slight look of pain in his face. SBP got thrown back with a slight look of pain in his face. This is almost identical. Your only differentiating factor is that "Colossus is not seen next panel". W/c is really just a desperate biased speculation being presented as fact that only really works if you have a poor grasp of logic and reasoning. It really isn't fact you know.
What punching feats does MM have that make him >> than Gladiator? You might wanna open a thread about that and see how well you fare (tho I'm already expecting your main reasoning to be "because MM punched SBP and hurt him!!" 😆)
Pime owning MM has nothing to do with my rebuttal. Stop going on a tangent and stop strawmanning. It's wasting my time even more.
6) W/c Thor one shots prove that he is being written a lot weaker? What narrative on-panel evidence can you point out that proves this? If it's a fact, what proof do you have? Unless you can prove what you're saying, it's all just pure speculation.
7) Fluctuations of durability can be explained via one's degree of tapping into the Phoenix force. While I agree this is purely speculative, I'm only showing that there are other interpretations that are more feasible than your bogus "Thor's hit was weaker or its PIS" explanation. This needs no proof as I made no assertion of fact just the existence of reasonable doubt and other potential and viable interpretations. At least I admit to speculation, unlike you who constantly tout your biased opinions as facts (w/c seems to be indicative of your poor grasp of logical reasoning).
With your utterly BIASED way of looking at things, you would like ppl to believe that Thing/Rulk hurting him = norm and him tanking a full force Thor strike to the back of the head as = PIS. Really shows how your mind works (rabidly biased).
8) I had to quote this, just too too precious not to:
Originally posted by red fibber
show me batman taking a shit on panel, are you for real? just because he never vaporized anyone doesnt mean he wont do it if needed, wtf? he is the biggest jerk out there he is even more brutal than black adam this guy will do anything and there is no limit to it and if he will see that emma reforms herself he will go like reform from this and vaporize her its within his character.
You're SUCH A HYPOCRITE. You go around saying "post proof of this and that" and you turn around and go "oh but I don't need to post him doing this, it's entirely in his character.."
Hypocrite.
"but you are not man enough for that you are just a kid". LOL. Should I be insulted? I seriously hope English isn't your primary language.
9) I'm not addressing the PForce as a whole, I'm describing the nature of its host's powers. While, again, being speculative, is no more speculative than the theories you like to keep touting as fact. At least there are scans that support my theories (to an extent).
When was the last time you posted a scan proving your point in this debate??
10) Prove to me SBP vaporizes ppl (outside of an overload) on panel first or STFU. Stop being a hypocrite.
11) Do I NEED to keep explaining that the sun amps Superman??? This is not evidence of his heat resistance at all. I know that Supes has elite resistance to heat. But you using him living in the sun THAT AMPS him as evidence of heat resistance is really further indicative of your poor grasp of logical reasoning.
12) Do I NEED to keep mentioning that I KNOW that SBP's speed will be a great factor and that it has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I'M DEBATING HERE??? Again, you = poor grasp of logical reasoning.
13) The only thing you "obliterated" was your perception of reality.
14) Again, stop lying or at least read what I wrote. You trying to discount via my evidence via poor reasoning/logic =/= to me not presenting facts.
15) Low showings? You mean the hosts (who are very much mortal) getting bloodied BUT NOT EVER BEING PUT DOWN AT ALL OUTSIDE OF A PLOT DEVICE is a low showing? Their trans+ implied power was written all throughout AvX. Did you read it at all?
16) Destroying a team with several low heralds as well as a high herald is enough evidence of them being trans+. There is no questioning this.
17) You really haven't presented much evidence at all... Where do you keep getting this idea of you having this overwhelming evidence presentation w/in this debate? If you believe this, your grasp of reality might be in question.
Originally posted by red fibber
walls are just more logical
Ok, it's not in question now. You're genuinely bonkers. 💃 💃
18) The only joke here is you. Not a very funny joke. But a big fat smelly (and slightly deranged) one nonetheless.
