Originally posted by BasedLOL Broly cannot come close to SSJ2 powers. He can't even one shot SSJ type characters like what SSJ2 Gohan did.
LOL sure he can. Thats because he was playing with them. He was having fun.
The Gohan he fought was so far above any regular ssj it's pretty obvious he could have killed them whenever he felt like it. Especially since when he let loose the energy building up in him he took out Goku, Trunk, and Gohan.
Originally posted by carver9
Let's not forget, Goku was right at the sun when he was heading to Namek and withstood the heat just fine. Broly died from the explosion AND the sun when he was rocketed in space. Lava didn't burn Broly. Frieza poured Lava on Goku and Goku was ok afterwards. The part you are talking about was for comic relief.
The lava did burn him. He had no marks on him besides the ones inflicted by Goku before entering the lava. After he was out, he was burned and damage.
Filler stuff for Goku. That didn't happen in the manga.
Herpderp. Waited to respond to this again for awhile because I thought it would still get more posts. Guess I was wrong.
Originally posted by cdtm
That he did.Perfect Cell was being damaged by attacks Brolly would just tank, like Goku's best Kamehameha.
Brolly wins, and easily.
And this might be just me, but the Kamehameha Goku used against Broly didn't look nearly as big or powerful as the one he used against Cell, as far as the anime. That, and the fact Goku had to be more strategic to be even be able to hit Cell with that.
Zarbon could. Ginyu could. Frieza could. And a bunch of others could as well. They usually just operated at their full potential at all times which wasn't very high for most of them. Hell a bunch couldn't even Ki blast on their own. They needed tho lil ugly guns.You can rally compare those guys to a being on Dabura's level
Form change =/= Powering up their ki, and Ginyu couldn't. Its why they were all shocked at the Earthlings and Namekians being able to do so, majority of them not even knowing you could do such a thing.
Or how powerful Dabura was. Yes Gohan was weaker than his teen self but Cell was ridiculously weaker than Gohan's teen self. And if we are to believe Goku Dabura holding back was on Cell's level.
A knock back doesn't show them being on the same level. Hell the Z Fighters beat the shit outta Nappa a few times AND hurt him. Tho them all together were still no match for him. Vegeta pounded on Recoome for awhile that it looked like Recoome was going to die. Gohan put a hurting on Frieza a few times ectNone of these fights were close to being even and they did much better against a stronger opponent than Gohan did against Broly.
I know it's not 100% that's why i made this. It's a debate. If it were a clear "Broly is superior to Cell" than it would be spite and not fun
Originally posted by BloodRain
Form change =/= Powering up their ki, and Ginyu couldn't. Its why they were all shocked at the Earthlings and Namekians being able to do so, majority of them not even knowing you could do such a thing.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Just saying that theres nothing to prove one over the other here due to lacking some info. But even as equals, Cell should still be above for the brains, skill and regen.
Not true. Frieza was in his final form yet could actively choose how much power he put out. Thats the same kind of control the others show except Frieza didnt go beyond his PL while Goku and company can. And before fighting the Z Fighters Nappa did in fact power up. That shows that he was capabile oof hiding some of his power to some extent tho its not really known how much or why everybody was so surprised when the Earthlings did it.
Unless we know he can power up, theres no reason to think that he could.
Since he was clearly holding back we can assume he could power up to some degree
On the level, not same level. As in it wasnt like Gohan vs Cell Jrs level of stomp, as Gohan here was able to get some, even if little, damage off. Difference is that those underdogs never physically bested the person they were attacking. This fight wasnt close, but the level difference (at least by strength) is much closer than the above
So are you saying that Gohan hitting Broly and making him move a few inches is more impressive than Piccolo punching Nappa and sending him flying? Or Goku sending Frieza thru mountains with a kick? Or Vegeta Punching Recoome so hard Recoome doubled over in pain?
Broly never once showed that Gohan was hurting him at all. Gohan did pull Broly's arms forward but Broly was toying with him at the time. That's not much different than Goku stopping Frieza from stranggling him with his tail while Frieza was at a very low power and toying with Goku.
