Cell vs Broly

Though he wouldn't of been able to do it without the other Z fighters' assistance. Piccolo and the others bought Gohan much of the time needed for him to hold Cell off, while Vegeta's attack was enough of a distraction for Gohan to finish him off.

True but Gohan's attack had to be so far above Cell's PL to not only damage him but to take him out completely. Vegeta's Final Flash was able to cut Cell in half iirc yet not enough to kill him. Goku also took out half of Cell with a powerful attack yet it didn't kill him. Cell's own explosion (Which killed Goku) wasn't even enough to take him out.

Cell was distracted but his PL was still crazy high and at half strength Gohan completely obliterated him. Completely destroyed every single cell in his body. At half power.

That makes it pretty clear that Super Duper Cell was still weaker than half of SSJ2 Gohan

It's kinda hard to measure just how much he was above Cell after Cell returned from self-destructing, but being able to disable one of Gohan's arms and thus cutting his strength in half at least says something as far as Cell's power increase, since before he couldn't damage Gohan with even the distructo discs or anything.

He was badly injured because he didn't block the attack he just took it full force to protect Vegeta. The good guys have shown that they can be harmed by vastly inferior attacks if they aren't prepared while the baddies usually mantain their durability at all times. Like when Broly tanked Vegeta's attack while just walking to Goku yet Krillin hurt Goku with a rock while he was resting.

Seeing as how Vegeta still remarked on how much weaker Gohan had gotten and how "soft" he became when going SSJ2 in front of Kibito, it's not a guarantee that he was still above Cell just because he could still access SSJ2. Either way, Dabura pretty much made him look like a complete amateur who hadn't really fought before when he faced him.

I know that there is no guarantee about where his PL actually was compared to his teen self but there was no indecation that he fell to less than half of what he had. And him at half was still superior to Super Duper Cell. Just my opinion.

Alternatively, the reason Gohan at half power could kill Cell was because on top of being distracted, the Z-fighters attacks were gradually weakening him as well.

Didn't really look like they were have too much effect on Cell except annoying him imo.

EDIT: And even tho he was distracted Gohan had to have enough power to completely obliterate Cell so he coudn't regen. He had that much power at 1/2

Kay, finally just read the manga version.

Piccolo confirms that Gohan's ki is weaker than Cells at the time, though later Goku says Gohan was holding back. Vegeta does his attack, Gohan goes all out, and Cell gets killed.

So either Cell was weakened enough from Vegeta's attack so Gohan could beat him with half his power or Gohan really did have more than half because he was holding back. My guess is a little bit of both.

Don't forget to vote!

Vegeta's attack barely registered to Cell. Id have to say Gohan's attack was just that powerful

Originally posted by Damborgson
I'm talking about perfect cell. Not super perfect cell. I doubt they were referring to Dabura as having the power that Cell had after he regenerated. But if that were the case it still wouldn't be a bad feat since he beat him with one arm.

Likely as thats the version Goku fought, but its SP Cell in this fight with Broly.

SP Cell was approaching SS2Gohan's level so he's stronger than Dabura who is above adult Gohan.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Goku said that he thinks Dabura is on Cell's level.

Then he says Dabura is stronger than he thought.

Goku thought that Dabura was on Cell's level, but turns out, he is stronger than he thought, and he thought he was on Cell's level.

Therefore Dabura is stronger than Cell.

BloodRain, stop being an idiot.

So we're not mentioning that Gohan is 'not even close to the level' of his teen self?

Goku /thinks/ that Dabura can be compared to Cell.

Vegeta and Goku /confirm/ that Gohan can't even be compared to his teen self.

Dabura can't be stronger than Cell yet still be on a weakened Gohan's level.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
How did this even turn into who is stronger between Dabura and Cell? Isn't there a thread for that? :T

Because Broly was beating adult Gohan. Even though Gohan was able to get the slightest upperhand a few times.

If Broly can even be compared to an adult Gohan (who is weaker than someone around the strength of either Cell of Super Cell) then Broly = or < this Cell depending of which version Goku meant.

And if two people are physically on par, the guy who brings more to the table comes out on top. Cell's a lot smarter, has Instant Transmission and that from-a-cell regeneration.

Dabura, as confirmed by Vegeta, was toying with Gohan.

And you're a simpering moron if you believe that Gohan and Broly were on par with one another. Broly dominated Gohan and pals all at the same time.

Likely as thats the version Goku fought, but its SP Cell in this fight with Broly.