What's funny is that with no rebuttal to my evidence of your dishonesty, you've basically admitted that you're a liar.
I guess you don't deny your dishonesty, should I call you red fibber from now on?
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Did you basically gloss over what I wrote, a lot of what you said didn't address my points at all.... I'm not even gonna bother quoting the mess you put together up there, but let me address them nonetheless:Firstly, in netspeak, when ppl shake their head they feel pity and/or exasperation. Where do you get these "shaking head from nerves" info you're using? Perhaps poor understanding explains your poor grasp of what "logical" is?
Yes, I DO have an agenda. I want ppl to not dislike the character because some obnoxious internet troll just can't live with the idea that a character CAN lose in a fight. Only 9 year olds can get all personal and obnoxious over the "my guyzs winzzza cuz of his powaaaa" arguments. The rest of us actually like a character based on the way the stories are written and what the character represents. And a lot of us actually want OTHER ppl to LIKE their fave character instead of making ppl annoyed by jealously guarding his char's battle rep. I mean, what do you even get out of this???
How do you even consider yourself a true fan when all you do is spread venom and hate about the character you love? You're not a real fan, just a spoiled little child.
But going back to your "rebuttals/responses":
1) It IS high feats cherry picking + ABC logic. [b]It's the very definition of it
. Unless you're saying that those high durability feats are the NORM for Superman. Read up on what ABC logic is and read up on what cherry picking is pls.2) Because YOU DO FOCUS on the lowest showing among the few he has. You then go about lowballing/undermining it to the best of your ability via your lousy/biased interpretation skills.
3) Pure speculation. It can be said just as easily that he hit Colossus then flew off to save Warbird from getting killed by Magik. The story seems to corroborate this. There were tons of other Imperial Guard that Colossus could have fought in the meantime w/c would explain his absence while the story focused on Gladiator. It's pretty obvious how your lowballing mind works tho as "Colossus was down" is the only interpretation that can seem to enter your head.
4) Really?? "We don't see him next panel" is enough evidence for you? Is that how it works now? If a character isn't seen the next panel, that's enough evidence to assume that he was "overfought". You DO know in court this is seen as purely speculative and circumstantial AT BEST and would not be usable as factual evidence at all.
5) No it's not, Colossus got pushed back w/ a slight look of pain in his face. SBP got thrown back with a slight look of pain in his face. This is almost identical. Your only differentiating factor is that "Colossus is not seen next panel". W/c is really just a desperate biased speculation being presented as fact that only really works if you have a poor grasp of logic and reasoning. It really isn't fact you know.
What punching feats does MM have that make him >> than Gladiator? You might wanna open a thread about that and see how well you fare (tho I'm already expecting your main reasoning to be "because MM punched SBP and hurt him!!" 😆)
Pime owning MM has nothing to do with my rebuttal. Stop going on a tangent and stop strawmanning. It's wasting my time even more.
6) W/c Thor one shots prove that he is being written a lot weaker? What narrative on-panel evidence can you point out that proves this? If it's a fact, what proof do you have? Unless you can prove what you're saying, it's all just pure speculation.
7) Fluctuations of durability can be explained via one's degree of tapping into the Phoenix force. While I agree this is purely speculative, I'm only showing that there are other interpretations that are more feasible than your bogus "Thor's hit was weaker or its PIS" explanation. This needs no proof as I made no assertion of fact just the existence of reasonable doubt and other potential and viable interpretations. At least I admit to speculation, unlike you who constantly tout your biased opinions as facts (w/c seems to be indicative of your poor grasp of logical reasoning).
With your utterly BIASED way of looking at things, you would like ppl to believe that Thing/Rulk hurting him = norm and him tanking a full force Thor strike to the back of the head as = PIS. Really shows how your mind works (rabidly biased).