It's pretty clear that Broly was superior to Gohan at every turn so it's reasonable to assume had Broly been serious Gohan would have be killed very easily very early
Originally posted by juggerman
Not true. Frieza was in his final form yet could actively choose how much power he put out. Thats the same kind of control the others show except Frieza didnt go beyond his PL while Goku and company can. And before fighting the Z Fighters Nappa did in fact power up. That shows that he was capabile oof hiding some of his power to some extent tho its not really known how much or why everybody was so surprised when the Earthlings did it.
Since he was clearly holding back we can assume he could power up to some degree
So are you saying that Gohan hitting Broly and making him move a few inches is more impressive than Piccolo punching Nappa and sending him flying? Or Goku sending Frieza thru mountains with a kick? Or Vegeta Punching Recoome so hard Recoome doubled over in pain?Broly never once showed that Gohan was hurting him at all. Gohan did pull Broly's arms forward but Broly was toying with him at the time. That's not much different than Goku stopping Frieza from stranggling him with his tail while Frieza was at a very low power and toying with Goku.
It's pretty clear that Broly was superior to Gohan at every turn so it's reasonable to assume had Broly been serious Gohan would have be killed very easily very early
Mmno, just that through the stompfight we have Gohan showing that he is able to, while weakened and in a poor position to resist, break out of Broly's hold on him. For that moment Gohan physically bested him, where other stompfights only had the underdog get in a lucky hit/blast. And I cant see how whether or not he was toying has anything to do with him not being able to pull harder. Having your hold broke and getting kicked in the face doesnt seem like a thing that would happen to a guy toyingly in control.
Im on the fence with that especially with the ending, regardless of the 'distraction'. Id admit to him toying, but not to him not using his full power.
His hold was only broken after the kick to the face, helping push him away, and beyond that, Broly's hands weren't even wrapped fully around Gohan's wrists. Notice before that that Gohan's punch doesn't so much as make Broly pause, and Broly overpowers him with one arm. Oh, and the kick did nothing to Broly, as we see.
Seriously BloodRain, stop basing your argument on this one instance that you don't even have the context right on.
Oh, and also notice that after that brief exchange, Gohan is so beaten and tired he lays down and passes out, powering down. .
Frieza was going to his full power after suppressing it, while the fighters charge themselves from a lowered state, to a normal one than to one well above their norm.
Frieza charges himself from a lower state as well. And it is shown that thet can go beyond their normal state by Cooler transforming. My point is that he has control enough to use as power as he sees fit just like the Z fighters and can power up and down.
And the Saiyans transform but can't hold their transformed state forever or it will deplete their power. Frieza stated that he couldn't control his power so he powers down. Basically the same thing
Iirc Nappa was only charging for certain attacks, not actually powering up his ki.
No Nappa charges up right in the beginning and the ground trembles. The Z Fighters are scared shitless at the power Nappa is using just to power up
Vegeta is highly shocked when he sees them power up, so if others can do so its nowhere in the same league as the control theZ fighters have. Otherwise Vegeta, Frieza and the FatPink/Effeminate henchmen wouldnt have been surprised by this at all.
I agree it's not in the same league but they have been shown to do it so the total shock is very inconsistant with what people do regularly
Mmno, just that through the stompfight we have Gohan showing that he is able to, while weakened and in a poor position to resist, break out of Broly's hold on him. For that moment Gohan physically bested him, where other stompfights only had the underdog get in a lucky hit/blast. And I cant see how whether or not he was toying has anything to do with him not being able to pull harder. Having your hold broke and getting kicked in the face doesnt seem like a thing that would happen to a guy toyingly in control
If he was toying that means he wasn't using his full strength. Gohan was able to pull away from a not trying very hard Broly. Before Broly started pulling harder Gohan kicked him breaking the hold. Not seeing how Gohan matches Broly's strength at all here
Im on the fence with that especially with the ending, regardless of the 'distraction'. Id admit to him toying, but not to him not using his full power.
Just look at what Broly was doing against Gohan.
He no sold a full power punch right to the face and smiled
He completely overwhelmed Gohan while toying with him to the point that Gohan passed out while Broly came back still giggling
He bearhugged Gohan and Gohan was able to do nothing about it except scream out in pain until Videl distracted Broly
He completely overpowered Gohan's Kamehameha while laughing
He completely overpowered Gohan's and Goten's combined Kamehameha while laughing
He completely overpowered Gohan's, Goten's and Goku's combined Kamehameha while laughing
Haven't seen that movie in forever, but when exactly did Broly overpower all three of them? I thought their attack was what sent him to the sun. And it's not like we saw that Goku at the end go all out against Broly, as in SSJ3. 313
We're talking about the same Gohan that also did poorly against Dabura, are we not? And he wasn't even a SSJ2 during Broly's 1st movie, so that doesn't say much.
