Originally posted by Nephthys
There is nothing suggesting they're seperate techniques at all.
One is in the form of a lazer that drains the force from someone, the other is cutting them off from the force then feasting on their life energy. In KOTOR II if you go DS, when the Exile absorbs the Masters life energy Nihilus style it looks completely different.
Which is something of a misnomer. Force Drain is a different technique to Nihilus' attack, which works by creating a Force Bond with the target, severing the targets connections between the force and only then draining the Force. Kreia says that this technique can only be leaned instinctively rather than taught. Its a different technique to Force Drain.
No, it's a stretch to assume they're different techniques. Throughout the game only one technique is ever spoken of. Nowhere is it ever suggested that theres two techniques. The Council say that the Exile and the Sith use the same technique. Kreia instructed Nihilus on how to better use his technique. Kreia says that the technique Nihilus uses damages the Force. When you examine the Jedi Masters it says that they are absences in the Force.
Except if the Exile was running around creating absences in the force it would surely have been noticed by her force sensitive companions. Nor did the Exile run around shooting beams of orange light from her chest.
Its the same technique.
That's actually a really good hypothesis. I'm going to steal that. 🥷
Thank you 😄
For one thing, Revan was a powerful user of Tutaminis, which Kreia should know about since she was his master both before and after he became a Sith and yet she still says that the technique is unblockable. And its not as if Tutaminis is a secret technique that she wouldn't know about. She's both a Jedi Master and Sith Lord after all and has access to Trayas Academy.
Prove that pre mind-wipe Revan was a competent Tutaminis user. And considering that the only user of Tutaminis that we ever see during TOR era are Satele and Revan, it can be assumed they were the only users. Even the Exile never attempted to catch lightning and she was probably the strongest Jedi after Revan.
Secondly, it is only speculation that it can be blocked by Tutaminis, there is absolutely no evidence.
It is only speculation that it can break Tutaminis. Character statements are often full of fallacies.
Thirdly, I find it illogical that none of the Jedi on Katarr knew Tutaminis and didn't try to block Nihilus' attack. As Unseen, Unheard showed us, the population of Katarr had time to react to Nihilus.
First off my entire argument in the first place is that Kreia's force drain is different from Nihlus' that's irrelevant. My entire point is that Nihlus' life wiper is unblockable, however Drain lazer is.
Second, there were only a hundred Jedi on that planet. The most notable Vandar Tokare was more respected as a swordsman and a Telekinetcs master than a Tutaminis user. When 300 Jedi went to Geonosis not a single one was a master of Tutaminis. In fact only Yoda of 10,000 Jedi has been shown to be capable of blocking/ redirecting Sith Lightning.
Fourthly, Tutaminis has never blocked even Force Drain.
And lastly, the unique way in which the technique works as I have detailed and explained make it possible and not at all illogical that such a technique as Tutaminis would be unable to block it.
The draining lazer? I disagree. It is tangible, a tangible wave of energy that leaps out from the users hand in an orange lazer. That is nothing like the invisible wave of death Nihlus uses, which looks more like an unblockable technique.
And yes Tutaminis is used to stop harmful energies from reaching the user. Force drain is a harmful energy in lazer form and there is no reason to presume that it would not be able to be blocked by a sufficiently powerful force user.
Can i please get a quote for this? I'm currently talking about the same thing with Arheal.
"A Jedi sufficiently strong in the Force can be trained to produce a facsimile, but not true Sith lightning, which, unabated, has the power not only to incapacitate or kill, but to physically transform the victim. Force lightning requires strength of a sort only a Sith can command because we accept consequence and reject compassion. To do so requires a thirst for power that is not easily satisfied. The Force tries to resist the callings of ravenous spirits; therefore it must be broken and made a beast of burden. It must be made to answer one's will. But the Force cannot be treated deferentially. In order to summon and use lightning properly, you will someday have to be on the receiving end of its power, as a means of taking the energy inside yourself."
No, why do you think that? It's the same technique, just used on a larger scale. If Nihilus used the technique to its fullest extent then he would have killed his own crew and Visas, who he has a Force Bond with.
Also theres the posibility that the technique simply hit the Exile first and the damage he took from that caused him to stop do it, like he recoiled in pain.
Seriously, **** that guy.Even though I like his storyline in TOR, **** him.
How is that completely different? It doesn't need to say anything, it's pretty obvious that she used the technique and thus fed on their deaths. Just because it does explicitly say 'yo dawg she drained them and was empowered by them' doesn't mean thats not what happened. The developers just gave us a tiny bit of credit and assumed we could figure that out on our own. The only thing suggesting its a different technique is you and your basing that off of nothing.Also:
'Drained of Life.'
