Originally posted by Nephthys
:I''The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side’s power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen. His corrupting influence is so complete that none can stand in his presence without succumbing to fear, anger and hatred. The Emperor can wither and ruin even the strongest Jedi’s connection to the light side. Jedi Master Tol Braga’s strike team was not the first group to succumb to the Sith leader’s oppressive influence. Hundreds of years ago, the Jedi Revan and Malak discovered Dromund Kaas and confronted the Emperor. They fell to the dark side and returned to Republic space as Sith Lords. Since then, dozens more Jedi have followed the same path into evil.'
Seriously, not a single word of that contradicts my argument. Not a single word. Nowhere does it say And he does all this shit at whim and without any prior preparation! Seriously! He's that damn good! fapfapfapfapfap.
^ From the introduction of the SWTORE btw.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Sure, why the **** not?
In earlier threads, IIRC, you had agreed that DE Palps > Vitiate. I'm just uncertain as to where you stand at the moment. Because it seems like you're extrapolating quite the no-limits fallacy from a single statement. It's not as if Anoon Bondara's saber skills are really "second to none", so I don't see why we should assume that Vitiate's mental ****ery is unlimited.
Notice that the 'pedia mentions it only takes Vititiate a "small fraction" of his power to turn Revan and Malak to the dark side and make them subservient (but that they were already on the precipice), a "small fraction" suggesting that there's a finite ceiling.
Where does it stop? Dooku? Luke? The Father? After all, Tol Braga later breaks from the Emperor's mental grasp, as had Revan and Malak (partially) earlier.
Originally posted by Master Han
Where does it stop? Dooku? Luke? The Father? After all, Tol Braga later breaks from the Emperor's mental grasp, as had Revan and Malak (partially) earlier.
No one gets out of telepathic grip of Vitiate unless bolstered by external aid/means. Not even Revan could who is noted to have considerable telepathic capabilities as well.
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As far as "in-universe" argument is concerned; aren't majority of SW sources written in this manner? Few SW canon sources represent "real world perspective" of SW lore, as far as I know. Therefore, it makes no sense to discredit an "in-universe" canon source because it still may represent outsider perspective of SW lore and not a character's perspective.
Following "in-universe" sources;
1) Jedi vs Sith: Essential Guide to the Force;
2) Book of Sith: Secrets of the dark side;
- represent POV of other characters about historic events in SW lore.
In contrast, SWTOR(E) is written like a normal encyclopedia. And nothing in it indicates that a certain character is narrating the historic events.
So it would not be wise to engage in scrutiny of credibility of "writing styles" of SW canon sources without considerable knowledge in this respect. People should respect SW canon in its entirety.
The maximum liberty that fans can take with SW canon sources is that if their are contradictory accounts of same event in them, fans can highlight such contradictions or regard them as possibilities.
Originally posted by Master Han
Sounds like a no-limits fallacy to me. You think his mind-rape would work on Luke? Abeloth?
Nyax proved that it is possible to mentally dominate Luke (This event took place after Luke's effort to manipulate an artificially created Black Hole, which indicates that Luke was already massively strong at this point).
In addition, Luke resisted UnuThul's telepathic efforts to influence the Jedi Master in a circumstantial way; whenever UnuThul would attempt to telepathically influence Luke, the Jedi Master would quickly telepathically bombard UnuThul with their "shared history" in response and UnuThul would back track in response. This indicates that UnuThul himself was vulnerable to direct telepathic influence.
In the nutsehll, neither UnuThul and nor Nyax are telepathic adepts on the level of Vitiate, as per their canonical demonstrations.
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I don't know much about Abeloth's vulnerability in this aspect since she haven't encountered a foe like Vitiate. Abeloth certainly had incredible level of affinity with the Force much like Vitiate. It shall be noted that Abeloth haven't demonstrated the capability to telepathically overwhelm Luke (correct me, if I am wrong here), so this suggests that their can be a loophole in her own resistance capability with respect to telepathic applications as absurd as this may sound.
Originally posted by Nephthys
This makes me suspicious. I can get the book for £15 so I guess I could check it out myself....
Also, writing style in this book is as "3rd party like" as it can gets.
Originally posted by ares834
Isn't the codex written in universe as well? Certain entries certainly seem like it.
And certain entries certainly don't. One entry describes Malgus' thoughts for instance, another has in depth knowledge of the Rakata that no one in-universe knows, which indicates they don't come from an in-universe source. Sometimes the entries are simply framed in ambiguous ways or are purposefully vague for effect.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Tol Braga is not officially confirmed to have broken free from Vitiate's telepathic grip with his own abilities.
Originally posted by Nephthys
False.
A)
The plan to invade the Emperor's fortress succeeds beyond Master Braga's greatest ambitions. However, the Jedi find more than they bargained for when they finally confront the Sith leader in his lair. The Emperor is more than a man - he is the living embodiment of the dark side. Armed with incalculable powers of corruption, the Emperor easily defeats the Knight, Master Braga, and their fellow Jedi, twisting them all to the dark side. (SWTORE, Page 92)
B)
These fallen Jedi remain thralls of the Emperor, turned against the very people they once sworn to protect. The knight must confront these former allies and decide their fates before facing the Emperor himself. (SWTORE, Page 93)
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Braga may have managed to reduce telepathic influence of Vitiate like Malak and Revan before him but would not have broken free from it. No one managed to break free from Vitiate's telepathic influence without external aid/help; not even HoT and Revan.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Well;A)
The plan to invade the Emperor's fortress succeeds beyond Master Braga's greatest ambitions. However, the Jedi find more than they bargained for when they finally confront the Sith leader in his lair. The Emperor is more than a man - he is the living embodiment of the dark side. Armed with incalculable powers of corruption, the Emperor easily defeats the Knight, Master Braga, and their fellow Jedi, [B]twisting them all to the dark side.
(SWTORE, Page 92)B)
These fallen Jedi remain thralls of the Emperor, turned against the very people they once sworn to protect. The knight must confront these former allies and decide their fates before facing the Emperor himself. (SWTORE, Page 93)
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Braga may have managed to reduce telepathic influence of Vitiate like Malak and Revan before him but would not have broken free from it. No one managed to break free from Vitiate's telepathic influence without external aid/help; not even HoT and Revan. [/B]
Tol Braga did fall to the darkside, but as he himself says and the codex confirms, he was able to throw off the Emperor's control:
"Once a respected member of the Jedi Council and its most fervent advocate for peace, Master Tol Braga now willingly serves the Sith Emperor. His confrontation with that foe showed him the nature of true evil and revealed a powerful force he had grossly underestimated. Master Braga's failure to redeem the Emperor broke his spirit. With his pride and faith shattered, he succumbed to nihilistic despair.
Unlike Warren Sedoru and Leeha Narezz, Master Braga did not require the Emperor's oppressive domination to remain obedient. He knowingly surrendered to the power of the dark side, believing it was his punishment for allowing pride to blind him to the Sith's true nature."