SP Cell was approaching SS2Gohan's level so he's stronger than Dabura who is above adult Gohan.

We really don't know Dabura's level since he never really cut loose. Goku and company aren't the best judges of PL's when someone can increase/decrease their output.

Goku had no idea Frieza could power up so highly above him when they were first fighting. And Vegeta thought he was a match for Perfect Cell

So we're not mentioning that Gohan is 'not even close to the level' of his teen self?

But Gohan 'not even close to the level' he started at still obliterated Super Perfect Cell

Goku /thinks/ that Dabura can be compared to Cell.

Which means Dabura was AT LEAST capable of putting out as much power as Cell.

Vegeta and Goku /confirm/ that Gohan can't even be compared to his teen self.

They also confirmed that Gohan's power was greatly decreased when he killed Cell

Dabura can't be stronger than Cell yet still be on a weakened Gohan's level.

He wasn't on Gohan's level. He was clearly above him since Gohan was exhausting himself and Dabura wasn't even really trying yet. Kinda like Vegeta vs Recoome.

Because Broly was beating adult Gohan. Even though Gohan was able to get the slightest upperhand a few times.

Those "upperhands" could be the result of Broly toying with Gohan

If Broly can even be compared to an adult Gohan (who is weaker than someone around the strength of either Cell of Super Cell) then Broly = or < this Cell depending of which version Goku meant.

Broly was clearly well above Gohan. He no solded eveything Gohan tried forcing Gohan to resort to trickery and getting assistance from his family. Had he not toyed with Gohan so much he clearly could have killed him

And if two people are physically on par, the guy who brings more to the table comes out on top. Cell's a lot smarter, has Instant Transmission and that from-a-cell regeneration.

Cell does have more in his bag of trick than Broly does which could give him a serious advantage.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Dabura, as confirmed by Vegeta, was toying with Gohan.

And you're a simpering moron if you believe that Gohan and Broly were on par with one another. Broly dominated Gohan and pals all at the same time.

Broly was winning, but not to DB stomp levels. Gohan got one or two hits in, being able to knock him back with each. But most importantly Gohan was able to overpower Broly's hold on him. A hold from behind with a knee pressing into his back, and from that position a damaged Gohan was still able to beat Broly's strength, break out and kick him away.

Broly is stronger than Gohan, but not so high that Gohan cant do anything.

Originally posted by juggerman
We really don't know Dabura's level since he never really cut loose. Goku and company aren't the best judges of PL's when someone can increase/decrease their output.

Goku had no idea Frieza could power up so highly above him when they were first fighting. And Vegeta thought he was a match for Perfect Cell

That would mean that what they said about Dabura and Cell also means nothing. If we can't take their words then all we can go by is Gohan acknowledging that he's weaker as the only fact here.

Though Dabura can't increase his power, iirc thats a trained thing that not all characters have learnt. But either way he didnt power up in the series, so that doesnt matter.

Originally posted by juggerman
But Gohan 'not even close to the level' he started at still obliterated Super Perfect Cell
Which means Dabura was AT LEAST capable of putting out as much power as Cell.
They also confirmed that Gohan's power was greatly decreased when he killed Cell
He wasn't on Gohan's level. He was clearly above him since Gohan was exhausting himself and Dabura wasn't even really trying yet. Kinda like Vegeta vs Recoome.
Those "upperhands" could be the result of Broly toying with Gohan
Broly was clearly well above Gohan. He no solded eveything Gohan tried forcing Gohan to resort to trickery and getting assistance from his family. Had he not toyed with Gohan so much he clearly could have killed him
Cell does have more in his bag of trick than Broly does which could give him a serious advantage.

This was to Neme and Aura so you didnt really need to respond.

No toying, says he just wants to kill him. And its was a physical on physical overcoming.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Likely as thats the version Goku fought, but its SP Cell in this fight with Broly.

SP Cell was approaching SS2Gohan's level so he's stronger than Dabura who is above adult Gohan.

so? Broly would have beaten SP cell also.

That would mean that what they said about Dabura and Cell also means nothing. If we can't take their words then all we can go by is Gohan acknowledging that he's weaker as the only fact here.

Not really. Goku and company can sense Ki levels being used they just can't determine how much power is still hidden. They would have a much better idea of Cell's limits since Cell has shown his full power. All they could really say about Dabura was the power he was currently at/using was on par with what Cell could do. Now the fact that Dabura was hardly trying means he was probably much stronger than he showed

Though Dabura can't increase his power, iirc thats a trained thing that not all characters have learnt. But either way he didnt power up in the series, so that doesnt matter.

