Wonder Woman vs Captain Marvel (Shazam)

Originally posted by -Pr-
I've read the last two pages. I don't think I understand what it is you want a ruling on. The Flashpoint universe? Thunder himself? What exactly?

In short:

Originally posted by abhilegend

The Flashpoint Universe is the mainstream DC Universe with some details changed. It's not an alternate Universe, it's not a parallel Universe, nothing like that.

The only difference between that, and any other Flash comic where he goes back in the past, is that the changes were many, and as such a lot of history was changed.

To that effect, somebody like Captain Thunder [Captain Marvel's name in that altered mainstream], who has the same power set as the normal Captain Marvel, would be just as strong, fast etc. since the Wizard bestowed to him the exact same powers, from the exact same beings. The difference is that he would have different life experience and and formed from multiple kids each holding 1 of the SHAZAM acronyms, so the transfer is not 1-on-1. But if the transformed Captain Thunder arm-wrestles Wonder Woman to a draw, his feat is transferred to the mainstream one, since he has been given the powers from the same gods as the mainstream Universe.

Or, to make it even simple - Aquaman. That Aquaman is, in terms of physical strength, the exact same person as non-Flashpoint Aquaman. It's just that his history was changed due to time-travel, so he's had different life experiences, is more hardcore, etc. But if he were to arm-wrestle non-flashpoint Arthur, it would be a draw, since they're the same guy, but with a different life experience.

etc.

WTF

Originally posted by carver9
WTF

Go have a soda.

Using the Aquaman example, maybe the Flash point one is more of a soldier, less of a king, so spends his days arm wrestling in the barracks and honing his technique, whatever.

So we can't even use that as an indicator.

😂

In short, Pr. Abilities are the same, but experience is different

So while Captain Thunder would be just as physically able, he'd fight differently.

Originally posted by carver9
There are more statements about Diana and Superman being peers. I just stopped by to look at the desperation of the scans posted in here of alternate characters being used as evidence for who would win. Lol... I'm sure Superman (I hope) have combat showing since his rebirth that proves whatever the topic is. Interesting.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I've read the last two pages. I don't think I understand what it is you want a ruling on. The Flashpoint universe? Thunder himself? What exactly?

U are god in this universe after all.

If we're going by Flashpoint, Wonder Woman already almost killed Captain Thunder and he was terrified of her.
Using that to highlight the difference between WW and SM doesn't really work. A "serious" Captain Thunder never got the chance to get his payback and only had a short stalemate with her.

Also, Carver should read Booster Gold's Flashpoint mini and see what kind of chaos he can bring.

I'll get my chair again.

😂

Originally posted by One Big Mob
If we're going by Flashpoint, Wonder Woman already almost killed Captain Thunder and he was terrified of her.
Using that to highlight the difference between WW and SM doesn't really work. A "serious" Captain Thunder never got the chance to get his payback and only had a short stalemate with her.

Also, Carver should read Booster Gold's Flashpoint mini and see what kind of chaos he can bring.

I'll get my chair again.

It was also mentioned that he was holding back in the first fight:
https://imgur.com/a/oZ32aDT

I don't think we can draw many conclusions from how they stack physically based on the first fight, which is what I'm trying to do here. Enchantress then turned him back and WW killed Billy, so we can't grasp too much from that 2nd exchange either [though Marvel certainly seems to restrain her beforehand....]. And we most certainly can't transfer that fight to a mainstream fight, since mainstream WW isn't that crazy, and Cap is more of a child, too.

So..you know. Since you're here, do you agree that we should treat Cap Thunder as being the same, since the gifts are unchanged and it's not an alternate Universe as we use it?

😂 @ the carver part, though.

@Bran... already have scans from the issues and posted it before. Lol... Booster stalemating Doomsday. I'm sure since alternate characters are equal to the real deal, this proves that Weapon H would destroy HP Doomsday in a single attack...

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3a6BqF9gAbo/V_yl-1DYmhI/AAAAAAAAQh4/ZUAE7G_-WwoDvMaFQBewMzwH772lgT8AgCLcB/s1600/10_09.jpg
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8YzpRBkoNV0/V_yl-0agXbI/AAAAAAAAQh8/jbANjhHUkE0F07P54NM7k73B_9U6jexdgCLcB/s1600/10_10.jpg
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1sK4xlxCpcE/V_yl_EOw8dI/AAAAAAAAQiA/xvU2cdQDLlgerVF_WBaAtaCyqid-TSFDQCLcB/s1600/10_11.jpg

And no, he did not evolve past this attack.