8) I had to quote this, just too too precious not to:
You're SUCH A HYPOCRITE. You go around saying "post proof of this and that" and you turn around and go "oh but I don't need to post him doing this, it's entirely in his character.."
Hypocrite.
"but you are not man enough for that you are just a kid". LOL. Should I be insulted? I seriously hope English isn't your primary language.
9) I'm not addressing the PForce as a whole, I'm describing the nature of its host's powers. While, again, being speculative, is no more speculative than the theories you like to keep touting as fact. At least there are scans that support my theories (to an extent).
When was the last time you posted a scan proving your point in this debate??
10) Prove to me SBP vaporizes ppl (outside of an overload) on panel first or STFU. Stop being a hypocrite.
11) Do I NEED to keep explaining that the sun amps Superman??? This is not evidence of his heat resistance at all. I know that Supes has elite resistance to heat. But you using him living in the sun THAT AMPS him as evidence of heat resistance is really further indicative of your poor grasp of logical reasoning.
12) Do I NEED to keep mentioning that I KNOW that SBP's speed will be a great factor and that it has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I'M DEBATING HERE??? Again, you = poor grasp of logical reasoning.
13) The only thing you "obliterated" was your perception of reality.
14) Again, stop lying or at least read what I wrote. You trying to discount via my evidence via poor reasoning/logic =/= to me not presenting facts.
15) Low showings? You mean the hosts (who are very much mortal) getting bloodied BUT NOT EVER BEING PUT DOWN AT ALL OUTSIDE OF A PLOT DEVICE is a low showing? Their trans+ implied power was written all throughout AvX. Did you read it at all?
16) Destroying a team with several low heralds as well as a high herald is enough evidence of them being trans+. There is no questioning this.
17) You really haven't presented much evidence at all... Where do you keep getting this idea of you having this overwhelming evidence presentation w/in this debate? If you believe this, your grasp of reality might be in question.
Ok, it's not in question now. You're genuinely bonkers. 💃 💃
18) The only joke here is you. Not a very funny joke. But a big fat smelly (and slightly deranged) one nonetheless.
What's funny is that with no rebuttal to my evidence of your dishonesty, you've basically admitted that you're a liar.
I guess you don't deny your dishonesty, should I call you red fibber from now on? [/B]
once again too long for quote so here we go with my response.
oh come on thats lame, first you avoid all the points i made and asked you to prove because you aimply dont have anything to back up that crap of yours, then you bring up points which are easily countered by me and then you got nothing to say aside of childish remarks just like you are doing right now, you are simply continue this for the sake of continuing to fill up your inferiority complex meter which means no matter how wrong you are you wont back down just because it reminds you all your life when all you do is back down 😉
you shake yout head infront of your PC because you feel pitty over an argument where you were asked to provide evidence and you didnt? i am sorry nothing here make sense at all, unless you feel pitty on yourself which in that case is logically enough i guess.
i dont care what your agenda is, even if you got some internet agenda which i feel sorry for you already but as i said, if you got a personal agenda make sure to follow that agenda correctly and in the right way, you dont try to shove your agenda up people throats even when you are wrong, if you got a problem with people backing up superman or superboy prime for that matter then debate properly and present valid points, dont just go trolling like an A$$ hole even when the characters you dont like are suppose to win this easily, because that only puts you to shame in the first place.
whats wrong with someone stating his guy wins because he is more powerful when this is the case? if i was arguing SBP beats lets say galactus then you could use that idiotic statement of yours however in this case my guy IS more powerful so whats the problem again?
what do i get out of this? debating and having fun with people who share same love to comics as i do, you can sit back and keep shaking your head until you end up in a mental asylum.
how am i spreading hate for my character when i just argue for my character and bring his feats and facts that supress the other group? just because i am making you mad and frustrated does not mean i make other people hate the character, if you cant prove your points thats your problem not my and not anybody elses, and just for the record i dont love SBP so much, i just love him when he was on the guardian amp as superman prime thats all, without it he was an emo child and not close to the bad assery he got with the guradian amp.