There's no reason to think he couldn't since he was barely trying with Gohan meaning he had more power he wasn't using. And just about everyone they come across can manipulate their Ki to some degree and seeing as how Dabura had the same powers as everyone else does (flight, speed, ki blasts ect.) it would be foolish to just assume he can't just because he didn't show it in the 3 minutes he was seen

This was to Neme and Aura so you didnt really need to respond.

I know who it was to.

No toying, says he just wants to kill him. And its was a physical on physical overcoming.

Yes toying. That's what he does. Broly could have ended the fight multiple times but likes causing injury and pain.

He allowed all of the Z Fighters to be healed by Piccolo when he could have killed them. He allowed them free hits just to show how powerful he was. He basically KO'd everyone except Goku at the end and didn't finish them. He played around with Goten and Trunks instead of killing them right away (which he clearly could have seeing as how he didn't even tap into his true power). He sent a blast at Gohan that wasn't even powerful enough to kill Krillin. He was bearhugging a barely conscious Gohan instead of just blasting him away. He didn't just overwhelm Gohan in their Ki blast struggle (even tho when Gohan had a massive amount of help they were still losing meaning that had Broly truly desired to overpower Gohan alone he easily could have). And when Gohan had his bro and dad helping Broly was still just laughing away and wasn't really giving much effort.

That proves that not only is it completely in Broly's character to toy with his opponent instead of just killing them but that he had multiple chances to end it and chose not to because he is a sadistic A-Hole.

Also it shows he was well above Gohan

EDIT: I forgot to address Ghan breaking out of Broly's grasp. Sorry. That was a good strength showing for Gohan but as i said earlier Broly was merely toying with Gohan at the time. He was probably not using his full strength when Gohan pulled forward. Even still Broly no sold most of Gohan"s hits. The first one when Gohan hit Broly directly in the nose and Broly just smiled without so much as flinching is a good example

Originally posted by juggerman
We really don't know Dabura's level since he never really cut loose.

Originally posted by juggerman
Which means Dabura was AT LEAST capable of putting out as much power as Cell.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Though Dabura can't increase his power, iirc thats a trained thing that not all characters have learnt. But either way he didnt power up in the series, so that doesnt matter.

But yeah, Broly was toying. Even did so with ****ing Videl at one part.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Kay, finally just read the manga version.

Piccolo confirms that Gohan's ki is weaker than Cells at the time, though later Goku says Gohan was holding back. Vegeta does his attack, Gohan goes all out, and Cell gets killed.

So either Cell was weakened enough from Vegeta's attack so Gohan could beat him with half his power or Gohan really did have more than half because he was holding back. My guess is a little bit of both.

This is all irrelevant. Movies are non canon in DBZ. Every other movie cannot fit in the timeline. This is the only exception but that doesn't mean it's canon.

The movie 8 characters are NOT Cell Games level. It's blatantly obvious. Gohan is stronger than Goku but gets one shotted. Goku is deathly afraid of Gohan facing Broly whereas he threw Gohan into the fire against Cell.

Gohan and Goku are not MSSJ's and significantly weaker than when they faced off against Cell.

Cell rapes Broly.

Originally posted by Damborgson
so? Broly would have beaten SP cell also.

LOL Broly cannot come close to SSJ2 powers. He can't even one shot SSJ type characters like what SSJ2 Gohan did.

He one-shot SSJ Vegeta with the casualness of taking a dump.

Sorry it should be above SSJ type characters like against Cell Jrs. Gohan killed them in literally 5 seconds with one hand, bleeding everywhere from his body.

Broly couldn't even kill Piccolo. Granted Piccolo got raped but Broly is nowhere near SSJ2.

Originally posted by juggerman
Ok then if Earth hit the sun... Same deal.

These DBZ guys seem to have shitty heat durability. Broly and Cooler were killed by the sun. Broly was burned by lava. Goku panicked when Broly's blast set his clothes on fire. Goku dodged lava while fighting Frieza.

Let's not forget, Goku was right at the sun when he was heading to Namek and withstood the heat just fine. Broly died from the explosion AND the sun when he was rocketed in space. Lava didn't burn Broly. Frieza poured Lava on Goku and Goku was ok afterwards. The part you are talking about was for comic relief.

^I think the lava and sun parts are non-canon.

Um, Dabura did power up actually when he was meditating in that one room before he faced Gohan.

Wonder what is and isnt non-canon when the topic is a non-canon character...

