Originally posted by Q99
Yea, in his own era alone, he's like... maybe 7th? Sidious, Yoda, Mace, Dooku, Anakin, Obi-wan.
I dunno tbh. Maybe.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Throw Barriss on the list or suffer. uhuh
When/if they confirm it's her, then we'll see.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well yeah but a lot of those PT top-tiers are pretty close in Saber Prowess.And I honestly wouldn't put Obi-Wan too far ahead of Maul looking at their fights.
I would, tbh. I'm still amazed how much lip service Maul is getting, though I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, given that he's like the Boba Fett of the PT.
Originally posted by -Pr-When/if they confirm it's her, then we'll see.
Even if it's her, she didn't anything overly impressive. If Ventress knew she was in a fight, and she solidly beat her in Sabers, then that would have been somewhat impressive.
Originally posted by -Pr-
I would, tbh. I'm still amazed how much lip service Maul is getting,
Just stomping Opress puts him up there Imo. So far Opress's list of wins include Adi-Gallia, Plo Koon and Ventress. So utterly stomping him is no small feat.
And I think he held his own against Sidious (in Sabers). That in it self puts him in an elite few.
Plus even as of TPM he was beating the crap out of some of the best Jedi Swordsmen- Qui-Gon and Anoon Bondara.
Originally posted by -Pr-
though I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, given that he's like the Boba Fett of the PT.
👆
Well yeah, it wasn't like it was a proper fight; just Ventress getting caught out to help the plot along.
I don't like it, tbh. The guy is on some planet for what, a decade? And somehow he's able to still keep up with people like Kenobi that have been refining their skills in that time? It makes little sense to me.
Who's Anoon Bondara?
Originally posted by -Pr-Who's Anoon Bondara?
From the novel Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter. He's described as being the a swordsman whose skills with a Saber are second to none.
Not that he would take Yoda or anything. Just in terms of his sword fighting skills he was supposedly unmatched. People like Qui-Gon would always spar him to improve their own sword fighting abilities.
And Maul was said to be a superior fighter to Anoon in their fight.
That novel and other Maul novels constantly praise Maul's sword fighting and close combat skills. Not surprising seen as he was introduced in TPM just as this bad ass Saber fighting guy.
But I get your point about him being out of action for 10+ years.
I also thought it was kind of unrealistic how he just got his legs replaced again 2 episodes before he fights the Emperor.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Just stomping Opress puts him up there Imo. So far Opress's list of wins include Adi-Gallia, Plo Koon and Ventress. So utterly stomping him is no small feat.
It's quite impressive and puts him good in his era, but of all-time, there's quite a few more uber people more impressive than Maul.
-Pr-
I don't like it, tbh. The guy is on some planet for what, a decade? And somehow he's able to still keep up with people like Kenobi that have been refining their skills in that time? It makes little sense to me.
Mostly due to his natural talent and power, but once people start adjusting to that, he starts getting his butt kicked.
Who's Anoon Bondara?
Probably the Jedi battlemaster of the time of Phantom Menace, and a noted skilled warrior.
But, we aren't talking Mace Windu or Yoda level here, mind you. Council member level, certainly skilled, but not uber tier, and during peace time.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
From the novel Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter. He's described as being the a swordsman whose skills with a Saber are second to none.Not that he would take Yoda or anything. Just in terms of his sword fighting skills he was supposedly unmatched. People like Qui-Gon would always spar him to improve their own sword fighting abilities.
And Maul was said to be a superior fighter to Anoon in their fight.
That novel and other Maul novels constantly praise Maul's sword fighting and close combat skills. Not surprising seen as he was introduced in TPM just as this bad ass Saber fighting guy.
But I get your point about him being out of action for 10+ years.
I also thought it was kind of unrealistic how he just got his legs replaced again 2 episodes before he fights the Emperor.
He has nothing below the waist... I'd be pissed too.
Originally posted by Q99
It's quite impressive and puts him good in his era, but of all-time, there's quite a few more uber people more impressive than Maul.Mostly due to his natural talent and power, but once people start adjusting to that, he starts getting his butt kicked.
Probably the Jedi battlemaster of the time of Phantom Menace, and a noted skilled warrior.
But, we aren't talking Mace Windu or Yoda level here, mind you. Council member level, certainly skilled, but not uber tier, and during peace time.
The only thing i would say is, what about Ventress/Obi-Wan's natural talent and power? 😛
But yeah, I know it's Maul, etc.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think your talking about Opress. But you quoted Pr who was talking about Maul being out of commission for 10 years.
Oops, yea.
Maul keeping up isn't too explained, but I'd say it's part starting much higher than Obi-wan, and part focusing his anger and still going over fights in his head over and over, most likely.
My own martial arts instructor mentioned that one of the key figures in Hsing-Yi killed a guy in a duel, was sent to prison for years with the dude's buddies waiting for him to get out, and while in the prison managed to develop the style further (despite not being in a place where he could properly train), keep in shape, and when he got out, killed the buddy.
Then he got sent back to prison for killing the other guy. Kinda dumb, really ^^
So anyway, someone who's already an expert training on their own and managing to keep their level and think up some new moves isn't without real life precedence.
Maul was insane, though. And a big, metal spider. I mean, if they had found him living and surviving on the planet as something resembling himself, that would have been fine, but they went out of their way to show how completely mentally ruined he'd become. All he had left was his hate, and while that makes him powerful, I don't consider it to be the same thing as being skilled.