superman? are you nuts? how the hell did you come to superman? we are discussing SBP and those ARE his averege durability feats because the guy just survive everything, universal explosions, anti monitor armor, being attacked by all heroes combined, he basically took anything and everything thrown at him with a smile on his face, therefor those are not picking only high end feats but those ARE his averege feats.
how is it lowballing when thats his only feat? are you mentally challenged? if a character has 1 or 2 fighting feats which portray the character at lower levels, how can they be low showings if those are his only showings? you dont have logic at all, low showings is SBP losing to teen titans when not only did he previously beat them combined with the JLA but also he has 98% of his other feats shitting on that fight and therefor that fight is a low showing, the phoenix 5 had like 2 fights each and they were hard pressed vs simple heralds so how da phuck are those low showings? you are the one who is being biased here and trying to wank your favorite phoenix force and shove your baseless opinion in people throats, you are the one who is trolling here and being nothing more than a fanboy and a troll, go wank on some birds outside if thats your thing sheeesh.
speculations? wtf? we see gladiator punch colossus so hard colossus close his eyes and he has a painful face expression on him, then next pannel we see gladiator already fighting someone else, so basically the facts of the showing tells us gladiator took colossus down and went for someone else, you are the one who is pulling baseless speculations out of his ass claiming he probably ran away from colossus Lol thats so stupid, if he was trying to do so then colossus could just teleport himself in his face again and fight him, your speculations are so dumb they dont deserve to get posted.
was it mentioned or showed that colossus was fighting someone else after the punch? was it showed gladiator running away from him while he is weilding his fists at him? so why are you pulling things out of your ass? we see colossus being punched so hard he went down with his eyes closed then we see gladiator fight someone else = gladiator knocked colossus the phuck out for several moments.
there is more to it, not only that we dont see him in the next panel but we dont see him fighting gladiator next panel, you dont have to be genious or in your case you dont have to be with averege wit to understand that if we see character A punch character B and in the next panel we see character A fight someone else that means character B was taken out of the fight.
superboy prime was punched back and he was just fine and right in the next panel we see him unhurt while being attacked by someone else already, colossus we dont see in the next panel fighting gladiator he is no longer his opponent therefor gladiator took him down and out of the picture for a while.
MM attacked prime not 1 vs 1 but while prime was attacked by half of the entire DC roster, there are 2 different times when Prime owned martian manhunter while once again not 1 vs 1 but while being attacked by groups.
MM is >> gladiator, owning superman on many occasions, crushing astroids and yes a planet sized astroid with physical strength, see thats the problem anyone who read both DC and Marvel realise without a doubt MM > Gladiator, but you are nothing but a newby comming into comics world and thinks he can debate by reading the latest marvel comics.
MM being owned by prime has everything to do with it, you chose to compare his fight with prime to the fight of colossus vs gladiator stating that if i think gladiator beat colossus by that showing that means prime got defeated by MM in that showing, then i stated its different because first of all prime didnt fight only MM but also many other groups and second of all prime has 2 other wins over MM while colossus doesnt have anything else to contredict the fact he got beat by gladiator and therefor its valid.
stop wasting your time? who are you kidding? you reply to every post i make with scrows over scrows you have plenty of time and your time is shit, basically i am doing you a favor that i bring anything to your life that you can use your time on seeing how you are around here when ever i come.
see once again the lack of comics knowledge, thor right now is portrayed greatly weaker then usual, of course there is no plot or narration statement to it however there is the fact that thor right now is portrayed at weaker levels, he gets one shotted by guys at his level of power or even weaker, he got one shotted by the freakin zodiac, therefor if his durability recieved a downfall of course his punching power and his overall power is weaker as well.
as i said before namor has 2 feats 1 of them is taking thor hammer strike to the back of the head and the other one being litterally stomped on by rulk and thing so therefor you cannot go and choose what you like among those 2 and call it the standard while calling the other low showing because just like that i can call his taking that shot a PIS and his getting his shit pushed by rulk and thing the normal.