And btw after she drains them she goes to Malachor and pimpslaps Sion around after killing half a dozen Sith Assassins without even exerting herself. [/B]
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
He assumes they are the same technique, but Nihilus is vastly more powerful than Kreia. Hence, his drain is, as well. I wouldn't say they do completely different things.
One technique is invisible and rips the flesh off of a being's bodies and create fires across the planet's surface. The other technique fires a lazer that drains someone's Force energy until there is nothing left.
Nihlus' technique looks like Thought Bomb, Kriea's looks exactly like Force Drain.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
One technique is invisible and rips the flesh off of a being's bodies and create fires across the planet's surface. The other technique fires a lazer that drains someone's Force energy until there is nothing left.
Nihlus' technique looks like Thought Bomb, Kriea's looks exactly like Force Drain.
Where do you get the idea that it's invisible?
Still, Nihilus' power is described as a drain within the game. A vastly more powerful drain than Kreia's. It's implied that it's a drain so powerful that it does what you just described, but it's still Force Drain, like Kreia's. Even though it 'looks like a thought bomb', there's absolutely no reason to believe it is similar because it's never even suggested. Drain is the word they use to describe it...
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Where do you get the idea that it's invisible?Still, Nihilus' power is described as a drain within the game. A vastly more powerful drain than Kreia's. It's implied that it's a drain so powerful that it does what you just described, but it's still Force Drain, like Kreia's. Even though it 'looks like a thought bomb', there's absolutely no reason to believe it is similar because it's never even suggested.
Give me a quote of it being called a drain once in game.
“It is the teaching of these new Sith, to feed on others, on other Force Sensitives. They are symptomatic of the wound in the Force. You are a breach that must be closed. You transmit your pain, your suffering through the Force.”
That seems like a drain to me. Feeding on other and leeching their energy I mean.
In the game it looks the same. In the game it does the same thing. And in the game there is a huge focus on this specific ability and it's even utilized, albeit to a lesser degree, by the Sith Assassins. Yes, nothing straight up says Kreia is doing the exact same thing as Nihilus, but through any application of the higher brain functions one will realize that she obviously is.
Originally posted by Nephthys“It is the teaching of these new Sith, to feed on others, on other Force Sensitives. They are symptomatic of the wound in the Force. You are a breach that must be closed. You transmit your pain, your suffering through the Force.”
That seems like a drain to me. Feeding on other and leeching their energy I mean.
And yet Kreia says it cannot be taught. Are we also to assume fodder Sith assassins can solo the likes of Yoda with unblockable force drain.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
It's certainly not a giant orange beam.
Gameplay animations are not necessarily canon. I'm sure that swirly lines don't actually twirl around someone when you Force Stun them.
Unseen, Unheard comes after Kotor II and therefore overrides how it depicts the technique.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
And yet Kreia says it cannot be taught. Are we also to assume fodder Sith assassins can solo the likes of Yoda with unblockable force drain.
They can't use it like that. Recall that Kreia actually describes what they do, they form bonds with others and grow in strength depending on how powerful those around them are. It's an in-game explanation for why enemies scale in difficulty to your level.
Originally posted by ares834
In the game it looks the same. In the game it does the same thing. And in the game there is a huge focus on this specific ability and it's even utilized, albeit to a lesser degree, by the Sith Assassins. Yes, nothing straight up says Kreia is doing the exact same thing as Nihilus, but through any application of the higher brain functions one will realize that she obviously is.
Originally posted by Nephthys“It is the teaching of these new Sith, to feed on others, on other Force Sensitives. They are symptomatic of the wound in the Force. You are a breach that must be closed. You transmit your pain, your suffering through the Force.”
That seems like a drain to me. Feeding on other and leeching their energy I mean.
Originally posted by Arhael
To be honest I never believed them. Because she did not dominate anyone and did not leach any power.
She does. Early in the game if you attack people Atton is compelled to attack them too and then wonders why he did that. Also as you gain more influence over people, their alignment changes to match yours. Kotor 2 is a brilliant game in that even gameplay mechanics are incorporated into the plot.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
If you use your higher brain function you'll realize that it makes no sense for fodder Sith assassins to be able to use a technique that is unblockable. And you will see that Kreia says it cannot be taught and yet Vrook says that they are teachings
And they can't use it to the height that Nihilus or even Traya can. They don't use it to kill, only to leech on the strength of their opponents. Kreia, hell even Vrook, says all this.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Gameplay animations are not necessarily canon. I'm sure that swirly lines don't actually twirl around someone when you Force Stun them.
Unseen, Unheard comes after Kotor II and therefore overrides how it depicts the technique.
They can't use it like that. Recall that Kreia actually describes what they do, they form bonds with others and grow in strength depending on how powerful those around them are. It's an in-game explanation for why enemies scale in difficulty to your level.