Originally posted by Philosophía
Sure. I, for one, cannot wait to make King Thor inadmissible for mainstream Thor due to being a changed timeline, and treat him as a "What If?" Universe, with "What If?" Desak, "What If?" Hulk, etc.The Flashpoint Universe is the DC Universe, but with random events modifications. It's no an alternate timeline in the way "What Ifs" are. Unless we're arguing the Flash went back in time and changed the Wizard's Shazam's gifts, they'd be the same, since it's the same Universe.
I don't know how we got here from my first post, though, since I was mostly displaying writer intention. But...anyway.
I always thought it was inadmissible in the same way we don't have possible future Gladiator as canon for Glads etc.
I mean, would Flashpoint Superman = Superman? The one who was weakened in the bunker for years?
No. Because the history is changed.
Originally posted by XLR87T3
He was flying in that scan and he was still way slower than Wonder Woman running
You didn't read the text, did you,lol.
Edit: also, check Superman out. Also flying. The text says he's unmatched when flying.
But he's 4th placed in the art. Wait, is he fastest, or 4th fastest? Lol.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85But it's not a possible future.
I always thought it was inadmissible in the same way we don't have possible future Gladiator as canon for Glads etc.I mean, would Flashpoint Superman = Superman? The one who was weakened in the bunker for years?
No. Because the history is changed.
Flashpoint Superman is literally mainstream Superman when the mainstream Superman was put in a bunker for most of his life under red sun by changing details in the mainstream Universe.
The Universe didn't branch-out into an alternate Superman. He IS the Superman.
You've read Flash. Imagine that every time Flash goes back in the past, we treat it as a separate Universe. EVERY. TIME. Because, technically, the timeline is now changed.
Do we?
But history was.
Shazam in a fight with WW would fight differently to Thunder in a fight, for example - we even saw that in the comic.
'Last time I was only trying to talk to you...not this time!'
Histories etc are all different. Which affects their mindsets, etc, which affects their performances.
Edit: stop editing!
Edit edit: Stop!! Lol. This makes the thread flow different everytime you go back and change your post...ohh...meta.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Oh, I agree with that completely, if that's your objection.
But history was.Shazam in a fight with WW would fight differently to Thunder in a fight, for example - we even saw that in the comic.
'Last time I was only trying to talk to you...not this time!'
Histories etc are all different. Which affects their mindsets, etc, which affects their performances.
Of course.
But the powerset itself is not different. Experience? Tactics? Yes.
edit: just for.
edit2: just to think I added something else, and for you to scan it.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Oh, I agree with that completely, if that's your objection.Of course.
But the powerset itself is not different. Experience? Tactics? Yes.
edit: just for.
edit2: just to think I added something else, and for you to scan it.
PowerSET may not change, but powerLEVELS would - which is my objection, and hence, the inadmissibility.
As Rage said, it's not as if we don't have years and years of the two to compare.
Maybe Captain Thunder likes to work out every Sunday. Maybe he likes to just sit at home eating pizza and getting all fat and soft. Maybe....you see what I mean?
Still has the same powerset. Different histories, different mindset, different powerlevels.
Which is what I use with Gladiator. Maybe future Glads works out at the local Crossfit gym every day, boosting his strength. Maybe he trains with the finest MAs to hone his skills. Still has the exact same powerset - strength, flight, eyebeams, whatever. But not the same in a forum match.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85I don't read rage's posts.
PowerSET may not change, but powerLEVELS would - which is my objection, and hence, the inadmissibility.As Rage said, it's not as if we don't have years and years of the two to compare.
I think you're conflating powerlevel with formidability.
Powerset IS the powerlevel. Formidability is how you use that powerset.
Shazam/Captain Thunder have the same powerlevel. But, given more showings/experience, you can't say they'd do the same in a fight.
edit: now you're editing, lol! But this is semantics...
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Not me. My point is that we are going down the Hulk is Hulk route. If a thread says a certain character, it doesn't mean we can just throw others in.
Hulk is by nature a dynamic character with different power levels depending upon how angry he is. So no.
So.....the senses are the same?
Reason? Senses of different people are different. It's also a skill to pick up different senses.
Note how I said 'no-name Lantern', NOT Hal? 🙂
Meaning what? GLs by their nature are not equal because every person has different level of willpower.