even you admit this is your speculation, was it showed namor wasnt using the phoenix force when fighting them, was it showed he tapped into it? the only thing we see is namor getting his shit pushed in and then he got mad and broke rulk arm, i stated that it can be considered PIS to show you how much of a double standard hypocrite you are and that your logic works both ways.
dude you are indeed mantally challenged, you wanted a proof that SBP vaporized someone on panel which means A you doubt he has the power to do it and then i presented you his heat vision showings which include him cutting superman and killing heralds with it, or B you assume its not in his character and he wont use it which is even dumber , so thats why i said show me batman taking a shit on panel to portray the fact a character does not have to do everything on panel because the healthy logic knows that you idiot.
insulted? nop... think about it? maybe, you know it and it all that matters Lol, no english isnt my primary language 🙂
you brought nothing more then baseless speculations while i brought facts, you actually said that the heat vision wont hurt them because the phoenix force is eating stars and has somewhat to do with fire which is already retarded, then i said first of all present a proof that the phoenix force is imune to all forms of heat, then i stated that superman can survive different types of heat including the sun and nova explosions but he still was cut by prime because prime heat vision is not just fire like heat its heat + energy + pressure+ different power level, therefor you have no base at all to the claim the phoenix 5 are imune to the heat vision in the first place.
i post events that happened just because you dont read comics and know nothing about them doesnt mean i have to post scan of every single feat i mention, your lack of knowledge is not my problem.
how is not posting SBP vaporize someone proves he cant? if he can cut someone as durable as superman , or kill a green lantern while the green lantern is using his ring to defend it clearly proves at what power level his heat vision operates, to suggest he canot vaporize someone with that force just because he didnt do it is just retarded to unproportional levels, emma was broken by thor to pieces there is no question she will get vaporized by a heat vision that kills heralds and cut someone like superman.
it amps superman yes but it still doesnt change the fact he is imune to the heat of the sun, superman survived nova explosions, he survived nukes like nothing, do you know what kind of heat a nuke produce on impact? he survived explosions that took out planets and half galaxy do you have any idea what degree of heat those explosions produce? but of course logc and knowledge are not your strong sides at all you just need a preety picture saying "damnnnn that shit superman just take was moza****in hoottt son".
again i am giving you the speed example to adress the overall topic of why SBP owns them easily.
nop, i oblitirated your poor attempt ar arguing me based on nothing aside of your wank to the phoenix force.
you presented things that doesnt have anything to do with my points that i used to counter your speculations.
prove they were at trans level, you are saying it was writen all over? where? just because they beat thor? zodiac and tutinax also did it lately i guess they are trans levels? what did they do to show them as trans levels? and yes i call that low level feats as to what you are trying to make out of them, you claim they are trans well we got colossus taken out by a punch from gladiator, we got namor getting owned and stepped on by rulk and thing, we got emma shattered by thor strike, we got cyclops matched by gladiator and even taken down = not impressive to say the least.
i presented SBP feats that show my points, then i presented the phoenix 5 showings which clearly are low compared to the ones prime has and you still under the impression they can take him even after i rub your nose against the facts.
yeah yeah blah blah you didnt present a shit aside of your wanking while i spank you with feats and facts cry some more
nice, you just admited you are big fat and smelly, you think everybody here are like you which is sad actually but who cares right? the matter of fact is i backed up my statements and backed them up time after time with proof while all you did was insult and cry some more thats lame.
you can call me however you like, i will just call you sore loser because you cant admit when you lost, instead of learning from your mistakes for the next time you choose to insult and cry, i got nothing to say about your personality because i dont respect people like you sorry.
Stop lying/making stuff up. What SPECIFIC CLAIMS did I not address? Put up or shut up.
