Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, it's not like Flashpoint is just an alternate history of the main earth and not an alternate world.Oh right.
Well am just saying. Using Captain Thunder as justification for Shazam isn't exactly proof.
I mean, I can show a picture of BRB to you. Quickly, which Avenger does he remind you of?
Correct answer is of course, Hulk, due to his massive schlong. But I would also accept Thor.
Does that mean Thor's feats/defeats transfer over to BRB, and vice-versa? No.
Counterpart =/= the same. And even if it did (after all, ALL GL rings are the same; X-23 is a genetic copy of Wolverine) we don't share feats.
'Reminding you of someone back home' =/= OMG Captain Thunder's feats are the same as Shazam!!
Why is this so hard for you to grasp?
Originally posted by XLR87T3
Not only is Wonder Woman faster than Billy, but Superman says out of his own mouth, that he and WW are evenly matched in RAW Might.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111148187/6652662-3548663405-23439.jpgBatman says that Superman is the only force on Earth that can restrain Wonder Woman. Not Captain Marvel, Superman himself.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111148187/6652664-8177257635-23439.jpgGreen Lantern's ring scans and tells him power levels. He says Wonder Woman operates in Superman's Hood. The ring is saying she's in Superman's POWER level.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111148187/6652665-7923022448-23439.jpgWhen Titus takes out Superman and Wonder Woman, he says the MIGHTIEST of the League have fallen.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111148187/6652667-6820656270-23439.jpgI'm sure there's statements about Captain Marvel being equal to Superman, but Wonder Woman has more. Billy would get wrecked by a serious Diana, he's below her
There are more statements about Diana and Superman being peers. I just stopped by to look at the desperation of the scans posted in here of alternate characters being used as evidence for who would win. Lol... I'm sure Superman (I hope) have combat showing since his rebirth that proves whatever the topic is. Interesting.
He is not exactly Captain Marvel but that is closer than any other comparison to him.
BRB is equal to Thor most of the times than not. All GL rings are not the same but counterparts of Hal Jordan would be equal most of the times. Same with Hulk when both heroes reborn hulk and ultimate hulk looked equal to 616 hulk. Ultimate mjolnir was equal to or more powerful than 616 mjolnir and War Thor was at least equal to 616 Thor.
How many times have you seen an alternate reality counterpart be shown as outright weaker than main earth character?
Originally posted by carver9
There are more statements about Diana and Superman being peers. I just stopped by to look at the desperation of the scans posted in here of alternate characters being used as evidence for who would win. Lol... I'm sure Superman (I hope) have combat showing since his rebirth that proves whatever the topic is. Interesting.
Originally posted by abhilegend
He is not exactly Captain Marvel but that is closer than any other comparison to him.BRB is equal to Thor most of the times than not. All GL rings are not the same but counterparts of Hal Jordan would be equal most of the times. Same with Hulk when both heroes reborn hulk and ultimate hulk looked equal to 616 hulk. Ultimate mjolnir was equal to or more powerful than 616 mjolnir and War Thor was at least equal to 616 Thor.
How many times have you seen an alternate reality counterpart be shown as outright weaker than main earth character?
So they can interchange feats? All heralds of Galactus, Wolverine/X-23, GLs, Jane/Odinson, etc?
Red Son Superman = OG Superman? Red Son Hal Jordan = God of Will Hal?
....Justice Universe?
Come on.
Why can't you just use comparisons from the comics themselves? I already showed two direct comparisons between WW and Shazam, both post Flashpoint, in canon.
WW is not bulletproof. Shazam is. Durability goes to Shazam.
They had a race. Shazam won. Speed (travel, at least) goes to Shazam.
Am sure we can keep going. Their performances against Aquaman, or Hercules, for example. Why bring up straw grasping like Captain Thunder (lol).
When the JLA met the Avengers, Hawkeye said the JLA reminded him of Squadron Supreme-lite. Does that mean JLA are Squadron Supreme lite? Lol.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So they can interchange feats? All heralds of Galactus, Wolverine/X-23, GLs, Jane/Odinson, etc?Red Son Superman = OG Superman? Red Son Hal Jordan = God of Will Hal?
....Justice Universe?
Come on.
Why can't you just use comparisons from the comics themselves? I already showed two direct comparisons between WW and Shazam, both post Flashpoint, in canon.
WW is not bulletproof. Shazam is. Durability goes to Shazam.
They had a race. Shazam won. Speed (travel, at least) goes to Shazam.
Am sure we can keep going. Their performances against Aquaman, or Hercules, for example. Why bring up straw grasping like Captain Thunder (lol).
When the JLA met the Avengers, Hawkeye said the JLA reminded him of Squadron Supreme-lite. Does that mean JLA are Squadron Supreme lite? Lol.
Wonder Woman is faster than him. The speed guide DC just presented even say this.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So they can interchange feats? All heralds of Galactus, Wolverine/X-23, GLs, Jane/Odinson, etc?Red Son Superman = OG Superman? Red Son Hal Jordan = God of Will Hal?
....Justice Universe?
Come on.
Why can't you just use comparisons from the comics themselves? I already showed two direct comparisons between WW and Shazam, both post Flashpoint, in canon.
