Vitiate vs. The B team

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Nyax proved that it is possible to mentally dominate Luke (This event took place after Luke's effort to manipulate an artificially created Black Hole, which indicates that Luke was already massively strong at this point).

And you conclude that Vitiate > Nyax because... 😉

Also, Luke at this point in the mythos, whilst already "massively strong", is still hardly the grand master he'd later grow to in the Legacy era. One can make the argument that he doesn't solidly surpass Yoda or Palpatine until The Unifying Force.

In addition, Luke resisted UnuThul's telepathic efforts to influence the Jedi Master in a circumstantial way; whenever UnuThul would attempt to telepathically influence Luke, the Jedi Master would quickly telepathically bombard UnuThul with their "shared history" in response and UnuThul would back track in response. This indicates that UnuThul himself was vulnerable to direct telepathic influence.

UnuThul was drawing on the Force potential of an entire species, and was so powerful that he could bend turbolaser bolts.

In the nutsehll, neither UnuThul and nor Nyax are telepathic adepts on the level of Vitiate, as per their canonical demonstrations.

Lord Nyax appears for all of a few chapters of a novel, but UnuThul has been suggested to be vastly more powerful than Vitiate, based on his feats and powerbase.

I don't know much about Abeloth's vulnerability in this aspect since she haven't encountered a foe like Vitiate. Abeloth certainly had incredible level of affinity with the Force much like Vitiate. It shall be noted that Abeloth haven't demonstrated the capability to telepathically overwhelm Luke (correct me, if I am wrong here), so this suggests that their can be a loophole in her own resistance capability with respect to telepathic applications as absurd as this may sound.

Doesn't this logic appear...blatantly circular?

So really, where is your evidence that Vitiate could mind-rape Luke? When has a foe lesser in the Force ever successfully mind-****ed a foe greater in the Force through raw power? Indeed, on quite the contrary note, the reverse usually has to apply to a large margin for a mind-**** to work. So, no-limits fallacy galore, Luke would cut Vitiate into little pieces.

A quick scan reveals a few more quotes that Legend missed, further indicating that Vitiate requires only his presence to humble others, and that his power can manifest swiftly:

'For generations, the Emperor would remain withdrawn from society. When he finally appeared, the Emperor spoke only to the Dark Council, reducing the most powerful Sith in the Empire to trembling sycophants in his presence.' - pg. 157

'Those who converse with the Voice are overwhelmed with dread and unshakable obedience. To speak with the Voice is to speak with the Emperor himself.' - pg. 163

'The legendary Jedi Revan and Malak confront the Sith Emperor in his throne room. In mere moments the Jedi lay defeated and consumed by the dark side of the Force.' - pg. 89

'By the age of ten, Tenebrae was feared across Medirass as the entire northan continent fell under his sway. Sith Lord Dramath, planetary governor of Medirass, set out to bring the boy in line. Tenebrae broke Lord Dramath's mind, but not before revealing he was actually his son.' - pg. 160

Also its revealed that Vitiate possesses 'ever-increasing power' on pg. 163. The book also has some very flattering things to say about the Imperial Guard. Wow.

Originally posted by Nephthys
A quick scan reveals a few more quotes that Legend missed, further indicating that Vitiate requires only his presence to humble others, and that his power can manifest swiftly:

'For generations, the Emperor would remain withdrawn from society. When he finally appeared, the Emperor spoke only to the Dark Council, reducing the most powerful Sith in the Empire to trembling sycophants in his presence.' - pg. 157

'Those who converse with the Voice are overwhelmed with dread and unshakable obedience. To speak with the Voice is to speak with the Emperor himself.' - pg. 163

'The legendary Jedi Revan and Malak confront the Sith Emperor in his throne room. In mere moments the Jedi lay defeated and consumed by the dark side of the Force.' - pg. 89

'By the age of ten, Tenebrae was feared across Medirass as the entire northan continent fell under his sway. Sith Lord Dramath, planetary governor of Medirass, set out to bring the boy in line. Tenebrae broke Lord Dramath's mind, but not before revealing he was actually his son.' - pg. 160

Also its revealed that Vitiate possesses 'ever-increasing power' on pg. 163. The book also has some very flattering things to say about the Imperial Guard. Wow.

lol

The first quote doesn't mention Force power or telepathy at all, merely that he scares the shit out of the Dark Council.

The second quote doesn't contradict the fact that we know Revan and Malak were being led into a trap. So Vitiate broke two guys already falling to the dark side "in mere moments" on a dark side nexus after preparing an elaborate trap for them.

The third quote also fails to mention a time table for this feat.

The evidence is piling up bro.....

Nigga, plz.

I had that book in my hands before you, LeGenD, or Beefy. There's nothing in it that will surprise me or that I can't counter.

biscuits

You can counter all you want, but when so many quotes agree with my interpretation, you voice will seem feeble to me.