Stop lying. I provided evidence in every response. I even quoted you a few times to emphasize a point. How can you even say:
Originally posted by red fibber
first you avoid all the points i made and asked you to prove because you aimply dont have anything to back up that crap of yours"
with a straight face when I've LITERALLY itemized each reply to each of your points? Only pathological liars or ppl with a poor grasp of reality would say this.
Everyone has an agenda here, mostly minor (fun, boredom, etc). Why would you "feel sorry for me already"when you clearly have one? I guess to a hypocrite, behavior that they can feel sorry about is only visible when it's not them.
And btw, you're the one clearly trying to shove your false beliefs and poor grasp of logic down ppl's throats. Stop being a hypocrite.
There's nothing wrong with stating your character wins. There's something wrong to being a lying hypocritical douche, however.
It's funny you mention the mental asylum when you seem to enjoy talking to walls.
You spread hate by being an obnoxious lying douche. Clear enough for you?
How the heck did I come to Superman???? Reallyyy???
Did you read the multiple freakin quotes/statements I posted above? You USED Superman's top end feats (and ONLY top end feats) as some sort of proof of SBP's HV's intensity. You brought superman here, you dodo.
This is the VERY DEFINITION of cherry picking ABC logic. W/c is not just wrong, it's downright hypocritical.
Again, you don't read what I write, do you? At all. This is such a waste of time. Let me requote:
"2) Because YOU DO FOCUS on the lowest showing among the few he has. You then go about lowballing/undermining it to the best of your ability via your lousy/biased interpretation skills."
You know damn well that the characters have few "feats". You ZERO IN on the one or two LOWEST feat and then use extremely biased and undermining interpretation to make the character weaker even tho there's very little on panel proof supporting what you said.
BTW, when were they "hard pressed against a bunch of heralds?". Post proof pls.
Originally posted by red fibber
speculations? wtf? we see gladiator punch colossus so hard colossus close his eyes and he has a painful face expression on him,
Hm. Rolled eyes. Painful expression on him...
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/blackadamfail3.jpg
Guess this didn't happen to SBP when MM punched him right? rolleyes1
Originally posted by red fibber
then next pannel we see gladiator already fighting someone else, so basically the facts of the showing tells us gladiator took colossus down and went for someone else,
This is circumstantial AND purely speculation. You have no on panel proof that Colossus was down AT ANY TIME. Zero proof.
Originally posted by red fibber
was it mentioned or showed that colossus was fighting someone else after the punch? was it showed gladiator running away from him while he is weilding his fists at him? so why are you pulling things out of your ass? we see colossus being punched so hard he went down with his eyes closed then we see gladiator fight someone else = gladiator knocked colossus the phuck out for several moments.
Do you not understand? YES! There was NOTHING on panel that showed him doing ANYTHING! Not him fighting, not him KO'd not him tackling anyone, not him fighting any other characters.
This means that, due to the lack of evidence to confirm any of our claims, anything either of us says about what happened after Gladiator punched Colossus is pure speculation.. Why is this so hard to understand?
Of course, here comes more meaningless sidetracking on your part. MM being owned by SBP has nothing to do with my point at all. Why do you keep trying to go off on a tangent? You wanna prove MM >> Gladiator in punching power? Go make a thread then. I'm sure there are many who would disagree with you (I happen to see them as at least equals or close enough for it not to be relevant in debates, but hey, that's me).
Me being "new to comics" has nothing to do with logic. Ad Hominem more.
Originally posted by red fibber
then i stated its different because first of all prime didnt fight only MM but also many other groups
You do know that Colossus was attacked not just by Glads but with a host of Imperial Guard right? Also, what relevance does being attacked by a group have in this debate?? Pls explain.
Originally posted by red sabre
and second of all prime has 2 other wins over MM while colossus doesnt have anything else to contredict the fact he got beat by gladiator and therefor its valid.
No it isn't. :facepalm: How does a character having wins or not over another have ANY relevance to whether or not Colossus was KO'd on the panels he wasn't shown??? LOL. Do you know how logic works?