Though I can't really complain too much after the kicking Obi-Wan gave both of them in that episode. Such a good feat.
I do think a lot of it was just he started out pretty high. Obi-wan in that time frame grew from well below him, to passed him.
Plus now his hatred is so much more intense than it was, he can probably draw on the dark side better. Certainly once his mind was restored he'd be more focused on improvement than ever before.
Originally posted by -Pr-
I honestly don't think the gap between them at the start was that extreme, tbh, but that's just me.
From when they first fought back in PM? Maul kicked him in the face like, three times, and he was just serving as support for Qui-gon to boot.
He also switched lightsaber styles almost entirely, from an offensive style to a defensive one that he became famous for. Obi-wan remade himself as fighter over the intervening years, and grew from a wet behind the ears just-barely-a-knight to a solid master.
His experience during the CW caused him to grow more, but there's quite a big gap between PM Obi-wan and even start of Clones Wars Obi-wan.
I'm not saying Maul wasn't superior. He obviously was. He was the equivalent of a fully trained Jedi Knight with more experience than Obi-Wan.
I honestly don't think he switched his style due to Maul as much as it was him feeling like he had to be the teacher, and how Jedi tend to pick a style as they grow.
Maul was superior at the time, obviously. I just don't think it was to the extent that Kenobi was a noob against him. He did hold his own for a time in pure saber combat, and it was Maul's experience with the force that got Obi off of him.
Originally posted by -Pr-
I'm not saying Maul wasn't superior. He obviously was. He was the equivalent of a fully trained Jedi Knight with more experience than Obi-Wan.I honestly don't think he switched his style due to Maul as much as it was him feeling like he had to be the teacher, and how Jedi tend to pick a style as they grow.
Maul was superior at the time, obviously. I just don't think it was to the extent that Kenobi was a noob against him. He did hold his own for a time in pure saber combat, and it was Maul's experience with the force that got Obi off of him.
Have to disagree here. TPM Novel makes it clear that at the time Qui-Gon>Obi-Wan. Although Qui-Gon was confident that Obi-Wan would surpass him one day.
The novel also notes that Maul was a match for the 2 of them combined.
You have to remember Maul and Obi-Wan's final fight in TPM was quite circumstantial. Obi-Wan had been out of the fight for a while so would be completely revitalized. And his anger at seeing Qui-Gon die gave him a huge but temporary boost which according to the Official Site caught Maul by surprise.
Also Maul's rigorous training at the hands of Sidious was beyond that received by any Knight.
But yes Maul overpowered Obi-Wan with the Force in that final fight. And it seems he can still do that to CW Obi-Wan too.
Originally posted by -Pr-I honestly don't think he switched his style due to Maul as much as it was him feeling like he had to be the teacher, and how Jedi tend to pick a style as they grow.
His original style was the same as Qui-Gon's, mind. And the Maul fight definitely shaped his combat thinking- note how in the final Anakin fight, Anakin was basically in his place and he in Maul's, only he defended where Maul failed.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Have to disagree here. TPM Novel makes it clear that at the time Qui-Gon>Obi-Wan. Although Qui-Gon was confident that Obi-Wan would surpass him one day.The novel also notes that Maul was a match for the 2 of them combined.
You have to remember Maul and Obi-Wan's final fight in TPM was quite circumstantial. Obi-Wan had been out of the fight for a while so would be completely revitalized. And his anger at seeing Qui-Gon die gave him a huge but temporary boost which according to the Official Site caught Maul by surprise.
Also Maul's rigorous training at the hands of Sidious was beyond that received by any Knight.
But yes Maul overpowered Obi-Wan with the Force in that final fight. And it seems he can still do that to CW Obi-Wan too.
Where did I say that Obi-Wan was > Qui Gon? I don't believe that at all.
I haven't read the novel, so I can't agree or disagree.
Originally posted by Q99
His original style was the same as Qui-Gon's, mind. And the Maul fight definitely shaped his combat thinking- note how in the final Anakin fight, Anakin was basically in his place and he in Maul's, only he defended where Maul failed.
I honestly don't agree, but that's more personal preference. I can see why you think that, so not going to argue.
One thing I will say, though, is that the two vs one fight is very different than a one v one. When Kenobi and Jinn were together fighting Maul, they were working as a team. Flanking, even feinting at one point. When Obi-Wan was on his own, his outrage, or anger if you want to call it that, fueled his desire to win, and he fought a lot more aggresively than he had when they teamed up.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Where did I say that Obi-Wan was > Qui Gon? I don't believe that at all.
Oh I thought you were saying that Obi-Wan was almost a match for Maul. Obviously we know Qui-Gon was no match for Maul so I just assumed you meant that Obi-Wan may have been greater than Qui-Gon.
Originally posted by -Pr-
I honestly don't agree, but that's more personal preference. I can see why you think that, so not going to argue.One thing I will say, though, is that the two vs one fight is very different than a one v one. When Kenobi and Jinn were together fighting Maul, they were working as a team. Flanking, even feinting at one point. When Obi-Wan was on his own, his outrage, or anger if you want to call it that, fueled his desire to win, and he fought a lot more aggresively than he had when they teamed up.
Yeah that's true. His rage and aggression clearly enhanced his performance. But he won't be doing that under normal circumstances.
The older Obi-Wan actually started losing when CW Maul tried to get him angry in their first CW fight.
The rage thing doesn't suit his now much more advanced(and more Jedi-Like) style of combat.