[i]My opinion on Vitiate has stayed pretty much the same since 2011. The fact that the guy who wrote the book and heavily contributed to the game's storyline has come out and pretty much confirmed my 2-year interpretation practically verbatim hasn't given me any reason to change my mind. [/B]
Please share this so called confirmation.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yeah, not sure what's happening. I checked the other thread in which I posted it but it's not there due to being ''deleted'' (but it's still there). Some kind of glitch.I saved it and uploaded again. It should be working now:
I tried to link them to it a few days back and it wouldn't let me, so I don't know what's up. And I can't see the links on my iPhone unless I'm logged into KMC.
But anyway, Karpyshyn's confirmation of my interpretation seals the deal for me.
I wouldn't put so much stock in it. Vitiate never performs any mental domination in the middle of a fight, even with prep, in swtor so I have no idea what he's talking about at the start unless Legend is right about that being how he defeats the strike team. Also, he himself wrote Vitiate attempting to do it 'off the cuff' in Revan and theres the matter of him doing it to his father.
Plus as I said its just his opinion, and it seems rather uninformed since he's not even sure about the actual canon ability or if theres any more info. Which there is. The Swtor codex and encyclopedia disagree with his interpretation, and as canon sources, they're >> his unofficial opinion.
Originally posted by samfreedman77
I still can't see what the crap this confirmation is, and of course it seels the deal for you. If Karpyshyn said something negative about Sidious, you'd fight tooth and nail over his interpretation.
Of course I wouldn't take his commentary on Sidious seriously... He has literally nothing to do with Sidious, in contrast to Vitiate.
But when Luceno indicated Plagueis would beat Sidious as of TPM, I neither b1tched nor flinched and took it on the chin like a man.
His words are hardly negative anyway, he simply agrees with me: Vitiate is really powerful but not at the retardedly cosmic level some choose to place him. So I'm not sure what has you so pissy lol.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I wouldn't put so much stock in it. Vitiate never performs any mental domination in the middle of a fight, even with prep, in swtor so I have no idea what he's talking about at the start unless Legend is right about that being how he defeats the strike team. Also, he himself wrote Vitiate attempting to do it 'off the cuff' in Revan and theres the matter of him doing it to his father.Plus as I said its just his opinion, and it seems rather uninformed since he's not even sure about the actual canon ability or if theres any more info. Which there is. The Swtor codex and encyclopedia disagree with his interpretation, and as canon sources, they're >> his unofficial opinion.
Actually, nowhere in Revan is Vitiate explicitly noted to be performing the feat "off the cuff"... Revan, Scourge, and the Exile were fighting outside the throne room, giving Vitiate plenty of time to get his zone on. (A point I raised multiple times.)
Moreover, nowhere to my knowledge does the codex and encyclopedia explicitly note Vitiate doesn't need prep time and ritual to achieve his ends.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Actually, nowhere in Revan is Vitiate explicitly noted to be performing the feat "off the cuff"... Revan, Scourge, and the Exile were fighting outside the throne room, giving Vitiate plenty of time to get his zone on. (A point I raised multiple times.)Moreover, nowhere to my knowledge does the codex and encyclopedia explicitly note Vitiate doesn't need prep time and ritual to achieve his ends.
Except that Vitiate hits Revan with a Force Wave right before he attempts to dominate him. Its only after that that he uses his mental power, indicating that he didn't need to prepare himself to do so since he was able to use a Force power immediately before hand.
Its implied heavily. He turned dozens of Jedi with the only elaboration being that they 'came too close to him.' This supports the idea that he can own Jedi with practically his mere presence as mentioned in the codex 'His corrupting influence is so complete that none can stand in his presence without succumbing to fear, anger and hatred.' Furthermore, he turned Revan and Malak with 'a mere fraction of his power'. Which certainly indicates a lack of prep or ritual. The fact that he's mentioned as possessing 'incalculable powers of corruption', that its credited to 'His corrupting influence' and that its 'his power' that turns so many Jedi precludes a ritual (as does the fact that theres no mention of a ritual, and that he didn't need one to attack Revan or Scourges minds in Revan) as if he relied on one it would not be his power, but a product of the ritual. That he can unleash his power so swiftly on Scourge and Revan also indicates he doesn't require prep.