Not really. Goku and company can sense Ki levels being used they just can't determine how much power is still hidden. They would have a much better idea of Cell's limits since Cell has shown his full power. All they could really say about Dabura was the power he was currently at/using was on par with what Cell could do. Now the fact that Dabura was hardly trying means he was probably much stronger than he showed

There's no reason to think he couldn't since he was barely trying with Gohan meaning he had more power he wasn't using. And just about everyone they come across can manipulate their Ki to some degree and seeing as how Dabura had the same powers as everyone else does (flight, speed, ki blasts ect.) it would be foolish to just assume he can't just because he didn't show it in the 3 minutes he was seen

Of everyone in Frieza's army, which includes the world population of Saiyans, no one could manipulate their levels of Ki like the Z fighters. The closet they had were changing into different forms. IIRC Frieza was shocked when those Nameks did just that. The only non Z fighter we see charging up their power is Cell, who is the exception because of his DNA. So from all of the known species/whatevers (Saiyans, Frieza's race, all the other species we've seen) only Humans and Namekians have shown this ability.

They knew Cell's, and now know Dabura's. Oh, and him hardly trying against Gohan it would go and show just how weak Gohan is as an adult.

Yes toying. That's what he does. Broly could have ended the fight multiple times but likes causing injury and pain.

EDIT: I forgot to address Ghan breaking out of Broly's grasp. Sorry. That was a good strength showing for Gohan but as i said earlier Broly was merely toying with Gohan at the time. He was probably not using his full strength when Gohan pulled forward. Even still Broly no sold most of Gohan"s hits. The first one when Gohan hit Broly directly in the nose and Broly just smiled without so much as flinching is a good example

Face punch was the only example, other times its knocks him back for a sec. But the back breaker scene is still in Gohan's favour. Gohan was in a physically awkward position, already ragged on and could break out even with Broly trying to keep him in that hold. Was surprised too iirc.

From all theses there probably isn't anything 100% that puts SP Cell or Broly on a different league by ki or physically to each other. Even in favour of Broly all we have is him beating, not stomping and once overpowered, a weaker-than-Cell-saga Gohan which cant really prove that he's notably > Cell. So I'm all for physically equal, besides Cell's extras.

Of everyone in Frieza's army, which includes the world population of Saiyans, no one could manipulate their levels of Ki like the Z fighters. The closet they had were changing into different forms. IIRC Frieza was shocked when those Nameks did just that. The only non Z fighter we see charging up their power is Cell, who is the exception because of his DNA. So from all of the known species/whatevers (Saiyans, Frieza's race, all the other species we've seen) only Humans and Namekians have shown this ability.

Zarbon could. Ginyu could. Frieza could. And a bunch of others could as well. They usually just operated at their full potential at all times which wasn't very high for most of them. Hell a bunch couldn't even Ki blast on their own. They needed tho lil ugly guns.

You can rally compare those guys to a being on Dabura's level

They knew Cell's, and now know Dabura's. Oh, and him hardly trying against Gohan it would go and show just how weak Gohan is as an adult.

Or how powerful Dabura was. Yes Gohan was weaker than his teen self but Cell was ridiculously weaker than Gohan's teen self. And if we are to believe Goku Dabura holding back was on Cell's level.

Face punch was the only example, other times its knocks him back for a sec. But the back breaker scene is still in Gohan's favour. Gohan was in a physically awkward position, already ragged on and could break out even with Broly trying to keep him in that hold. Was surprised too iirc.

A knock back doesn't show them being on the same level. Hell the Z Fighters beat the shit outta Nappa a few times AND hurt him. Tho them all together were still no match for him. Vegeta pounded on Recoome for awhile that it looked like Recoome was going to die. Gohan put a hurting on Frieza a few times ect

None of these fights were close to being even and they did much better against a stronger opponent than Gohan did against Broly.

From all theses there probably isn't anything 100% that puts SP Cell or Broly on a different league by ki or physically to each other. Even in favour of Broly all we have is him beating, not stomping and once overpowered, a weaker-than-Cell-saga Gohan which cant really prove that he's notably > Cell. So I'm all for physically equal, besides Cell's extras.

I know it's not 100% that's why i made this. It's a debate. If it were a clear "Broly is superior to Cell" than it would be spite and not fun

Originally posted by NemeBro
He one-shot SSJ Vegeta with the casualness of taking a dump.

That he did.

Perfect Cell was being damaged by attacks Brolly would just tank, like Goku's best Kamehameha.

Brolly wins, and easily.