Your argument ALL boils down to Colossus not being seen in a few panels. Thus, it is PURELY speculative and circumstantial. Toss your "logic" to any lawyer/judge and see what they say.
You going off on meaningless tangents all the time IS a waste of time. Hell, this debate has pretty much deteriorated to basic flaming from both sides. W/c is also a damned waste of time.
You know what?
I DARE you to remove ALL personal attacks from your post, remove ALL attempts at tangents, remove ALL "I proved you wrong" claims, remove ALL "I posted facts and you didn't" claims and just actually provide facts via evidence.
We stick to identifying each other's theories and then post rebuttals and then post evidence (either via scans or issue numbers) to prove our rebuttals. Post only logical arguments and counterarguments.
First one to deviate loses.
I'll even let you go first by starting on your next post. Come on, I DOUBLE DAMNED DARE YOU!
I didn't pick and choose at all. I never claimed him being blooded by Thing/Rulk didn't exist or was PIS. I stated that at the high end, he can resist a direct cheapshot blow to the back of the head from one of the hardest hitting high heralds out there like it was nothing. I acknowledge his limited "showings". And I simply pointed out an alternative theory to create reasonable doubt on your theory w/c you keep touting as fact (his durability being low because he got rocked by Thing/Rulk).
The only person who picks and chooses here is you.
"therefor if his durability recieved a downfall of course his punching power and his overall power is weaker as well."
REALLY??? You post some low DURABILITY showings for Thor and that this somehow proves that his striking power has somehow gotten weaker. You phail.
It's funny that you accuse me of double standards when I actually have an explanation specifically for the purpose to explain why it isn't (that it is purely speculative either way). Again, either you have poor reading comprehension or are just so desperate you resort to lying (probably both).
Originally posted by red sabre
you wanted a proof that SBP vaporized someone on panel which meansA you doubt he has the power to do it and then i presented you his heat vision showings which include him cutting superman and killing heralds with it
B you assume its not in his character and he wont use it which is even dumber , so thats why i said show me batman taking a shit on panel to portray the fact a character does not have to do everything on panel because the healthy logic knows that you idiot.
The Surfer can basically do anything he wants with his power cosmic, doesn't mean ppl should go around arguing that he could do anything on top of their heads just cuz Surfer should be able to. Understand?
You can claim that SBP can do this, you might have convincing logic that he might. But until he does, it is a theory at best and not a fact. Get that thru your skull.
Or are you saying that ppl can basically manufacture "feats" by simply pointing out that it SHOULD be within the character's powers and personality to do so?
English not being your primary language could explain why you can't seem to grasp some very simple logic I keep repeating over and over. THAT isn't really "bringing in facts" at all.
I posted the nature of what PForce hosts have done in the past (eat stars and literally laugh at being at the heart of a supernova). This leads me to believe that the new PForce hosts should have similar resistances (otherwise, what's the point of being the Phoenix?). Is this speculation? Sure it is. But at least there's information that can lead us to believe it is entirely feasible. I am, however, not presenting this as fact but more of a theory.
I'm not arguing against the force segment of SBP's HV. I'm pretty sure they can hurt the PForce wielders. I'm arguing that it was shown on panel that shattering them or piercing them really doesn't do much to kill them. The only way to win is to actually vaporize them beyond their ability to reform (as shown on panel). Something you've yet to prove that SBP has done in the past.
I'm arguing that a HV blast w/c would vaporizing them is purely speculative as we a) haven't seen SBP actually do it to a HH or trans+ character on panel (outside of an overload). b) here seems to be evidence that point to a level of heat resistance to PForce hosts. And that, coupled with their already high durability, should be enough to survive any vaporization attempts.
I never argued against Superman's heat durability. I, in fact, acknowledged it. Do you even read anything I write? I simply stated that using the sun as a "showing" of his heat durability shows a poor grasp of logic as it amps him (makes him stronger, thus a) his durability isn't at his normal lvls, b) much of the heat/radiation is actually making him stronger, thus a lot of the heat energy/radiation might be blunted due to the nature of his powers).