Finally his own novel shows that he's talking out of his ass when he owns Lord Scourge with a brush of his mind. Fyi, the "Lord" stands for "Sith Lord". Can't do it off the cuff to a Sith Lord my ass.
Basically, the codex, encyclopedia and novel all indicate that he needs no ritual or preperation. The only thing indicating that he does is you and Karpyshan. Neither of which are canon sources.
Edit: BTW, I'm still thinking of a reply to your PM, so be patient with me on that please. >_<
Originally posted by Nephthys
Except that Vitiate hits Revan with a Force Wave [b]right before he attempts to dominate him. Its only after that that he uses his mental power, indicating that he didn't need to prepare himself to do so since he was able to use a Force power immediately before hand.[/b]
Except that that doesn't preclude Vitiate gathering his energies before hand, enabling him to let off a Force wave and still make an attempt to take over Revan's mind.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Its implied heavily.
If there are only implications otherwise, then there's no contradiction.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Finally his own novel shows that he's talking out of his ass when he owns Lord Scourge with a brush of his mind. Fyi, the "Lord" stands for "Sith Lord". Can't do it off the cuff to a Sith Lord my ass.
Except that he didn't actually take over Scourge's mind and the text doesn't explicitly note that Vitiate didn't prepare to do so or that Scourge was actively resisting him.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Basically, the codex, encyclopedia and novel all indicate that he needs no ritual or preperation. The only thing indicating that he does is you and Karpyshan. Neither of which are canon sources.
You slipped up when you confessed that all there are to the contrary are implications from an in-universe source and the codex. Until you can present ironclad proof that is irreconcilable with my Karpshyn-approved interpretation, your nobody-approved interpretation is pretty much irrelevant in my book.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Edit: BTW, I'm still thinking of a reply to your PM, so be patient with me on that please. >_<
Ok, sounds good.
Oh, by the way, don't think I didn't notice your argument that "his" power precludes the possibility of a ritual... yet you rejected that argument when it applied to Palpatine. This further speaks to what I explained via PM, just so you know.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Except that that doesn't preclude Vitiate gathering his energies before hand, enabling him to let off a Force wave and still make an attempt to take over Revan's mind.
The energies that he prepared would have been used in the Force Wave. Why would he not do so and flatten Revan against a wall if he had truly prepared so much energy?
Besides which I don't think its even possible to use the Force in that manner.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
If there are only implications otherwise, then there's no contradiction.
If theres evidence on one side and none of the other, then there isn't even an argument. You have nothing by speculation. You have no argument.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Except that he didn't actually take over Scourge's mind and the text doesn't explicitly note that Vitiate didn't prepare to do so or that Scourge was actively resisting him.
That he didn't actually take over his mind is irrelevant. If he can cripple opponents so easily then he doesn't need to, or he can do so while they're writhing in pain. He still mentally pwned him with ease extremely quickly. It doesn't make sense that he can use his mental powers like that so easily and require prep and a ritual to corrupt.
Scourge would have felt him preparing his power if that were true. 😬
According to your friend Karpyshan, its only a matter of will, right? So his will would have resisted him anyway, heh. Or tried to at least.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
You slipped up when you confessed that all there are to the contrary are implications from an in-universe source and the codex. Until you can present ironclad proof that is irreconcilable with my Karpshyn-approved interpretation, your nobody-approved interpretation is pretty much irrelevant in my book.
What arrogant bullshit. My interpretation is approved by the sources I've quotes and the arguments I've made, neither of which you so much as attempted to dispute. By his own admission, Karpyshans reply that Intrepid posted is non-official and non-canon. It is that which is irrelevant. Meanwhile the canon sources that support my argument are the only actually relevant factors.
Also stop saying that the SWTORE and the codex are in-game without proof.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Oh, by the way, don't think I didn't notice your argument that "his" power precludes the possibility of a ritual... yet you rejected that argument when it applied to Palpatine. This further speaks to what I explained via PM, just so you know.
I have no idea what you're talking about. If I did make that argument, perhaps I just changed my mind on the subject. I'm allowed to do that.
