Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
That isn't gameplay it is scripted to happen and qualifies more as a cutscene.
Yes, which uses gameplay animations.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Sure
Gooooooooood.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
It doesn't matter. Kreia says 'there is no defense' and 'it cannot be learned' and yet they do learn it. My entire point was that Nihlus' mastery was unique. And when it is at that level it is unlearnable and unblockable. Kreia's on the other hand like the Sith Assassins is learnable and quite possibly block able.
Kreia says that the technique can't be learned when she's talking about the Sith Assassins though, and that what Nihilus does it 'simply what they too could achieve, given time.' And she doesn't say that it can't be learned, only that it can't be taight conventionally but learned through instinct. And as for how they learned it:
“What if other Jedi went to war as you did, suffered the same events, and emerged as you did. What if there was a crucible that trained such Jedi to consume and kill?”
What exactly do you think they learn in Malachor's academy? 😉
Originally posted by Nephthys
She does. Early in the game if you attack people Atton is compelled to attack them too and then wonders why he did that. Also as you gain more influence over people, their alignment changes to match yours. Kotor 2 is a brilliant game in that even gameplay mechanics are incorporated into the plot.
It had just occurred to me, but Leia and Vader should have -technically- become Force Wounds. Having Alderaan blow up in that proximity....
Eh, maybe its Chosen One blood or whatever.
What I would like to know is this: Tutamnis blocks harmful techniques, and that statement is completely open-ended. Now, do we believe the statement of somebody or other as to exactly what that technique does, or do we believe the person that has only recently become a usable source instead of being dismissed as a complete liar?
I must remind you, Kreia does tend to lie. Especially when it serves her own ends. I honestly take what she says and consider half of it the truth, the other half being something to further her goals. Which, I must remind you, include killing the Force. That would pretty much require Nihilus or the Exile, and in true Sith fashion, she has them fight it out to see which is stronger.
It had just occurred to me, but Leia and Vader should have -technically- become Force Wounds. Having Alderaan blow up in that proximity....
Eh, maybe its Chosen One blood or whatever.
If you want to assume that she's lying, fine. You'll never prove it though.
And Tutaminis has been described as a 'reverse force drain'. It defects or absorbs harmful Force energies. Except this technique at its core isn't a direct energy attack.
"As much as one may use the Force to bolster the wills and strengths of others, the reverse is possible, though not often used. Instead of sending one's will through connections in the Force, instead such connections are drawn upon, fed upon, and drained completely."
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
One is in the form of a lazer that drains the force from someone, the other is cutting them off from the force then feasting on their life energy. In KOTOR II if you go DS, when the Exile absorbs the Masters life energy Nihilus style it looks completely different.
The Force is life energy, remember? That's why when you click on the Jedi Masters is says that they're 'Worse than dead. They are absences in the Force.' Also recall that the description of what the Exile and Nihilus does refers to them draining 'life energy' to regain/strengthen their connection to the Force
No it looks the same, except that its purple for some reason. Also, gameplay animations. 😬
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I agree that it is a different technique. Kreia's is in my opinion closer to Force Drain than Nihlus'. Darth Nihlus' attack created fires in cities and rended the flesh from people's bodies. How does that compare to Kreia's technique./b]
It's larger in scale. 😉
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
[B]Except if the Exile was running around creating absences in the force it would surely have been noticed by her force sensitive companions. Nor did the Exile run around shooting beams of orange light from her chest.
Unless they were being controlled by her somehow not to question her. No, but that's impossible. The Jedi Masters do say that they see the death of the Force in the Exile just as much as they do in Nihilus, as does Kreia.
She actually does do that if you kill the Jedi Masters. I assume that in the other cases the amount drained is just too small to be noticable or to create a visual transfer of power.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
That is a logical fallacy.
Deal with it.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Thank you 😄
The only problem is that I'm not too sure if Force Bonds lose their potency over large distances. mmm
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Prove that pre mind-wipe Revan was a competent Tutaminis user. And considering that the only user of Tutaminis that we ever see during TOR era are Satele and Revan, it can be assumed they were the only users. Even the Exile never attempted to catch lightning and she was probably the strongest Jedi after Revan.
Well he certainly didn't learn it after his mind-wipe. Revan was barely trained in Kotor, and we don't see him learn an advanced technique such as Tutaminis and after Kotor his relationship to the Jedi Order was broken and he lived with Bastila on Coruscant.
Bullshit is that a safe assumption. There must be knowledge of the technique since Satale learned it. Where would she learn it unless it was known to the Jedi Order? And where would Revan learn it? Kreia has access to all the places that Revan studied at.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
It is only speculation that it can break Tutaminis. Character statements are often full of fallacies.
Her words have not been proven fallacious yet.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
First off my entire argument in the first place is that Kreia's force drain is different from Nihlus' that's irrelevant. My entire point is that Nihlus' life wiper is unblockable, however Drain lazer is.
And there is still no evidence for that. Plus, they are the same technique.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Second, there were only a hundred Jedi on that planet. The most notable Vandar Tokare was more respected as a swordsman and a Telekinetcs master than a Tutaminis user. When 300 Jedi went to Geonosis not a single one was a master of Tutaminis. In fact only Yoda of 10,000 Jedi has been shown to be capable of blocking/ redirecting Sith Lightning.
False. Plo Koon and Obi-Wan have shown proficiently with Tutaminis. Also Rahm Kota was a master of it as well.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Irrelevant considering that a Force Drain user of prodigious skill has never been matched against a Tutaminis user of prodigious skill. The only one that we have is Darth Malak, and Revan defeated him without being a hole in the force or dying.