The first quote isn't explicit in of itself, but when coupled with the 4 other quotes all saying that Vitiates presence is corrupting in and of itself, it becomes indicative of a pattern of evidence. If it was just that quote from the codex that said 'His corrupting influence is so complete that none can stand in his presence without succumbing to fear, anger and hatred.' I'd be inclined to agree with you that its crap. But numerous other things support it as being true, at least in that his presence in corrupting in itself.

The second third is evidence for how long his power takes to affect his opponents. 'Mere moments' is pretty impressive.

The fourth that he doesn't require prep since his father attacked him and also that he can break minds. Even at such a young age he was capable of it.

But I don't really want to get into another argument. I just wanted to get the quotes out there and added to Legends before I forget about them.

haermm

I seem to recall accumulating quotes and passages over the years about Vitiate's limitations (which were then confirmed outright by the guy who wrote said passages and quotes lmao) and watching as they were bluntly rejected by the character's most ardent fanboys.

So perhaps now you have a glimmer of understanding of my position. And I'll have an understanding of yours when I ruthlessly pick them apart and disregard them due to their lack of conclusiveness. excellent

Much of that could be potentially averted if you'd just respond to the damn PM, coward. ahuh

The first two quotes do not explicitly refer to any Force-based persuasion, influence, or suggestion. They could easily refer to fear of the totalitarian dictator of a ruthless empire of mystical cultists. The fact that people shat their pants in the presence of Vader doesn't necessarily mean he was using the Force to induce the heebie-jeebies.

Again, we know that Vitiate was luring Revan and Malak into a trap on a dark side nexus. It could very well mean that, in light of such preparation, it only took "mere moments" to bring them down. Who's to say it would go as quickly in a confrontation that's not on a dark side nexus and that Vitiate hasn't prepared for?

The quote about his father doesn't mention a time table, so you can't conclusively determine that it was off-the-cuff.

(which were then confirmed outright by the guy who wrote said passages and quotes lmao)

The fact that people shat their pants in the presence of Vader doesn't necessarily mean he was using the Force to induce the heebie-jeebies.

Originally posted by Thor Is Girly
Has anyone seen this? You keep husing that but I don't think it means what you think it means.

Yes. Drew said that based on things that occured in SWTOR (that never actually happened) Vitiate could use his telepathic abilities in combat 'provided he has time to prepare and concentrayte' and that its partially dependent on the will of the opponent and against a Jedi Master or Sith Lord he isn't going to be able to do it off the bat.

He also said it was his non-official answer and he's not sure about the actual canon version of the technique.

Originally posted by Thor Is Girly
Has anyone seen this? You keep husing that but I don't think it means what you think it means.

Neph saw it, Intrepid37 provided it.

Originally posted by Thor Is Girly
Except the better comparison is how Vader shat his pants in front of Sidious, which is how the dark council shat their pants in front of Vitiate.

...And, as far as we know, Sidious didn't do any of that with the Force. He's just scary. Don't know why I should assume Vitiate was using the Force.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes. Drew said that based on things that occured in SWTOR (that never actually happened) Vitiate could use his telepathic abilities in combat 'provided he has time to prepare and concentrayte' and that its partially dependent on the will of the opponent and against a Jedi Master or Sith Lord he isn't going to be able to do it off the bat.

He also said it was his non-official answer and he's not sure about the [b]actual canon version of the technique. [/B]

Thank God for your completely bias-and-slant free interpretation, Neph! You're like the Fox News* of Star Wars debates. 👆

**Should be MSNBC, but you dislike Fox more.

If you'd bothered to give your own, it might have been bias free. Don't hate when you couldn't even be bothered to type it up yourself.

Also its not slanted. Thats literally what he said iirc.

Originally posted by Nephthys
If you'd bothered to give your own, it might have been bias free. Don't hate when you couldn't even be bothered.

Because I don't have a copy of it saved nor do I have it memorized, ergo I keep telling him to contact the guy who actually has it (Intrepid37).

Yay, so I still haven't seen it. And if it's DE's interpretation, then it doesn't help you Gideon. Someone give me the actual post.

Wow, you couldn't even remember the thing you keep throwing around like a free-4-all whore? And I could after looking at it once?

Also its not slanted. Thats literally what he said iirc.

Beefy
Yay, so I still haven't seen it.

Telling you to contact Intrepid37 for the twentieth time hasn't helped, so should I put it in CAPSLOCK and bold red?

Beefy
And if it's DE's interpretation, then it doesn't help you Gideon. Someone give me the actual post.

Nah, I'm going with the interpretation of the guy who actually wrote the book about the wankified character and contributed to the game's writing than the interpretation of men and women who seek only to wank him further. Karpyshyn has no reason to undersell him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wow, you couldn't even remember the thing you keep throwing around like a free-4-all whore? And I could after looking at it once?

Also its not slanted. Thats literally what he said iirc.

I remember the gist of it, not verbatim.

Intrepid, give me the quote or die.

Well I do and thats literally what he said, just summerised.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well I do and thats literally what he said, just summerised.

😐

If it's summarized, then it can't be literally what he said, fatass.

Nah, it can.