On a side note, where the hell were Vegeta and Piccolo during Broly's 2nd movie?
Haven't seen that movie in forever, but when exactly did Broly overpower all three of them? I thought their attack was what sent him to the sun.
Gohan fired a Kamehameha at Broly and he fired one of his weird green balls that expand on contact in return. Gohan was being overwhelmed and Goten joined the fray adding his Kamehameha to Gohan's. They were still being beaten when Goten wished for Goku to appear and he also added his Kamehameha. The entire time Broly was laughing and anytime they gained momentum he just increased his output pushing them back again.
It wasn't until Trunks fired a blast that "lingered" for some reason in between Broly and his green ball causing Broly to no longer be able to fire any more energy into his attack to increase it did they finally push hard enough to overwhelm Broly. It's pretty clear that had Trunks not "blocked" Broly he would have killed them all
We're talking about the same Gohan that also did poorly against Dabura, are we not?
Yes
And he wasn't even a SSJ2 during Broly's 1st movie, so that doesn't say much.
He also got completely stomped by Broly very easily. Atleast twice. None of the SSJ could harm Broly in the slightest and it took some major PIS for Goku to "reopen" a wound that healed about 30 years ago
On a side note, where the hell where Vegeta and Piccolo during Broly's 2nd movie?
It was stupid for them to leave out Piccolo like that seeing as how he could feel Broly's power from New Vegeta while he was on Earth. Maybe he and Vegeta remembered that ass whoopin Broly layed on them last time and wanted no part of it again 😛
Vegeta at this point might have been too powerful for Broly to be a serious threat seeing as how he was vastly stronger than SSJ2 Teen Gohan at this point. Or was that only due to his new Majin powers?
Originally posted by juggerman
Frieza charges himself from a lower state as well. And it is shown that thet can go beyond their normal state by Cooler transforming. My point is that he has control enough to use as power as he sees fit just like the Z fighters and can power up and down.And the Saiyans transform but can't hold their transformed state forever or it will deplete their power. Frieza stated that he couldn't control his power so he powers down. Basically the same thing
And that would still only be two characters (Notably only one seeing as Ginyu barely increased) that can do so from all of the characters and species in DB, besides the ones we know who have trained to do so. Its stated to be a rare thing, so if Dabura hasn't shown it there's no reason to assume he can.
Originally posted by juggerman
No Nappa charges up right in the beginning and the ground trembles. The Z Fighters are scared shitless at the power Nappa is using just to power up
Originally posted by juggerman
I agree it's not in the same league but they have been shown to do it so the total shock is very inconsistant with what people do regularly
Originally posted by juggerman
If he was toying that means he wasn't using his full strength. Gohan was able to pull away from a not trying very hard Broly. Before Broly started pulling harder Gohan kicked him breaking the hold. Not seeing how Gohan matches Broly's strength at all here
Originally posted by juggerman
Just look at what Broly was doing against Gohan.He no sold a full power punch right to the face and smiled
He completely overwhelmed Gohan while toying with him to the point that Gohan passed out while Broly came back still giggling
He bearhugged Gohan and Gohan was able to do nothing about it except scream out in pain until Videl distracted Broly
He completely overpowered Gohan's Kamehameha while laughing
He completely overpowered Gohan's and Goten's combined Kamehameha while laughing
He completely overpowered Gohan's, Goten's and Goku's combined Kamehameha while laughing
Like I said, Broly /can/ stomp Gohan easily. But we can't deny that the moment he was overpowered and the fact that he was beaten by Goku and a weakened Gohan (not including Goten and a passing out Trunks as their strength isnt worth mentioning, at all) says that he's not some massive untouchable league above them.
Anyhow. If Dabura is as strong as Cell, then Broly is on Cell's level if slightly above. If Dabura's weaker or stronger than Cell, than so too is Broly.
Nothing yet shows that Dabura can become stronger than Cell, until then Cell and Broly are in the same ballpark.