WW is not bulletproof. Shazam is. Durability goes to Shazam.
They had a race. Shazam won. Speed (travel, at least) goes to Shazam.
Am sure we can keep going. Their performances against Aquaman, or Hercules, for example. Why bring up straw grasping like Captain Thunder (lol).
When the JLA met the Avengers, Hawkeye said the JLA reminded him of Squadron Supreme-lite. Does that mean JLA are Squadron Supreme lite? Lol.
I showed you the proof that Flashpoint wasn't an alternate reality but an altered main earth where power of Shazam was given to seven children rather than simply to Billy Batson. Mind showing where Captain Thunder was shown as weaker than Captain Marvel?
Originally posted by abhilegend
You're taking a simple concept and reaching it to absurd level. Not all counterparts are equal and derivative characters are rarely equal to the original but alternate history counterparts like Captain Marvel/Thunder where only the recepient of the power of Shazam was different? Yes, they are equal.I showed you the proof that Flashpoint wasn't an alternate reality but an altered main earth where power of Shazam was given to seven children rather than simply to Billy Batson. Mind showing where Captain Thunder was shown as weaker than Captain Marvel?
Sweet.
Jane Thor = Odinson. After all, it is merely the power of Thor where only the recipient is different.
John Stewart = some no-name Lantern. After all, it is merely the GL ring where only the recipient is different.
X-23 = Wolverine. After all, mutations come from your DNA, and it is only the recipient of said DNA which is different.
Red Son Superman is exactly the same. Only, due to time differences, he landed in Ukraine, not Kansas. Hell, it's even the same baby.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Sweet.Jane Thor = Odinson. After all, it is merely the power of Thor where only the recipient is different.
John Stewart = some no-name Lantern. After all, it is merely the GL ring where only the recipient is different.
X-23 = Wolverine. After all, mutations come from your DNA, and it is only the recipient of said DNA which is different.
Red Son Superman is exactly the same. Only, due to time differences, he landed in Ukraine, not Kansas. Hell, it's even the same baby.
X-23 actually had faster HF than Logan. She doesn't has his experience or adamantium of Logan hence their feats are not interchangable.
Hal's willpower is above John hence not the same.
Red Son Superman is an alternate universe Superman.
You are throwing random red herrings without proving anything. Standard Darksaint response when you don't have anything to say.
Come back when you have anything substantial to say.
King Thor was still mainstream Thor, even if the timeline was rewritten.
Captain Thunder is still in posession of the powers of the mainstream SHAZAM powers, even if the timeline was replaced.
Red Son Superman isn't the mainstream Superman whose timeline got replaced, but a completely different Superman, who happened to land in Russia.
If Red Son Superman was produced by Flash going back in time and replacing mainstream Superman's landing site, then he'd be mainstream Superman.
False equivalencies everywhere, DS.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Jane was equal to Thor, she even stalemated Hercules in strength. Who said she was lower than Thor?
Not me. My point is that we are going down the Hulk is Hulk route. If a thread says a certain character, it doesn't mean we can just throw others in.
X-23 actually had faster HF than Logan. She doesn't has his experience or adamantium of Logan hence their feats are not interchangable.
Hal's willpower is above John hence not the same.
Red Son Superman is an alternate universe Superman.
You are throwing random red herrings without proving anything. Standard Darksaint response when you don't have anything to say.Come back when you have anything substantial to say.
My point remains the same. Captain Thunder isn't Captain Marvel (Shazam) as named in OP.
He DEFINITELY isn't the REGULAR version. If you want to argue in round 2, that he's the most powerful version, go ahead.
Originally posted by ozz81
Both battle in the following1.Regular Versions
2.Most powerfull versions of eachWho wins in each of the above how and why?
Originally posted by Philosophía
King Thor was still mainstream Thor, even if the timeline was rewritten.Captain Thunder is still in posession of the powers of the mainstream SHAZAM powers, even if the timeline was replaced.
Red Son Superman isn't the mainstream Superman whose timeline got replaced, but a completely different Superman, who happened to land in Russia.
If Red Son Superman was produced by Flash going back in time and replacing mainstream Superman's landing site, then he'd be mainstream Superman.
False equivalencies everywhere, DS.
Originally posted by ozz81
Both battle in the following1.Regular Versions
2.Most powerfull versions of eachWho wins in each of the above how and why?
We can get a mod ruling on this.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Sure. I, for one, cannot wait to make King Thor inadmissible for mainstream Thor due to being a changed timeline, and treat him as a "What If?" Universe, with "What If?" Desak, "What If?" Hulk, etc.
We can get a mod ruling on this.
The Flashpoint Universe is the DC Universe, but with random events modifications. It's no an alternate timeline in the way "What Ifs" are. Unless we're arguing the Flash went back in time and changed the Wizard's Shazam's gifts, they'd be the same, since it's the same Universe.
I don't know how we got here from my first post, though, since I was mostly displaying writer intention. But...anyway.
Originally posted by XLR87T3
Billy is slow as f***
[IMG]*snip*
In running.
In flying?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Now onto speed:https://i.imgur.com/4Rltynz.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/GvywUIJ.jpgSeems Billy is faster 👆