Probably because Force Drain is perfectly blockable by a standard Force shield.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
The draining lazer? I disagree. It is tangible, a tangible wave of energy that leaps out from the users hand in an orange lazer. That is nothing like the invisible wave of death Nihlus uses, which looks more like an unblockable technique.
And yes Tutaminis is used to stop harmful energies from reaching the user. Force drain is a harmful energy in lazer form and there is no reason to presume that it would not be able to be blocked by a sufficiently powerful force user.
We've already dealt with this. No need to rehash arguments.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
"A Jedi sufficiently strong in the Force can be trained to produce a facsimile, but not true Sith lightning, which, unabated, has the power not only to incapacitate or kill, but to physically transform the victim. Force lightning requires strength of a sort only a Sith can command because we accept consequence and reject compassion. To do so requires a thirst for power that is not easily satisfied. The Force tries to resist the callings of ravenous spirits; therefore it must be broken and made a beast of burden. It must be made to answer one's will. But the Force cannot be treated deferentially. In order to summon and use lightning properly, you will someday have to be on the receiving end of its power, as a means of taking the energy inside yourself."
Thanks. I hope you're reading this Arheal.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I disagree with you on that. In unseen unheard Nihilus doesn't fire a giant orange lazer from his hand. He uses a word and wipes out all life on the planet.
As I said the word is probably just a fancy way of saying it. This isn't an anime, Force Users don't need to call out their attacks. As for it looking different, its just artistic differences. The same way that Force Drain is represented as red lightning in some material and a orange laser in Kotor.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Considering the tech he used in Unseen Unheard was intangible, I doubt it.
Actually as I recall it we can see it destroying a building in one panel.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Storyline it TOR was kinda disappointing for me honestly.
TOR is awesome imo. Revan was not.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Aesthetically the techniques look different entirely.
They do completely different things.
Their scales are radically different.
And yet you assume they are the same technique. And you say there is no counter to it based on a single (rather dubious) character statement.
Already dealt with all of this.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
And Kriea was always that strong. Or did you miss her Telekinetically pimp slapping three Jedi Masters with TK, then telling the strongest one to sit the **** down AGAIN with another TK. The Sith Emperor became fricken immortal from using the technique, Nihlus was virtually immortal through his helm, likely because of the power he'd absorbed. Darth Malak was empowered through Force drain and it was obvious in-game. Kreia in the meanwhile...showed no improvement.
Theres no way to prove that she wasn't boosted by it.
Originally posted by NephthysI'm not assuming she is lying, I was just saying I always try to make sure something she says has another (i.e. more reliable) source than a Sith who has no compunctions against lying for her own gain.
If you want to assume that she's lying, fine. You'll never prove it though.And Tutaminis has been described as a 'reverse force drain'. It defects or absorbs harmful Force energies. Except this technique at its core isn't a direct energy attack.
"As much as one may use the Force to bolster the wills and strengths of others, the reverse is possible, though not often used. Instead of sending one's will through connections in the Force, instead such connections are drawn upon, fed upon, and drained completely."
"Reverse Force Drain" has nothing to do with it imo, but the fact is that its stated to block harmful Force techniques, and, while I can not remember exactly who said that, I have a gut feeling they would be mroe reliable than the, "I am trying to use/kill you, so heres what my best technique is, what it does, how it works, and other random facts, like you can't learn it, nor can you block it. So don't try to fight me because I will use it on you."
Originally posted by NephthysBecause I honestly doubt she knew the Exile was absolutely immune. Suspicious of it? Sure. She may have had thoughts, but there are only 2 examples of a Force Wound, and I have a LOT of doubts she tried it on the other example.
But Kreia wanted the Exile to kill her.And why try to make sure that someone who is immune to it anyway won't try to block it?
Especially considering how the other example didn't know of the immunity himself. If anything, Kreia would learn that from Nihilus.
But Kreia didn't want to fight the Exile until after she'd already defeated Nihilus. Her whole plan was to lure the Exile to Malachor and kill her there to create a ripple that would kill the Force. But only after Nihilus had been killed.
Therefore there's no need for her to lie about that. By the time she plans to actually fight the Exile she'll either know that she's immune, or the Exile will have been killed by Nihilus.
Originally posted by Nephthys
If you want to assume that she's lying, fine. You'll never prove it though.And Tutaminis has been described as a 'reverse force drain'. It defects or absorbs harmful Force energies. Except this technique at its core isn't a direct energy attack.
"As much as one may use the Force to bolster the wills and strengths of others, the reverse is possible, though not often used. Instead of sending one's will through connections in the Force, instead such connections are drawn upon, fed upon, and drained completely."
Why do I have to prove she is lying, I don't have to prove a negative, you have to prove she is telling the truth.
And Tutaminis being reverse force drain only further enhancing the theory that it can be used to block giga drain. And the technique is a direct energy attack, the difference is it drains energy rather than dissipates it. 💃
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Why do I have to prove she is lying, I don't have to prove a negative, you have to prove she is telling the truth.And Tutaminis being reverse force drain only further enhancing the theory that it can be used to block giga drain. And the technique is a direct energy attack, the difference is it drains energy rather than dissipates it. 💃
Proving that someone is lying isn't the same as proving a negative. In fact it would be closer to that to ask me to prove that she's telling the truth. I can't prove that theres no defense, just like I can't prove there's no tooth fairy. Therefore, the fact that no defense has been shown is proof enough.
No it isnt.
Also please stop posting those dancing bananas, its starting to look disrespectful.