Originally posted by juggerman
Gohan fired a Kamehameha at Broly and he fired one of his weird green balls that expand on contact in return. Gohan was being overwhelmed and Goten joined the fray adding his Kamehameha to Gohan's. They were still being beaten when Goten wished for Goku to appear and he also added his Kamehameha. The entire time Broly was laughing and anytime they gained momentum he just increased his output pushing them back again.It wasn't until Trunks fired a blast that "lingered" for some reason in between Broly and his green ball causing Broly to no longer be able to fire any more energy into his attack to increase it did they finally push hard enough to overwhelm Broly. It's pretty clear that had Trunks not "blocked" Broly he would have killed them all
Then again, we didn't see Goku go all out there as I said before, who I'm pretty sure by that time was able to go SSJ3, but that might've just been one of those things written out of the movie like Vegeta and Piccolo.
Originally posted by juggerman
Yes
Originally posted by juggerman
It was stupid for them to leave out Piccolo like that seeing as how he could feel Broly's power from New Vegeta while he was on Earth. Maybe he and Vegeta remembered that ass whoopin Broly layed on them last time and wanted no part of it again 😛Vegeta at this point might have been too powerful for Broly to be a serious threat seeing as how he was vastly stronger than SSJ2 Teen Gohan at this point. Or was that only due to his new Majin powers?
It's kinda hard to tell whether Vegeta had already surpassed Gohan before becoming Majin, but with his attitude toward Gohan's power decrease the whole time, especially during the Dabura fight when Vegeta was mumbling that he could beat Dabura or do better against him than Gohan could, I'm gonna guess that he did, even though we never saw Vegeta with a SSJ2-like form until he was Majin, or when he went SSJ2 against Kid Buu if you don't count the Majin power-up.
Other than that, I agree. It was a tease too though when they made us think it was Piccolo who rescued Gohan from falling in the lava or whatever with Broly at first when it was just Krillen wearing part of his costume.
Oh, I remember that now. Yeah, a severely injured 8-year old Trunks being able to make that much a difference against Broly there was PIS I'd say, perhaps more-so than what led to Broly's defeat in the first movie.
Oh no. The first movie is the king of PIS. How in Zues' butthole (The Rock) was Goku able to re open a healed wound 30 years old? After getting WTFcurbstomped for what seemed like hours? And how did Vegeta's energy (the guy who was clearly the weakest of them all since he was one shotted while everyone put up a fight) put Goku over the top when he wasn't even close to Broly with everyone else's? Just damn dumb
Then again, we didn't see Goku go all out there as I said before, who I'm pretty sure by that time was able to go SSJ3, but that might've just been one of those things written out of the movie like Vegeta and Piccolo.
I know he didn't go all out but his SSJ was was probably superior to Gohan's SSJ2 at that time since Gohan was weak. Goku seemed to think Dabura was below him and him at SSJ2 was well above anything Dabura showed. Either way Broly was easily overpowering them all
That was a rhetorical question.
Yeah i know! 😕
Well, Vegeta overcame his fear of Broly when he finally decided to try attacking him (even though it was a vain attempt), so I'd say it would be out of character for him to choose not to be involved against Broly again, especially when his son was nearly dying out there against him. 😛
He overcame his fear of Broly's status. After he attcked Broly he learned to fear Broly's actual might. Trunks be damned! Every Saiyan for himself! 😛
It's kinda hard to tell whether Vegeta had already surpassed Gohan before becoming Majin, but with his attitude toward Gohan's power decrease the whole time, especially during the Dabura fight when Vegeta was mumbling that he could beat Dabura or do better against him than Gohan could, I'm gonna guess that he did, even though we never saw Vegeta with a SSJ2-like form until he was Majin, or when he went SSJ2 against Kid Buu if you don't count the Majin power-up.
It seems like he was stronger than Gohan was at the moment due to his frustration. But he probably wasn't at SSJ2 Teen Gohan level since he commented on how he was surprised that he was more powerful than "when Gohan defeated Cell" or some mess. When he fought Kid Buu id say he was about Super Cell's level
Other than that, I agree. It was a tease too though when they made us think it was Piccolo who rescued Gohan from falling in the lava or whatever with Broly at first when it was just Krillen wearing part of his costume.
Yeah that part pissed me off. I always get mad when they just use Piccolo as a rescuer only to become fodder. He is one of my favs and he's always getting treated like shit. And then i really got pissed when it wasn't even him!