Where the only difference was the time difference, up until then.
No, it wasn't. Elseworlds are by default different universes and Superman in red son wasn't even kryptonian but a human from future.
My point remains the same. Captain Thunder isn't Captain Marvel (Shazam) as named in OP.
Nobody said he was. You still haven't shown anything that shows he was by default less powerful than Captain Marvel.
He DEFINITELY isn't the REGULAR version. If you want to argue in round 2, that he's the most powerful version, go ahead. [/B]
Never said he was. He isn't less powerful just because you threw false equivalencies.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I always thought it was inadmissible in the same way we don't have possible future Gladiator as canon for Glads etc.I mean, would Flashpoint Superman = Superman? The one who was weakened in the bunker for years?
No. Because the history is changed.
Flashpoint Wonder Woman was almost as fast as Wally and Flashpoint Superman was as fast as Wally by statements. So much for weaker alternate characters, eh?
Originally posted by abhilegend
Nobody said he was. You still haven't shown anything that shows he was by default less powerful than Captain Marvel.Never said he was. He isn't less powerful just because you threw false equivalencies.
Originally posted by abhilegend
He is not exactly Captain Marvel
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, they are equal.
Which is it?
And please stop putting words in my mouth. Please quote me where I said he was weaker? NOW who's using false equivalencies and red herrings?
Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman was specifically stated to be more powerful than Flashpoint Superman due to the same reason.Flashpoint Wonder Woman was almost as fast as Wally and Flashpoint Superman was as fast as Wally by statements. So much for weaker alternate characters, eh?
....did I ever say anything about weaker? I said it was inadmissible, lol. More powerful, less powerful, I don't care - I am saying it is not valid.
Thread asked for the regular Cap Marvel. You want to go down a tangent line of arguing that Captain Thunder is equal/less/more powerful than regular Cap, go ahead.
I am saying that its not the same. As you yourself said, it's not exactly Cap MArvel, is it?
Apart from when you want to throw dialogue about 'reminders', lol. Like the JLA 'remind' Hawkeye about Squadron Supreme lite...
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Which is it?And please stop putting words in my mouth. Please quote me where I said he was weaker? NOW who's using false equivalencies and red herrings?
Both are true, he is not exactly Captain Marvel but he is equal to him in power.
....did I ever say anything about weaker? I said it was inadmissible, lol. More powerful, less powerful, I don't care - I am saying it is not valid.
Why so? He had the power of Shazam just like Billy did.
Thread asked for the regular Cap Marvel. You want to go down a tangent line of arguing that Captain Thunder is equal/less/more powerful than regular Cap, go ahead.
I am saying that its not the same. As you yourself said, it's not exactly Cap MArvel, is it?
Apart from when you want to throw dialogue about 'reminders', lol. Like the JLA 'remind' Hawkeye about Squadron Supreme lite...
Hawkeye making a snarky comment about total strangers is now equal to Superman knowing Captain Thunder as a counterpart to a fellow hero he knew for years?
Don't be a carver.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Both are true, he is not exactly Captain Marvel but he is equal to him in power.Why so? He had the power of Shazam just like Billy did.
Hawkeye making a snarky comment about total strangers is now equal to Superman knowing Captain Thunder as a counterpart to a fellow hero he knew for years?
Don't be a carver.
You do know these characters don't exist, right?
So when writers write dialogue like that, they're not actually drawing upon Superman's actual memories and experiences, yeah? Lol.
Besides, if you want to go down that route, of COURSE he would remind Superman of Billy. He looks almost the same, down to that sash and cape thing. Same colour scheme and everything. But, a tangent.
Jane has the power of Thor, just like Thor did. You can't cross their feats/defeats.
Just in case you misread me AGAIN - I am NOT saying Jane is weaker than Odinson, lol.
GLs have different levels of willpower and imagination. Which affects their performances as GLs, despite having the same powerset and power source.
That's my point with Shazam/Thunder. Thunder is of a different mindset to Billy. Maybe he rushes in more because he's more 'strike first ask questions later'. Maybe he's more arrogant. Whatever. Point is still he's of a different character.
Originally posted by carver9I legitimately lol'd.
I remember when this guy was bashed because people mentioned him taking out alternate characters. Let me find one of his threads. I'm sure I can find some of the people in here commenting on King Hype showing.
You don't even understand this discussion.