And again, I acknowledged that SBP's speed will be a big problem to the P5. It still has nothing to do with the debate we're having tho as I never mentioned anything contradicting the speed argument at all. All I mentioned is that I don't see any way for SBP to permanently bring them down due to the nature of his powers and theirs.
You keep saying you disproved this and disproved that and that you won the debate when you know damn well you addressed very little of what I wrote at all.
Quite a lousy comeback on the smelly joke part, too. :-/ Guess I'll attribute that to English not being your primary language.
You just like to keep claiming I provided no proof (when I'm the only one who's even posted scans the last few pages) and that I addressed none of your points when I've even quoted you, numbered my rebuttals and tried explaining using the smallest words I can for your benefit. Yet you seem to keep repeating the same claim over and over again.
You know what? Keep on telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about yourself. You've lied to everyone throughout this entire debate. Why not lie to yourself as well?
💃 💃
The Phoenix 5.
Too often people forget to consider the context when assessing characters. The Phoenix 5 consider themselves heroes and want to present themselves as such to the world whilst having the Avengers portrayed as the villains. Therefore it is not fair to make a direct comparison between them and a villain like SBP who ruthlessly slaughters and has little regard for the consequences of his actions.
Furthermore the Phoenix 5 are channeling a sentient being with its own agenda an entity that embodies the passion of creation, destruction and rebirth on a cosmic scale, so they constantly have to rein in their power and be very controlled and precise in what they do for fear of losing control. As heroes is winning a battle, or stomping an opponent with ease worth the risk of getting caught up in the entities destructive urges, unleashing too much power and blowing up the planet?
Wielding the Phoenix Force as a sentient power with objectives and responsibilities is not the same as wielding a non sentient power like HOTI or an artifact like the IG where its power and the full spectrum of abilities they possess can be switched on and off with a thought at any desired extent by the user. That cant be done with the Phoenix Force. Using the power comes with an inbuilt sentience that will let you use its powers as long as long as its for uses that coincide with its agenda or at least dont interfere in any way. (See AOA Jean attacking Archangel in Uncanny X-Force)
All these points are why you can get a Phoenix enhanced Rachel losing to Thor (whilst a standard Rachel can dominate him) and then next thing shes defeating reality warpers and blowing up solar systems in battle.
Why you can have Jean Grey losing to Magneto in battle and then next minute shes securing the power of the M'kraan crystal or amputating timelines.
Or why Phoenix Jean can get taken out by a poison dart, killed by planetary level EMP's and the next shes bathing in stars, and shrugging off black holes
Context people. Context. Take everything into account, its a useless or extremely flawed comparison otherwise.
If for the purpose of this battle the characters are bloodlusted and they dont have to hold back, then a single one of them could take him out, as we've seen on panel in standard comic settings these characters cannot be killed. In forum settings where they dont have to hold back or consider civilians, environmental destruction etc SBP wouldnt stand a chance.
Originally posted by GalacticStormOnly an idiot would fail to recognize that most of their showings throughout Avengers Vs X-Men involve the Phoenix Five holding back per Phoenix Cyclops' orders. It's why Phoenix Namor eventually loses his patience and goes rogue. It's why Spider-Man tricks Phoenix Magik and Phoenix Colossus to go at each other.
The Phoenix 5.Too often people forget to consider the context when assessing characters. The Phoenix 5 consider themselves heroes and want to present themselves as such to the world whilst having the Avengers portrayed as the villains. Therefore it is not fair to make a direct comparison between them and a villain like SBP who ruthlessly slaughters and has little regard for the consequences of his actions.
But, again, that has everything to do with their mission and Cyclop's leadership. It has little, or nothing, to do with the Phoenixforce itself and its erratic showings when used by others.