The above also proves Doomsday isnt solid mass like everyone thought. Glad alternate characters are the same as the real deal.

We have about 6 decades worth of comics, including a CANON fight written by Dan Jurgens, and 2 pages and 10 hours later, dumb and dumber are still trying to peddle this snake oil.

By convergence, Captain Thunder was clearly an alternate reality counterpart akin to Exiles Hyperion or an alternate Hulk. He was an alternate reality counterpart to Captain Marvel. This conversation has been dumb. If you want to argue it implies that DJ thinks Superman > CM personally, sure, whatever, but arguing it is in any sense valid, is ridiculous.

Originally posted by carver9
Booster stalemating Doomsday.

In either case, stop trolling and pick up a dictionary, if you don't know what the words you're using mean.

Doomsday being able to kill himself just shows he would decapitate Hulk in a single strike 👆

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You do know these characters don't exist, right?

So when writers write dialogue like that, they're not actually drawing upon Superman's actual memories and experiences, yeah? Lol.

Besides, if you want to go down that route, of COURSE he would remind Superman of Billy. He looks almost the same, down to that sash and cape thing. Same colour scheme and everything. But, a tangent.

Jane has the power of Thor, just like Thor did. You can't cross their feats/defeats.

Just in case you misread me AGAIN - I am NOT saying Jane is weaker than Odinson, lol.

GLs have different levels of willpower and imagination. Which affects their performances as GLs, despite having the same powerset and power source.

That's my point with Shazam/Thunder. Thunder is of a different mindset to Billy. Maybe he rushes in more because he's more 'strike first ask questions later'. Maybe he's more arrogant. Whatever. Point is still he's of a different character.

This is just a bunch of nonsense you threw together. What does Odinson, GLs or anything has to do with Thunder/Marvel? Are you actually going to say something on the topic or make a bunch of false equivalencies?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
We have about 6 decades worth of comics, including a CANON fight written by Dan Jurgens, and 2 pages and 10 hours later, dumb and dumber are still trying to peddle this snake oil.

By convergence, Captain Thunder was clearly an alternate reality counterpart akin to Exiles Hyperion or an alternate Hulk. He was an alternate reality counterpart to Captain Marvel. This conversation has been dumb. If you want to argue it implies that DJ thinks Superman > CM personally, sure, whatever, but arguing it is in any sense valid, is ridiculous.

https://postimg.cc/7CqKXQ28
https://postimg.cc/CB1mpB7c

Glad we agree that Doomsday isnt solid mass AND impaling him would kill him. Alt characters for the win.

Superman killed him by punching him. Why would ripping his own chest wide open with his bare hands be a surprise that it would kill him?

I hope they do an autopsy on your brain with a microscope when you die.

Pr just wants to see the forum burn

Originally posted by Philosophía
The point of contention is Captain Thunder.

In short:

The Flashpoint Universe is the mainstream DC Universe with some details changed. It's not an alternate Universe, it's not a parallel Universe, nothing like that.

The only difference between that, and any other Flash comic where he goes back in the past, is that the changes were many, and as such a lot of history was changed.

To that effect, somebody like Captain Thunder [Captain Marvel's name in that altered mainstream], who has the same power set as the normal Captain Marvel, would be just as strong, fast etc. since the Wizard bestowed to him the exact same powers, from the exact same beings. The difference is that he would have different life experience and and formed from multiple kids each holding 1 of the SHAZAM acronyms, so the transfer is not 1-on-1. But if the transformed Captain Thunder arm-wrestles Wonder Woman to a draw, his feat is transferred to the mainstream one, since he has been given the powers from the same gods as the mainstream Universe.

Or, to make it even simple - Aquaman. That Aquaman is, in terms of physical strength, the exact same person as non-Flashpoint Aquaman. It's just that his history was changed due to time-travel, so he's had different life experiences, is more hardcore, etc. But if he were to arm-wrestle non-flashpoint Arthur, it would be a draw, since they're the same guy, but with a different life experience.

etc.

Originally posted by Philosophía
😂

In short, Pr. Abilities are the same, but experience is different

So while Captain Thunder would be just as physically able, he'd fight differently.

I honestly thought there was more to it than that. TBH, I have no interest in making a ruling about it other than what mods have stated already, as I don't see the point. Alternate timelines still don't count as being the "main" version of the character, so feats aren't transferrable.

You can argue that Captain Thunder has similar, if not identical physical stats if you like, but in the end it won't mean anything. At least, not that I can see.